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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

singingprincess · 28/01/2012 13:25

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

OP posts:
ThistlePetal · 28/10/2012 20:01

Thanks Salbertina, sorry to hear that you have been through this too. How I envy women who have a "normal" relationship with their mums! Do you have a better relationship now (sorry, haven't read all of this thread).

I am lucky to have a fabulous best friend who is so loving and warm, I often joke that she is the mother I never had. She has taught me so much about loving relationships: I see how she is with her own family, her friends, and her support of me has been unstinting :). She has had to convince me that I am worthy of such support! My separation is very new (last weekend), and I'm finding that lots of friends are supporting me right now, and my DB is trying ever so hard to support, while my mother looks on (or looks away) with that faint look of disgust and contempt.

I'm also going to a counsellor - ostensibly to help me sort through my feelings of being newly single and a new lone parent. But as ever! My mother is taking up most of my brain space....

Salbertina · 28/10/2012 20:28

Thanks,Tp. No, NC so no relationship- she didn't reply to my email, got df to instead. Realize how v dysfunctional and actually weak she is from that. Funny, she used to seem omnipotent and SO scary when i was a teen. She's losing her power through her own appalling behaviour, finally. Grin

Seriously though, things must be pretty raw for you if only separated last weekend. Glad you have such support - you definitely deserve it and doubtless need right now. Take care and hope posting on here helps.

aokay · 29/10/2012 23:10

anyone else think that as children of abusive/dysfunctional families we get blamed by those who had better relationships/ supportive parents? - both my exh for instance have said my parents could'nt have been that bad?, and now I'm' judged'[ as a single parent for 'not having close family'.
Have had strong feeling I've been looked down on for not hving a close family by various people over the years; second divorce after long marriage and second time my DF has thrown all support behind abusive ex without even having a conversation with me about anything - said wants contact with my dc's thru my ex - hard to deal with when going thru acrimonious breakup. End of my attempts to keep a relationship (however poor) going/ I don't deserve to be judged 'the guilty party' by my father who has no real idea of anything in my life at all- ex left me in bad circumstances and attempted to remove our dc's with no provocation. mother so afraid I might want something has not been in contact at all and I don't expect her to be. I doubt I will ever lose the sorrow that comes from being an unloved child but having my own dcs has been enormously healing for me; I have an outlet for my own love and they love me back. My dc's also make me realise that I was'nt an awful kid at all and that actually my family situation was very sad for reasons having nothing to do with me.. Every time I hug my kids, read to them, play games or just listen to their day I realise that having none of that as a child myself hasn't stopped me from being able to give or receive love. the only thing I find hard is the yearning for unconditional love that I think we only get (or not)_ as children - if we havent had it it makes us vulnerable and sad - I'm not stronger because of my neglect and abuse, I'm left carrying a well of sadness around which I hide but can't ever lose. Plus I have other people wonder why I don't see my parents, or why they stay in touch with my exh - inference being I must have done something wrong- no actually they have by not giving me any love or support and then sabotaging my self esteem as an adult (or trying to). Am of an age where I can anticipate my parents dying and also realise will just feel lliberated when they and their partners do - and no I don't think Im awful for that as fundamentally they are not very pleasant people. Ive spent years and years of my life trying to please and its all been pointless as my existence annoyed them - can't get round that one!
Not going to divulge all history now but feel very humbled by some of the stories on this thread and see the common theme of depression and poor self esteem that comes from being treated so badly by family; my self criticism/dislike bites me when Im under attack in other ways - from exh, stressed or experiencing poor health (which I do often as have congenital problems and complex health problems). I do remind myself then that I have survived and have gone through life trying hard to be a decent, kind person. We have to throw off the control and shut down that nasty voice telling us we deserve whatever misfortunes we have, that we're horrid, unlovable whatever - I don't hate my parents anymore but I also can see then for what they are and what they did to me. I'm blessed with wonderful ds'c and altho I don't have a partner, feel lucky for all the love in my life. I do wonder if my toxic family have made it impossible for me to find a loving partner and form good relationships, as both my marriages have been abusive - bet I'm not alone in that one on this thread? Hugs to everyone -

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 30/10/2012 09:07

aokay, in my experience the only people who have made light of my abusive marriage and inadequate parents are those who I believe to be in denial about their own dysfunctional family relationships.

The vast majority of people I have discussed my ex or my parents with, and who have healthy outlooks on relationships, completely respect my feelings and my actions wrt to ex and parents.

So I would say: those people trying to minimise your feelings are probably doing so because they are unable to face their own issues.

Salbertina · 30/10/2012 09:13

I think many with what they see as "normal" relationships are disconcerted -even challenged - by anything else. Sad

Im now very careful who i tell as most people don't get it. Most people haven't had to/had the strength to address their own shadow side and don't appreciate the reminder.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 30/10/2012 09:18

the only thing I find hard is the yearning for unconditional love that I think we only get (or not)_ as children - if we havent had it it makes us vulnerable and sad - I'm not stronger because of my neglect and abuse, I'm left carrying a well of sadness around which I hide but can't ever lose.

Here's what we can do, though:

  • Be aware that we are vulnerable and sad, and take care not to put ourselves in positions where that vulnerability can be exploited. This in itself is an act of self-love that can do a lot to shrink that well of sadness and feelings of unlovability.
  • Show ourselves unconditional love. It was our parents' rsponsibility, they failed, now it is our responsibility. We can't ask anyone else to fill that void. But I have found that we can do a lot to fill that well ourselves. Like you, I don't think I will ever completely get rid of that sadness, but after a year and a half of solid effort to confront all my demons and build coping mechanisms, I find that my self-hatred has shrunk to a tiny speck that only flares up from time to time under stress, but which I know I can come back from.

Your imagery of the well speaks to me: I often visualise my self-esteem as a container that was pierced full of holes, so no matter what I did, I could not keep it "full" at a healthy level. Therapy helped me patch those holes, so now the things I do that boost my self-esteem "fill" the container to a level that keeps me happy, and stay that way. Certain stressors can weaken those patches and I can "spring a leak" in self-confidence, but I now know how to patch it back up again.

So we can go from an unmanageable situation, to a manageable one. Not an ideal one, but manageable.

Salbertina · 30/10/2012 20:37

Hotdamn, v good advice! Shall try to work on that.

Firsttimer7259 · 30/10/2012 21:50

Just to feed in on Hotdams point. I am also taking time to 'self actualise' recognising that I was not allowed to do this as a child/teen and that its left a blank centre in me thats vulnerable to depression, anxiety and exploitation. So I spend a lot of time discovering what I like. A lot of it looks trivial from the outside perhaps - like deciding what I want to look like etc. Buying music I like. But I couldnt do that and find I have to actively give myself permission to become myself and slowly it is working.
Having a child and not wanting to pass this stuff on to her makes me so motivated to do these things. To love her as I should ahve been loved. But also to fill the gaps in my sould so I am not looking to her to do that for me. I really notice that unlike earlier periods of counselling where I wallowed a lot in the past, having my DD makes me look to the future in really concrete ways that I think are just the most wonderful thing thats happened to me. Shes helping me become myself so that I can be ready to help her become who she is.

garlicbaguette · 30/10/2012 22:10

Brilliant post, Hotdamn, I'm borrowing your self-esteem container idea!

Firsttimer, what you said about deciding how you want to look resonates with me at the moment. My latest self-project is developing my narcissism! Even typing that feels a little "over the edge" to me. My past, extremely high standards of grooming were all about not being good enough, minimising flaws, trying to be acceptable and so on. Now I'm learning to love myself exactly as I am, and starting to experiment with some healthy vanity.

Funny - I've been called vain and self-loving for so long (as insults), now I'm aspiring to make it true! [hconfused]

Firsttimer7259 · 31/10/2012 09:02

Hey garlic - am totally with you on that. I noticed how much of what I thought about my appearance was about looking 'acceptable' or 'appropriate' and none of it was really about me or self expression/self love. Self care is something I have to actively aloow myself. I function well - actually at a v high level - to meet external standards (esp work) and then go into stasis when those demands are gone becuase I actually have no real expereince of living for myself rather than doing stuff so others accept me.

submarinegirl · 31/10/2012 10:45

firstimer - " I am also taking time to 'self actualise' recognising that I was not allowed to do this as a child/teen and that its left a blank centre in me thats vulnerable to depression, anxiety and exploitation. So I spend a lot of time discovering what I like. A lot of it looks trivial from the outside perhaps - like deciding what I want to look like etc. Buying music I like."

Amazing! I have been doing exactly the same thing - buying up music that I wouldv'e been in to as a teenager if a) I'd had the confidence to like it and b) if I'd had the friends to share it with. It's always been an enormous hole in my 'soul', just not know ing who 'I' am, but not ever being aware of it until now.

hollie25 · 31/10/2012 11:23

I?ve been trying to find the courage to post on here for a long-time but I guess I?m not quite there yet as I have never been able to talk to anyone other than my DH and my very bias DGP about my own upbringing.

I?ve been reading this thread for a long time and the stories comments and advice on here has helped me come to terms with a lot of the issues with my own childhood. I'm sure I'm not the only one lurking on this thread trying to make sense of it all.

Thank you all for the wise words! Thanks

baytree · 02/11/2012 09:59

Posted a while back to say how this thread is helping me enourmously but haven't yet had the courage/am still confused to write my back history. firstimer and submarine girl. Your words about having a blank centre and not knowing who I am ring so true. My father I now recognise has narcissitic traits/is a narcissist and as I was moulded into responding to his needs I never really truelly knew who I was/am. Am starting to find out and I really like me. it is much better than the moulded version because this person is free.

financialwizard · 02/11/2012 15:58

Wow, I was pointed to this thread y Atilla because I posted about my parents today. I have read a some of the pages but not all because, frankly, they make me want to cry. A lot of what has been posted could be my mother to a tee, and my father.

I will post more later but I am not sure I could bear it right now because I am at the start of my journey and still feel I am being unreasonable.

baytree · 02/11/2012 18:09

Dear Financialwizard

Big hugs to you. It is easy to feel unreasonable because often the perpetrators turn into victims and get the other members of the family to side with them. I have had wobbles-am I really thinking straight? Am I normal?etc.. it has helped me enourmously to write a diary as then I can look back and see entries like: "I'd told him (my father) calmly I would be ok and I would sort out my own life and I am doing fine and his response was he hammered on the car windows and doors wanting me to tell him what I am doing next and that I was an utter fool" And all this in front of my 5 year old who sat in the back seat.
and "we met him at the airport and because my 4 year old child didn't recognise him and was shy he said well dont talk to me then and made a fist at her"

AGlassHalfEmptyNoLonger · 03/11/2012 02:44

This is huge (1708 words), but semi cathartic, and a good start for when I get some counselling. Don't worry if you don't read it, it is for me more than anyone. There is enough information in here to identify me, but you know what, I don't care. If it is read, maybe eyes will be opened, and life can't get much worse, cos of DS.

Another newbie to the thread, although I have been on a slow journey this last 12 to 18 months or so realising that my mum is far from perfect. I don't know if toxic is the right word but I know I will find the support on this thread, whatever the label. Part of my problem is working out what really is normal, and what isn't. But I am slowly seeing more and more things that are wrong, or off.

It all came to a head, maybe even 2 years ago when she threatened to call social services on me for neglecting my son. Up until that point, although our opinions weren't always the same, we didn't argue, or more to the point, I didn't talk back. I'm 33 now, so I wasn't young, but it just wasn't done. When my ds was younger I remember a memorable time when she told me I was a better parent than she had ever been, but all of a sudden, out of the blue, I had x time (2 months maybe, I can't remember) to pull my socks up or that was it. And mum has always done as she said. And we grew up knowing that if mum found out we had committed a crime, she would be marching us down to the police station and handing us in herself. And I knew I was struggling with ds, and although I didn't admit it to her, I knew if SS came round, they would be giving me support at the very least. I wasn't going to say that though, I just sat there, shocked. Didn't say anything.

Anyway, a couple of months passed, things must have improved in her eyes, as she didn't carry out the threat, and then she made the same threat again, that she was going to call SS and have my son taken off me. This time I had an answer. I didn't get angry, I didn't change the tone of my voice, i just calmly asked her how she was going to manage that, given that they didn't take Baby Peter or Shannon Matthews away, given that she had no rights to keep my son away from me, and that my house wasn't the worst by a long shot. I didn't get an answer. A few days later I actually got a, grudging, apology. She had spoken to my Dad (works in the police) and he had confirmed there a lot worse houses than mine around. It was followed by "That doesn't make it right though".

After the first time she made the threat, I all but cut myself off from her. Went from a telephone call most nights to once a week or so. I went from going round two or three times a week, to going round maybe once a week. And as time went on, I started thinking about my past. Remembering how my sister (8 years younger than me, 5 years younger than my brother) was spoilt beyond belief, compared to us older two. She was an accident, the one that wasn't meant to be. The one that arrived relatively shortly before my dad (then in the forces) went on a tour of Ireland, leaving my mum to bring the three of us up alone. And the one she doted on, always did, and it feels like she still does. We stopped getting cuddles around the time my sister was born - mum had an abusive background and she says it is because we were getting to the age where she felt it inappropriate, because of her background. My sister, however, still has cuddles now, long cuddles, and she is in her mid twenties.

My sister got to watch programmes at a much younger age than we did - because we were watching them and so mum couldn't censor it for my sister the way she did for us. She went to bed later than we did at her age - this is denied or an excuse found, but not satisfactorily explained. Even now she seems to be the golden child and I am fed up with it.

My mum also has a nasty habit of delivering criticisms and put downs a lot, but never in company, because that isn't polite and makes it look like she hasn't the perfect family (ahem, I am dx'd aspie, my brother dx'd dyspraxic. If they were assessed, I suspect my brother, sister and mum would all get a dx of aspergers as well, but oh no, not in her perfect family). No, out in public we get a look, then in private later we get the little comments, things that wouldn't seem too bad even if in public, but it is every time she notices something she doesn't approve of.

We grew up distanced from my mums side of the family, and now she has all but cut herself off from them, I feel she considers herself the white sheep of a black family. And although with the knowledge of some of her upbringing I can understand the not wanting to have contact, she has done her best to bring us up not wanting contact either, running her family down in little comments and remarks here and there. And she very nearly managed as well. I am the only one with even semi-regular contact with my maternal family. Yet they both feel like they are not good enough for my dads side of the family. So any time we go out for a meal or anything she takes us out and buys us all new clothes, ones that she feels suit our figures (I am petite but on the large size, she prefers clothes that flatter my figure - i.e. hide the fat) so we are not turning up in old clothes or possibly even ones they have seen before (I'm sure they would remember - not! We see them once in a blue moon) And if we don't agree with her choice, we go around and around until we either find an outfit we both agree on, or until I give in cos I am fed up with it all and go for the best of the selection we have found.

There is so much more, but too much to think of now.

My brother has to have the best and be the best at everything, always has. My sister feels as the youngest she is never going to be the first to do anything, so has to try and outshine us, cos she feels that is the only way she can be noticed. My mum, well enough said, apart from the fact that black is black and white is white. Once her mind is made up, it's never going to change. My Dad probably does enable my mum, but you know what, I have always been a Daddys girl, and always will be. He is in the process of retiring, and I am going to see if we can start spending some time alone, maybe twice a month, just me and him, cos I miss my Dad.

I have recently realised that what my mum always levelled at us as the worst thing we could possibly be - just like her family (as in her mum, dad, brother and sisters) - is actually what I am and who I have always been. I have recently got to know her youngest sister, my aunt, really well and discovered I haven't gained an aunt, but a big sister. I am so much a member of my 'mothers maiden name' family. And that is probably why she as such a downer on me. Because I am everything she didn't and doesn't want in her family.

My self confidence isn't bad but my self esteem is low and my sense of self worth is shot to hell. I cannot believe I am worthy of anything good, because good things never last, if they happen at all. I now have a (very) new partner who is helping me with all this and more besides. Since I have known him, I have been signed off sick for longer than I have been at work. Signed off with depression. An illness which, according to my mum doesn't exist, you just need to pull your socks up and get on with life. But dp is helping me. Helping me believe in myself. Being there for me. Driving the 45 minutes each way to come and cuddle me for 3 hours, because I was in such a state that I needed cuddles.

My aunt is also supporting me. Despite only recently (end of August) moving to the area from over 200 miles away. When I broke, she insisted on me stopping at her house, with her family, my family, making sure I slept and ate, even if that was just a third of a bowl of soup and a slice of bread. Or cooking all the fish fingers she had in, cos I fancied fish fingers and had barely eaten in about 48 hours.

My mum is still in my life, just, along with the rest of my family, because of my son. Ds has had a lot of problems in his life, and dotes on his maternal extended family. Stopping him seeing them will cause much more issues than allowing contact. And I even give him contact without me being there, as I cannot stand spending any more time than I have to there. I just make sure that I provide a very secure house here, in which he isn't put down, he is loved and supported in every way, and that he knows that being criticised and put down unfairly is not fair and not something I will back my mum up on.

IncogKNEEto · 03/11/2012 08:23

Hello, just poking my head in the door, I will try and post later when I can organise my thoughts a little better, I've been directed here from my thread yesterday about my difficult relationship with my Mum. Sadly, I think that maybe I belong on this thread, sorry for everyone else who is struggling with difficult family relationships Sad

financialwizard · 04/11/2012 16:26

Ok I am going to have a go at typing out what my mine and my mothers relationship has been like over the years. I don't think it is as bad as some people that have had the strength to post here, but I need to get it off my chest - so feel free to flick past.

My Mum and I have had a difficult relationship for as long as I can remember. There were lots and lots of arguments between my parents about me when I was young and as I got into my teens the arguments started between my mother and I. I was a very head strong teen. Anyway it culminated in me running away at 15 to London which resulted in me being raped. When I returned home Mum screamed and shouted that she had had a sleepness night (only away one night) and that she hoped I was happy that she was so unhappy. So I went through the medical tests to make sure I was ok on my own. When I eventually got the all clear (HIV testing took 3 months) she stopped screeching about how unhappy I made her.

At 17 I moved out to work away. During that time I got my GCSE results. She stopped speaking to me - they were passes but not the A grades she wanted (bragging rights I guess).

I moved back home at 18 for 2 years, during which time there were numerous comments about my weight and lots of arguments about my lifestyle. I would like to say that I was working and paying her rent at this time. I also went to the gym every night and only went out drinking twice a month.

At 21 I had had enough of the job that I was doing and wanted to go and train to be a riding instructor. I talked to my parents about it but my Mum (and Dad) were set against it, so I arranged everything (including accomodation) and packed my bags one day and left. My Mum did not speak to me for two years, and banned my Dad, or any of my family, from having anything to do with me. Dad was very upset (which broke my heart) and sided with my Mum. It wasn't until I had my son that my Mum really started speaking to me properly again.

I got married at 21, and bought a house at 24. When I told my Mum I was pregnant with my eldest she said that I should have an abortion as I was not responsible enough. Six months after my son was born I moved back in with my parents because I was getting a divorce and I had no where else to go. This is when things started to get really bad. Her first words were 'I told you so'. From then on in she started to make me feel useless. She tried to take over the parenting of my son, I was not allowed to cook, if I cleaned then she would do it again (ensuring I was there when she did it). Everything I did was wrong, or 'You should have checked with me first, I would have helped you'. I lived with her for 7 months until my Granddad (Mum's Dad) gave me a life line and helped me to buy a house. Trouble is that my Mum also put some money in, so it was held over me. Anything she didn't like she would make noises about me repaying the money - which she knew I could not afford. She then started to ask about every minute detail with regard to my finances. Every time she spoke to me it was an interrogation no matter what I did. I took to lying to her occasionally, but I am not a good liar so almost always got found out. I took my son on holiday to France once. I told Mum I was taking the car. I took my motorbike instead, but I had to lie and she found out many years later and gave me a lecture on the dangers of motorbikes (Dad used to own motorbikes).

Then I met my husband. We got married and moved overseas. Whilst overseas we had peace, apart from when she would call and start her interrogations. I quickly fell pregnant with our daughter. She then started interrogating me as to whether I would be having anymore. That I should not have anymore and then started trying to disect my marriage. She continued to interrogate me regarding our finances, and until Friday still did. Friday I called her to see how her operation went. She started asking how much money we have in savings, how much the work we are having done to our new place is costing, what our bills cost, etc. When I challenge her or try to divert the conversation she presses harder and harder until I either snap or give in.

There are so many times she has gone on about my weight, money, what work to do on the house, anything.

She even tries to arrange mine and my husbands social life and people to do things for us where we are moving to (which we are more than capable of doing).

I feel very oppressed and she makes me feel very low (not depressed).

She also has this uncanny nack of making everything about her. I sold my house recently. It was let until the early part of this year and after that I asked her to go in every couple of weeks to make sure the place was still standing (we were still overseas) but she took it upon herself to go in every other day, mow the lawn all that kind of stuff. It sold relatively quickly but took a long time to go through. When we were coming to the end of the process I said that I felt really stressed by it all (buyers clueless and causing all sorts of unnecessary stress for us) and she said 'It isn't all about you you know, I have been really stressed out by this. All the work I have had to do, etc'. She said this to my Nan's next door neighbour and he pulled her up on her comments, she was genuinely offended and ranted about it for weeks.

Sorry this has turned into a huge rant, but I do feel somewhat better for it.

financialwizard · 04/11/2012 16:27

Dad has also always said that Mum is a glass half empty type of woman, that really is an understatement.

posyplum · 04/11/2012 17:41

Hello, just marking my place, as I have just found this thread and wow - think I may belong on it! Am going to catch up on all your stories first...

financialwizard · 04/11/2012 17:52

Feel so up and down at the moment. I want to phone my Mum to see if she is ok after having an operation but I know if I do that she is going to start ranting about the house and money again. This is harder than I thought.

Salbertina · 04/11/2012 19:43

Fw- am so so sorry to hear that you were raped...and so young Sad ... Does yr dm know??? This must affect the dynamic and how you feel about yourself still...

In terns of her raising house/£ issues could you try saying " thanks for your concern but were dealing with it" and change tge subject?

financialwizard · 04/11/2012 20:13

My Mum does know and tbh made it all about how she felt about it. She did send me to counselling but I am not sure it did anything apart from make me feel worse. I think she did sent me so she could say that she did something iyswim. I have just buried all the emotion wrt the rape tbh. It happened a long time ago and I just want to forget about it.

Wrt the financial issues she is like a dog with a bone x barrister. She would continue to question me until she has run me round in rings.

BiddyPop · 05/11/2012 08:22

I am back and still in 1 piece after dealing with my mother over the weekend. I had delegated a lot of the organising of mum's 65th birthday to another sister who is living near home. I fielded calls from all siblings, but didn't take the total lead (lead from behind, prodding people along, rather than being the person doing it all).

Funnily enough, Mum loved having dinner in the restaurant, and her present, and was in good form all night. (If I am seen as the active organiser, it is never good enough).

And I refused to allow her get any digs in over the weekend. (And as I was feeling crappy enough about the way my own birthday turned out, she was lucky she didn;t try much - that was DH's fault though, not hers).

Learning to disengage from it all seems to be helping a little...

financialwizard · 05/11/2012 09:33

Looks like a step in the right direction there Biddy

I am finding it really hard today. I just want to hide from everyone and have already cancelled on my Dad's friend who I let down last week (with regard to decorating - something else I felt pushed into).

Neither of my parents are speaking to me at the moment. Only my Nan and my Mum's friend is because they understand why I made the decision I did. Although even if they were speaking to me all they would do is push me into making a decision I don't want.

My husband is coming home next weekend and has to pass their area on the way. He asked me yesterday if I want him to go and visit them and see how the land lies but I told him I don't want him to. I feel very torn because I feel like I am in the wrong but I didn't even ask for their help they just ambushed me with it and bullied me into taking it. Now I expect they think I have cut my nose off to spite my face. Why can't they just realise that I am a capable adult, not an incapable child who can't be trusted.

I hate myself for being so weak with them. I cannot believe it has taken me this long to realise that they are just as bad as my first husband.

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