"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

Sarah Well done for sending back the card.

I too have a sibling who is the epitome of the Golden Child. My brother cut me off when I told him I didn't want to know when my mother was ready to make up.
He apparently recently got married to wife No3 and she has just given birth to his child No5. That's 5 DC with 4 women. I know my mother will have been over the moon about this. When I wanted to get married again to my wonderful DH (I've been divorced after Hubby No1 ran off with OW) my mother was disgusted with me that I wanted to have my wedding reception in a hotel as it was only my 2nd wedding (DH had never been married before).

Like all Golden Children your sister will be enjoying the attention from your parents and by the sounds of it is full of her own self importance. The way I look at it is that they are all welcome to each other. I can't live life in the whole pretence of it and that's just what it is, none of it is real. They are not being true to themselves.

perspective I apologise if I misinterpreted you but I thought you might be hesitating from going NC. The email being representative of that decision and the fear of the finality of it all.
My sharing the comment with you about the clin psych was because I remembered feeling incredibly shocked by the comment myself at the time. It was like a wake up call for me in a way because mostly when you live through the abuse it becomes normalised especially when there is a bystander minimising it. So I know for me it has messed with my connection with my instincts. ie 'what if their right and I am making a fuss about nothing'. Im not saying that was your thought process by the way but just an example of how skewed thinking can become. So when I got asked that question it felt quite shocking to me because suddenly it was like seeing it through an outsiders eyes. Sorry dont think Im explaining myself too well??
The psych was basically making sure she knew the extent of any contact my dc's had with my abusers because any contact meant they would be at risk.

sorry they're not their too many
Ps you dont have to send anything if you dont want to btw. I didnt send any formal email when I went nc. That way I could deal with it a day at a time.. whatever gets you through it.
You dont owe them an explanation, you owe them nothing! So do whatever meets you're needs and gets you through it.

Thanks for that therealsmithfield. I have had a huge amount of self doubt over the past week or so, due to the contact my mum is making. Your comments do help actually. My anger is subsiding now, and tbh I didn't think it would as I've been so on edge since my mum started her little 'campaign'. It started with a letter with a cheque to buy DD's school shoes. Then a card with money for her, with a big note about how much they love her and miss her and hope to see her soon. Then I've had a text about my mum getting a new puppy in september and how she wants her GD to meet her. It's the endless laying on of guilt that's killing me right now, coupled with the absolute denial about what happened. It's a total head fuck tbh. But, thank you for sharing that. It helps me to re-focus, and not give into to the guilt and self doubt.

I think my email is what I want to say to them, but to actually say it, or send the email, means I will get either or both of them turning up at my door, and I don't want that as my DD will be exposed to what's been going on.

Mampam that's how I look at it, they are welcome to each other, a trio of dysfunctional narcs.

I have my DDs, who are wonderful, beautiful natured girls, and we are very close. I would never treat them the way I have been treated. My main focus in life is to ensure that this cycle of abuse ends here. If that's allI achieve in life, that is more than enough for me.

I suspect everyone else on this thread feels exactly the same way. We are the winners, not them. We have good lives, we treat people properly, and hopefully that is what we will be remembered for.

Amen to that SarahStratton

Hello all - can't sleep so I have a question to put to you.

I have been reading Beverly Engels' "Breaking the Cycle of Abuse". On parents, she encourages forgiveness through understanding that your parents did to you what was also done to them in childhood.

Well, I fully understand that they are doing to me what was done to them in childhood. And that just makes me even MORE conscious of what inadequate individuals they are! Why do to your own children what you pertinently know hurt you like hell? It's not like they aren't aware that their own parents' actions were harmful: my mom can't shut up about a) what a neglected and put-down daughter she was by her own parents, and b) what a bitch my dad's mother was. So they KNOW. And then turned around and did the same thing to their own children.

This makes me feel less forgiving, not more. Thoughts?

t's not like they aren't aware that their own parents' actions were harmful: my mom can't shut up about a) what a neglected and put-down daughter she was by her own parents, and b) what a bitch my dad's mother was. So they KNOW. And then turned around and did the same thing to their own children.

Because they don't know how to do it differently?

That's the only thing I can think of. But when they do it to one child and not all children in the home, well it can't be that can it.

Agree, guess we all default to parenting how it was modeled to us, sadly. Feel I have to be hyper vigilant in this regard.

Perspective sounds to me like your Mother is trying to buy your DD's love and is really turning up the guilt factor on you. Getting a new puppy and wanting DD to meet it!!! That says to me she is trying to paint herself as the wonderful GM whilst undermining your feelings the same time.

My mother is an expert at this. She reels in the allies around her and is super duper nice to everyone, has everyone fooled with it but it makes people question my motives because she is lovely and isn't as bad as I've made out.

My DC's get cards too that say "we miss you, we love you" (shame she could never say it to her own daughter) and have over the top amounts of money in them. I just maintain my no acknowledgement stance as I know that even if I wrote them a letter telling them to F-off they would see it as encouragement or as a victory that they were getting to me and I will not give my mother the satisfaction.

Think of it rationally Perspective you know what she is doing and what the purpose of her "campaign" is, to guilt you into submission. Stay strong

Sarah You hit the nail on the head........the cycle stops here, with us. We won't do the same to our children.

How to stop passing on the abuse- I often wonder about this..
I really have tried to have a different relationship with my own daughter. I would love to be the kind of mum that when she is in her 20's we could become friends.

I really worry about this. I spent years denying that my mum was/is not the wonderful mother that my friends had...someone who is the first port of call for advice, a shoulder to lean on, their biggest cheerleader.

I know I didnt have that relationship but thought it was my fault. As every thing else that went wrong was laid at my door.
I read recently something to the effect that my strength was what my mother had to attack. Because she is a people pleaser, she tried to make me like that too (and I used to try try try to be one). So because that was the only way she knows to 'make' people like her, then she tried to make me like that too (out of mis-guided love?).

HotDamn is it worth getting that book....as I really really dont want to be that parent (dont think I am but I have no proper frame of reference IYKWIM).

I am very lucky. I had, and still have, a close relationship with my XPILs. My XMIL is one of the kindest, and most loving people I have ever met. She's a fantastic Grandmother, and I have tried my hardest to model myself (as a parent) on her. She's firm, but kind and loving. She's always there for me, and is a bottomless pit of time and cuddles.

Knowing her made me realise how dysfunctional my family was. My XPILs dislike my parents and sister, and have stuck up for me, and always been there for me.

As far as I am concerned, they are my family, they are my parents. I've had more love from them than I have had from my parents.

Sarah thats lovely. I would be so proud to be described in those terms.

Indeed, great to that that. I also get on really well w MIL- Shes warm, fun and affectionate to the extent that my therapist recommends I model myself on her to parent myself and mg kids...

Your therapist sounds fab, and very sensible. Mine met my MIL, and thought she was lovely. He also met my mother, and threw her out when he caught her screaming vitriol at me. This is when I was hospitalised with raging PND.

Yes think he's good, still a little wary but like that he's holistic, got Buddhist tendencies and is widely read..
Yours sounds brave (as do you!) for getting yr dm in the room, wow and to throw her out! Thank god for lovely MILs hey, ex or otherwise!

Just reminded me though, think "toxic parents" recommend a kindly older female therapist- mother like figure. Any experiences of that? Had 2 (female) therapists before and not sure I'd have chosen male therapist, just happened that way...just pondering.

Am rather distraught at the moment.

My Dad used to be quite a scary aggressive man,
smashing dinner plates when he didn't like the food,
punching my mum in the eye,
punching me out of the way if I tried to stop him,
screaming in your face 'I am going to smash your face in now' and I have memories of him trying to run my mum down with the car.

On top of that my mum seemed to react to it so, randomly she would wake me up in the night by ripping the covers off and she'd be standing there with a pair of scissors, and would come at me as if to stab me, but just stab the bed or ruin something precious of mine or chase me around the bedroom. Presumably this was because something bad had happened between my parents.

I was so terrified that if things kicked off, if he pinned my mum down in the kitchen or a fight started between them I would run upstairs grabbing my sister on the way and we'd creep out and sit on the roof, or jump down into the garden, (we lived in the middle of nowhere) and hide in a tree till it seemed safe to come back.

About 8 years ago I actually had a confrontation with my Dad which seemed to totally shock him, he thought I'd come to say how terrible my mother's behaviour was!!!!!!!!!!
but I had come to tell him how terrible his behaviour was and that he should try to deal with these situations better, if there was an argument it needs to be settled better, it's not fair to me and my sister who live there. Anyway he told me to fuck off to my bf in London which I did do. Still in London now.

When I had DS, both my parents disowned me after I ignored their request that I have an abortion.

Then we reunited.

My mum reasoned that I need my parents and my DS needs grandparents. My mum is increasingly reasonable and says she wants to try to have a relationship with me.

My Dad is unable to apologise or change, I think he must be mentally ill.

We end up in the same vicious circle except I am so hysterically terrified of him (and yet throw myself between him and my mum or my sister) that I end up screaming and hysterical if a fight happens and my Dad comes near me.

Last Christmas I was trying to intervene (not very well) as he was threatening my sister in a very menacing way that he was about to 'take her outside' and so I suggested he leave the kitchen to calm down, he ended up running towards me and I kind of lost control of myself, and was in hysterics running away from him with a chair to protect myself from him, I don't even know what I am saying at that time. (Apparently I scream 'I am going to call the police')

I think me being in hysterics made him really angry but I couldn't stop screaming, so he kept running after me. He seemed completely mental. He called me a whore.

Which really really hurts me even now, I keep thinking about that everytime my sister or mum mentions my Dad, or if he answers the housephone.

And then he said my sister was probably mine!

What? You saw my mum give birth to her!

I yelled at my mum that she needs to do something but she just kept her back to us the whole time!
And I actually got really pissed off and decided to keep yelling at him till he left the kitchen which was my only, teeny tiney victory against him.

And then my DS and I spent about 3 days upstairs in the house and I didn't dare go downstairs. My mum and sister brought me food from the kitchen and we snuck out for walks when my Dad was out. I asked my mum to drive me away but she said it would not be a good way to end the Christmas holidays! I think she wants to pretend to my Dad that I am not terrified of him!

He said to me, at the end, that I NEED TO ALTER MY PERCEPTION OF HIM (as if i could have dreamt it all up?) or else he will divorce my mum.

So I didn't say a word in response, just nodded, because I have spoken often to my mum about leaving him and she doesn't want that!

Basically, maintaining a relationship with my mum and sister is extremely difficult when they keep denying certain things happened, or blame it on medication or on stress or on the way I talk to my Dad... HOW CAN I MAINTAIN a NORMAL relationship with my mum and sister when they want me to do stuff like Christmas with my Dad? They say, 'he is not evil, don't over-react'!
The relationship between my Dad and I is rediculously strained and yet we are in a pattern of pretending nothing is wrong. My mum comes to visit and I have to ask her repeatedly not to Skype Dad in front of me. She doesn't seem to understand I feel physically sick!
At Christmas I don't know what to do as it seems to very much distress my mum and sister if I don't make an effort to enjoy Christmas with them. But I'll happily leave DS with his Dad this year if I have to have Christmas with my family.

The thing that scares me the most is, and this is the most awful thing to admit, and I'm not sure whether I can share this with my bf but I would like to, is that sometimes I feel like I am 'crossing over to the bad side'. If DS does something really bad that makes me really angry I find myself getting very angry just like my Dad used to. Also seeing my mum makes me feel like behaving like that too.

I am mostly in control of myself but I have thrown DS down on the floor, and I have come very close to his face and shouted.

I apologised and said I was wrong. And I honestly don't think I will do anything to DS again but sometimes I say you have made me very angry, go to your room and I'll go to my room and then we both calm down and we talk about it after. I've got loads of strategies for DS and have been reading UP (unconditional parenting) and have got loads of ideas for how to parent him.

I'm just so confused about why I'm quite an angry person when I'm met with rebellion from DS, when usually I am very calm and laidback, and why certain things start to come out of my mouth that sounds like my mum or dad, when I should never repeat that cycle.

I'm sorry that was rediculously long.

Also, I would like to tell my bf that I have issues with my parents, but as he had an ex who had bipolar disorder I am scared it will seem to him that I have mental health problems, where as I think I am much more in control of myself, in that having lost my temper when DS was very young, I now tell him that I am angry and we should calm down and then talk.

peaceandharmony,

Have you ever had any counselling regarding your relationship with your dysfunctional parents?. BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

I do not think either of your parents bring anything at all positive into your life and like all toxic parents they have never apologised nor taken any responsibility for their actions. Your Dad is inherently violent and for all sorts of reasons your mother chose and has chosen to remain with him. That's her choice and problem. Your mum and dad as parents have let you and your sister down abjectly. Disenage entirely from them all emotionally and physically and make your own traditions re Christmas.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from parents and your upbringing was certainly a dysfunctional one. History does not need to repeat itself here re your son and to your credit you are realising this and changing some behaviours.

Surely your bf already knows that you came from a childhood that was characterised by both fear and violence?. He has seen how they behave surely?.

BTW it is NOT your fault they are this way; their own birth families did that to them. I repeat, you did not make them this way. How much do you know btw about their own childhoods?. I would also read Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward as a starting point for your own self.

Hi peaceandharmony, I d like to second what Atilla is saying: detach, find a therapist and focus on your own family. Ive also found myself starting to repeat my parents behaviour with my kids and felt so guilty and at the same time bewildered as to why because Im usually very different to them. With my therapist I m working through my own childhood and my current relationship with my family, and almost magically (feels like that anyway) those behaviours started disappearing. I think it is about learning to be your adult persona (the calm one you are in healthy situations) in a family setting. My therapist is an integrative therapist who used transactional analysis and inner child methods, which are recommended by many on this thread. Also stay posting here, cos there are some amazingly wise and caring women here, who understand very well where you're coming from.

well done on confronting your father 8 years ago, peaceandharmony - that takes guts!

You can't change your dad.
You can't change the way your mother and sister interact with him.

All you can do is decide how much contact you wish to have with him (I would suggest none, given how violent, unhinged and unapologetic he is), and when/where/how often you can see your mother and sister without him (if you wish to maintain a relationship with them), and stick to your guns.

You don't need to justify yourself, you don't owe any of them an explanation, and if your mother and sister try to guilt you into keeping things as they were, you don't need to give in: your choices are your own.

Good luck. This is very painful, but a good therapist can help you through the emotional side of detaching from your toxic family, and learning healthier behaviours of your own for the wellbeing of yourself and your son.

Thanks guys, it is rediculous I suppose but I expect people to come back and say - it's not that bad and surely it wasn't every day - grow up!

I really don't think I can afford a therapist but I could ask my GP.

I don't think my bf knows as I've just said I hate my Dad and I don't exactly go and visit him. I don't know much about their childhoods although I know my Dad got bullied at school. Thanks for replying.

Hi

With regards to your comment:-
"Thanks guys, it is rediculous I suppose but I expect people to come back and say - it's not that bad and surely it wasn't every day - grow up!"

I give you this in response (which is contained in the initial post of this long thread):-
"One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

I suggested BACP because they do not charge the earth and they will be far more thorough. Counsellors however, are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits in with your approach. It is imperative you can find someone who you can freely work with.

GP may only be able to offer six or so sessions after a very long wait for counselling. I do not think you can afford to wait that long.

Hi, I have namechanged again, (peaceandharmony) sorry, but thanks for your responses, it helps so much to clear my head by getting some of your very sensible outsider perspective.

How do you know how to parent!?

When you are being so careful not to repeat history?

I think I come across as too cautious and too 'super nanny' how unasseptable is that!?

And I have had occasions where DS has acted very badly (once he punched me in the face on the bus from school and was extremely angry with me most of the way home, no idea why except he had been getting into trouble fighting and having difficulties at school) and I had no emotional reaction, completely void of any emotional reaction at all, which seemed to prompt strangers on the bus to tell DS off for me. Quite surreal.