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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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DV: Advice from someone who turned their R around (so worth it)

337 replies

Abitwobblynow · 06/02/2012 04:19

This is an extract from KIM COOPER's book 'Through the Looking Glass' It is available on download and you search narcissismcured.com The comment at the end is from her now-grown-up husband explaining things from his point of view and what her behaviour did for him.

Step 4. If he is Intimidating Call The Police
Again, when you call the police, don?t expect miracles or be overly emotional with them. If they ask what you want them to do, say, ?I want you to tell him what the consequences will be if he continues to intimidate/threaten/assault me.? If he runs away when the police come, you can still talk to them and make sure it is on record and that he knows you reported it. Still, you need to insist that they talk to him directly about the consequences of his behaviour. While they are talking to you, try to do it out of his earshot but where he can still see you, so he is left wondering what has been said. (Say, ?Can I talk to you over there?? and point to where you want to move the conversation). This is a really important point that the police taught me. One officer talked to me for twenty minutes, leaving Steve waiting where he could see us. He said, ?See, he is wondering now what we are talking about and let him wonder!?
You need to let him know that you will not tolerate emotional or physical intimidation and that he is going to have to deal with the consequences, not you. If you have already gone in to the police and spoken to the head of D.V. (domestic violence) it will help a lot. Just knowing this person?s name will make the police attending respect you better. In my case I got an AVO (apprehended violence order) on Steve (where he could still remain living with us) and this was very worthwhile. This was in Australia and I don?t know if they have something similar where you live but I hope so. Once the order is in place, if he intimidates or hits you again, he will go straight to jail. If he needs to go to jail to see you are serious about this boundary, so be it. You mustn?t try and protect him from the consequences of his bad behaviour.
The court brought us back three times on the assault charge that precipitated the order. I found this frustrating, but in retrospect it was important. Each time they said Steve was not ready and had to prepare better. This taught him that his bad treatment of me was more serious than he had thought. The male judge and police officers in the court room looked very disapproving and that helped too! Many men who mistreat their wives grew up with men who did the same, so Steve seeing these men who were respected and in authority really disapproved of his behaviour was a big wake up call. Their disapproval really sunk in and made a big change in him. The judge also thanked me for my time and even commented how nicely groomed I was. This might have been because I had made the effort to make friends with the police, but whatever reason it was a very good day for me. They made me feel very solid, strong and supported and showed Steve he was on shaky ground.
Some men whose wives assault them do not feel they can get the police to help. If this is your situation, I think it is important that you do. You do not have to play victim in court or with the police, but instead you might want to say that you are concerned about her behaviour and that she needs to learn it is not okay and that you do not want to be forced to restrain her or play policeman in your own home. The truth is that women, just like men, can be very scary and dangerous when they are violent.
The AVO helped us because Steve then knew that if he intimidated, threatened or hurt me again (and in his case one of the provisions of the order was that he could not drink at home or
16
come home if he had been drinking) and I decided to call the police, he would be put straight in jail. This was important. He learned that he no longer had the upper hand and was not going to get away with sweet-talking anyone anymore. The power balance was now swinging in my favour.
If you can get a provision like this (that he can?t come home if he has been drinking, or something very easy to prove) in the AVO, it is really good, then it is not about the police taking sides. Once the AVO is in place, if you call and he is at home and has been drinking, he gets locked up, that?s it, no telling stories. He does not have the chance to charm anyone or provoke a fight, or confabulate and confuse things. I would still let Steve drink, but he knew there was a line in place and what would happen if he crossed it.
Fortunately, I never had to have Steve put in jail, but that was only because he knew I would call without hesitation if he ever tried to intimidate me again.
This will be a big disincentive to your partner continuing to disrespect you, but you have to be prepared to go through with it. Again, the only reason I didn?t have to have Steve put in jail was because he saw without a doubt I would do it. This is really important - as threats won?t work, he has to know you mean it, and that will probably involve you having the police over a few times. Don?t call them as a threat or because you are angry, call them if you feel you need protection. The sooner you do this and the calmer you are about it (?Honey, I don?t know how to handle you when you are like this so I think I am going to need to get the police here to talk to you?) the more effective this will be. You might also choose to quietly call first, then explain this, or he may try to stop you.
He might tell you he is not in control of his behaviour, but I am telling you that he only intimidates or puts people down who he thinks are weaker than he is. He?s not insulting big guys in bars, he makes decisions about who he can get away with this behaviour with. You need to become the wrong person for him to pick on.
This was quite troubling for me. The experience of court was horrible. I realised that I had made a terrible mistake and that the law was there to punish me. The D.V. officer from the police explained the terms of my Apprehended Violence Order and they were that I was to obey the terms or be thrown in jail. His words were simple and matter of fact, ?Prison is a tough place to survive.? That was enough for me, but I DID need to be told. Kim was sad the day we went to court, I could see that she was very disappointed that our relationship had come to this, but she kept a brave face and knew she was doing the right thing. This experience I will remember forever, and I cannot ever have my conviction for ?common assault? overturned. Society, through a magistrate, was able to make a statement to me that my behaviour was unacceptable. I had crossed a boundary that I obviously had no respect for. Steve

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 06/02/2012 08:34

You put the responsibility for the violence clearly on the shoulders of the victim, rather than where it should be, with the abuser.

Of course people don't like it. It is wrong.

MmeLindor. · 06/02/2012 08:38

Abit
Yes, women sometimes go on to have another damaging relationship, but that is generally due to their low self-esteem. Counselling the woman to help her recognise that is helpful. Telling her that she is partly to blame for her husband abusing her is not. How would that help, by making her feel even worse about herself?

Women who have been systematically abused for years find it difficult to leave their partners, but many do get away. Helping them to get out of the cycle of abuse is better than enabling their abuser to shift the blame.

Where does this idea come from that an abuser only abuses because the woman allows it to happen?

It is like saying, "She provoked me by calling me names". I could heap abuse on my DH and he would never ever hit me because he is not an abusive bastard.

TheLightPassenger · 06/02/2012 08:42

Do you really think this is a realistic scenario? that a violent abusive partner stands around meekly while the police come out, then gets chastised by the police. And the cycle continues till the man "grows up" and all is well? Angry.

ljgibbs · 06/02/2012 08:44

OP Never heard of copywrite?

noddyholder · 06/02/2012 08:45

The op is a man? This also reminds me of the brain washing that staying to get through it and save the marriage is somehow superior to leaving. All playing into the hands the abuser at the womans expense. You cannot work at violence

Anniegetyourgun · 06/02/2012 08:46

?Honey, I don?t know how to handle you when you are like this so I think I am going to need to get the police here to talk to you?

might work with a guy who isn't prepared to throw the telephone and/or the wife across the room to prevent her making that call.

Abitwobblynow · 06/02/2012 08:55

Why should a woman be beaten three times before her abuser is punished?

  • statistics are that women are struck many times before she calls for help. Like up to 100.

ljgibbs I clearly stated THE AUTHOR and THE TITLE of the book and the SOURCE. Do you want to give me a lecture on copyright, or are you projecting assumptions here

  • this is NOT blaming the victim. Victims (ie an ordinary human being, like me) feel shock, hurt, react by denying it/rationalising it and hoping it won't happen again.

Victims believe the remorse and the promise it won't happen again, and have him back.

Victims try and control the situation by blaming themselves for provoking him.

All things I would do if I am honest.

This person did not do those things. She implemented the consequence: called the police. Got a person in authority to talk to HIM about HIS behaviour. Stayed calm and explained the situation before hand not in the reactivity of the moment. Gave him the absolute shits and made him think twice about picking on her again or seeing her as weak. When it did happen again, consquences. Next time: jail and that was a promise.

Where is this blaming her for HIS behaviour, and where is this being a victim? Please point out using quotes, so you can show me the error of my ways and prove that you have carefully read the extract and not just doing an emotional kneejerking.

OP posts:
ljgibbs · 06/02/2012 09:09

It is insufficient simply to acknowledge the source of the materials.
For example, if you wish to use a piece of text or an image from someone else's website, then you must treat it as you would any other piece of copyrighted work; in other words gain permission (copyright clearance) to use the text. You have to approach the website owner and state precisely which piece of text you wish to use, and what you intend to do with it. If permission is granted then you can only use the materials for the purposes stated, and you can sued for infringement if you use them for other purposes.

TheLightPassenger · 06/02/2012 09:11

absolutey Annie. Or a man who doesn't calm down as soon as police approach and claim to be the victim of a madwoman (as the abused partner can look rather disshevelled and agitated, fear does that to people)

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 06/02/2012 09:15

Why would you or any woman want to fix a violent man just to have a relationship with him? Why is that relationship or any relationship worth that pain and hard work? Why do you need to keep the relationship?

This is tripe all associated with keeping women within relationships, making them do all the hard work, for the benefit of men.

WTFlike · 06/02/2012 09:16

If anyone followed your advice they'd probably end up dead.

TimeForMeAndDD · 06/02/2012 09:16

Oh yes, it's so fucking easy. Call the police and report him then use the threat of arrest to keep him under control. Great relationship!

This thread is making me feel feel sick!!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go away!

WTFlike · 06/02/2012 09:23

Mid-beating you say "Sorry darling, I just need to make a phone call, you've been too naughty I'm afraid." Cue getting the phone mashed into your eyeball and the cord around your throat.

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/02/2012 09:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/02/2012 09:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

enuffalready · 06/02/2012 09:29

Am also reporting this. Will report it for infringing copyright by copying so much of the book without permission - far more likely to have it deleted than objecting to the thread's content. [Bitter experience emoticon]

squeakytoy · 06/02/2012 09:33

The sooner you do this and the calmer you are about it (?Honey, I don?t know how to handle you when you are like this so I think I am going to need to get the police here to talk to you?) the more effective this will be. You might also choose to quietly call first, then explain this, or he may try to stop you.

What a load of fucking shite.

I called the police after my (now ex) partner head butted me and broke my nose.. I had barricaded myself in the bedroom at the time, and he was trying to break in the door to get to me..

"honey calm down" was not going to make a blind bit of difference to a man who is in a rage...

Lueji · 06/02/2012 09:44

I ensured there were boundaries and was very clear about it.

He threatened to kill us all.

I left.

BlackCatsAndPurpleDogs · 06/02/2012 09:48

Genuine question to the OP - what is YOUR personal experience of DV?
I bet none. no-one wants to hear what you have to say, so go away.

I bet you also post on weight loss forums with a load of shite about :

  1. eat less
  2. exercise
  3. there, wasn't that easy.
Hattytown · 06/02/2012 10:02

Wobbly please understand that I mean this with the best of intentions, because I know you are a woman who is very hurt by your husband's actions.

I think you search the internet desperate to find material that will validate your choice to stay with a narcissistic man. That is up to you and is your decision, but I think on occasion it contaminates the advice you sometimes give on threads.

This particular link is odious and harmful for all the reasons people have said. The advice, if followed, would be positively dangerous. Please stop posting links like this and think about why you're doing this?

RachelWalsh · 06/02/2012 10:06

What are you all about OP? Are you trying to sell something or what? That advice is atrocious.

I've just looked at that lunatic Kim Cooper's website and she actually has a book called the "love safety workbook" which is apparently "jam packed full of exercises For you to become more attractive and build lasting love"

So that's good to know, if your partner is abusing you it's because you've not made enough effort to be attractive to him. Fabulous advice.

Why are you attempting to peddle this shit here, a place where vulnerable women are looking for supportive, constructive advice? You're sick.

Hattytown · 06/02/2012 10:08

Oh and in case anyone is wondering, the police do want to get involved in reports of DV and there has been a positive arrest policy in place for years now in this country, regardless of whether the victim of DV wishes to make a statement or press charges.

Jux · 06/02/2012 10:20

Hmm I can really imagine a woman who is being beaten up staying calm and telling her beater that she's just going to call the cops now, so give me a minute to crawl calmly to the phone (as you've just broken my leg darling, it might take a little while for me to get there, and I'll probably make some noises that enrage you a bit more but, darling, try not to act on that and wait until I've made the call, oh and if you could possibly not damage me any more until the cops arrive to tell you they disapprove of what you've just done. Well then, darling, once they've gone you can carry on, but just hang on a bit for now..... ). Yeah sure.

singingprincess · 06/02/2012 10:22

This pair are unqualified, cynical, money grabbers, taking advantage of very vulnerable women, telling them what they want to hear.

They disgust me.

MadAboutHotChoc · 06/02/2012 10:27

Abit - I am saying this as someone who cares, I am a bit worried about you having seen some of your postings on here lately. I know you mean well but I can't help thinking that your current relationship problems are clouding your judgement when giving advice.

I have no experience of DV but even so I can see that what this book advises is appalling, unrealistic and at time down right dangerous.

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