"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

For me it was only a sense of being valued when I behaved, looked and thought in the exact way she wanted. Anything else resulted in rejection. Piss my mother off and she made sure my siblings rejected me too. Any room I went into my siblings would be pulled out and the door shut, cutting me off from the family.

She parented using the divide and rule method. She played my siblings and I off against each other, any signs we were getting on in the slightest would be met with suspicion. And then she would tell people and complain and exclaim 'wwwhhhhhyyyyy can't my children just get on'

Any expression of our needs would be met by huffing and puffing and eye rolling. We were a complete inconvenience.

Yet to others she put on a perfect act of a devoted mother. To us she played the martyr. From the age of eleven I heard all about her domineering father, how horribly my father treated her, how much she had sacrificed for us and how lucky we were to have her. From the age of 11. Because she said she didn't want to confide in strangers.

I finally cut her out my life in 2007 yet I still want to scream whenever I remember/think about her.

The song 'Perfect' by Alanis Morrisette could have been written about my parents. My violent, self absorbed shit of a father was just as bad

I can't post any more it's too triggering and I am on the edge today as it is

Susan I don't think that's childish or unreasonable. Wanting to be treated with respect and as an equal is normal, and it sounds like you receive neither from that part of your family.

Meinlove Its hard, isn't it? I recently had a discussion with my psych, where he said to me some of the experiences in my life have been unfair. I felt blank at that, because if I say they are unfair, I'm saying I deserve to be treated better. And how can I deserve to be treated better when I am worthless?

Wibbly I hope today turns into a better day. Know what you mean about "Perfect".

My mothers favorite tactic is to blame things on my mental health. Whenever I try to bring something up, or set boundaries, all I get in response is, "See you're lashing out again. All I do is help you, and when you're like this its impossible." - I find it so frustrating. I want to scream at them "Well why do you think I am like this?!". But of course I am then just being ungrateful, unappreciative and cruel.

Saw her last night and, as predicted, I am now on a major downer today.

Tea and cake time!!

Gosh i can relate to many of your stories esp the recent posts on not feeling validated.., here goes, my story, sorry v long!

Below is my last email from my mother (sorry for length but didn't want to edit selectively).

The context - mother was a bully and emotionally and sometimes physically abusive when I was a teen. (weak) father stood by and justified her behavior, denied/downplayed my experience. Older sister seemingly became golden child, me I think scapegoat of family dysfunction- parents' unequal relationship, mother's NPD and depression...that's my amateur therapist take on it anyway!

We now live 1,000s of miles away and see my parents 1x a year. My dp and I have had a tough few months and started a messy trial separation 2 months ago resulting in much distress all round due to his interest in another woman. I sent my parents a short email telling them, no response. We met up (first time in a year) in a cafe and when I popped to the loo they immediately turned to my husband ( from whom they know i am separated!)to ask in front of my young kids "if medication was involved with me" - (wtf?!). For the record I am a fully functioning human being with only 1 bout of PnD 5 years ago which required mild ADs, no hospitalization and I still held down a job, looked after 2 kids and passed my masters!

I decided to play it cool and not react immediately when dp told me. I emailed my mother my response a couple of days later so that I could be in calm, dispassionate (as far as possible) adult mode pointing out what I observed, felt and wasn't happy about - speaking in front of my kids, assuming medication involved...no proper conversation after 1 year! I received the response below:

"Dear Salbertina.I'm very sorry for what I asked (your husband): it was ill-advised. But I didn't express it quite as he says but chose my words very carefully:-
"Has there been any medical intervention?" which I was sure (your 12 yr old) would not understand. I was motivated by desperation, given
your sparse and rare communication. We didn't know what was going on. We both think you should consider professional help. Of what sort I don't know: useful help is difficult to come by but your violent temper which we've both experienced is a concern. You should, at your age try to control it.

Tomorrow, we could come to London because we'd like to see you before you go back overseas,where would you like to meet and at what time?

I think (husband) shouldnot have taken offence at what I said. When we were with you last July, he was quite off-hand with us. I know we're not his sort of people,nor is he ours but we're fond of him and we try to "get on".
Love from Mum and Dad xxx"

Healing the scars of emotional abuse by Gregory K. Jantz is a really truthful amazing helpful insight. Download a free sample on Google play books. I read this book in 2 days. Gregory has his own centre where he heals people from their abusive past. Please read it. X

Gregory L. Jantz not K.

your violent temper which we've both experienced is a concern. You should, at your age try to control it. message her back salbertina, asking where her control was when you were growing up.
At least you live 1000s of miles away......

Hi Mary. Thanks for responding was wondering if I should have posted on here, if "bad" enough ifykwim..
Am sorely tempted to mail get back also to ask why- with precisely NO evidence she blames me het own daughter fir the separation and thinks it ok to discuss in my absence in front of my kids! Such unbelievable betrayal on so many levels
She's got fairly extreme NpD I reckon and us honestly incapable of hearing a different pov and would just attack me back if I question further. She's a nasty, cruel woman- interestingly df used to ask her to stop being "evil" when I was growing up, v apt.

was wondering if I should have posted on here, if "bad" enough ifykwim..
I felt the same with my post, but your mum does sound bad.....

Thanks, Mary, reassuring- validating to hear that! I scrolled down to see what your story was but it's such a big thread now. Hope you are finding some peace and support on here anyway.

Salbertina I spluttered in OUTRAGE at that email! OK I laughed at them too!

They have turned your split into THEM,THEM,THEM,THEM,THEM!

You were absolutely correct to call them out for discussing you in front of your H, and worse your children. Your 12 yo will of course understand EVERYTHING, but they knew that anyway. It's just to weaken you in your DC eyes too.

I was motivated by desperation, given your sparse and rare communication. We didn't know what was going on. We both think you should consider professional help. Of what sort I don't know: useful help is difficult to come by but your violent temper which we've both experienced is a concern. You should, at your age try to control it.

So you are being blamed for not speaking to them... I'm assuming they know how to use a phone/email?

We don't know what is going on?... Erm, no, and why would you?

We BOTH think you should consider professional help... Erm WHY? WTAF? there is nothing WRONG with you! You may benefit from counselling to offset the damage THEY have done, but there is NOWT wrong with you love! Ahh, just cuz you don't agree with them, you don't do what you are told anymore, you MUST be crazy, RIIIIGGGHHHT

As for the anger issue... I had this conversation with my mother recently, when I was talking about my abusive ex. Apparently she was happy I was getting on better with him, as 'for a while you were very angry, you know?'

Erm, WTAF? where, as a supposed caring mother, was YOUR anger at your DD being hit, punched, belittled, emotionally and financially abused, hmm?

I suggest you reduce that 1x a year down to nothing. even that once does you harm. Next time you are 'home' don't tell them and just be busy. Or better, go take yourself somewhere you WANT to be, with people you LOVE and care for?

((((HUG))))

Well, DD1 and XH went over to my parents today, to pick up some stuff the DDs had left behind on holiday, after we fled.

My parents, barely spoke to them, just a very frosty hello, it's over there, and good bye. My father disappeared to the garage, flatly refused to help XH get a fireplace out that I have stored in there, and ignored them.

My mother completely blanked any attempt at conversation by DD1. DD1 said there was no point in trying to talk to her again, as she was having a massive one woman pity party. She says she thinks that my parents either don't care that they will never see their only grandchildren again (my DDs choice, I have made it very clear to them that I will support them if they still wish to have a relationship with them).

I can't believe it. They are cutting their grandchildren off. Because they cannot,and will not accept that their golden child is a spoilt, abusive bully.

Sarah it sounds like your DD has got her head screwed on well at least. Take some comfort in the knowledge you have ovbiously done a fantastic job in encouraging her to make her own choice, and from that she has had the confidence to make the healthiest one.

Sarah, it's like the ffing twilight zone isn't it?

I'm battling AGAIN today with more realisations about my DSis, or SisterDearest as I call her...

this shit just keeps coming! more and more layers of the relationship are exposed and more and more examples how we have been shat all over while others, VILE others have been rewarded.

I tar them all with the same brush atm. I tolerate my mum, mostly out of selfish child care needs, but that will end when(ever) she moves away.

I actually think I ought to have been abandoned at birth. i think I'd have been raised with more care and compassion at times.

The thing I most struggle with is when I'm in my normal little bubble, thinking I have a family, then I realise just how crappy a deal I got, on so many levels. it's like a slap in the face every time I realise the truth.

Like that film 50 First Dates, I 'wake up' in horror. It's the most sickening thought in the world.

All the trouble I've had in my life, the depression, suicide attempt, unhealthy relationships, questioning my sexuality, abusive relationship.... all down to questioning myself, judging myself and not feeling good enough.

I'm not an addict/alcoholic, but I could have been.

My sister was always a nightmare when I was growing up. She was diagnosed with borderline schizophrenia by the psychiatric unit she went to when I was 8 and 9 years old. She left when I was 9, nearly 10 as she attacked my Mum (who is her stepmum) in one of the psychiatric meetings. She tried to strangle her to be exact when my sister (mums daughter) and I were there too, as well as my Dad (who is her Dad).

She was always very jealous of me as a kid. Even before I came about she would play up. About 3 months after my parents started dating she scratched herself to appear that my other sister who is 9 months older than her had did it. My Mum smacked her, seeing no reason why she'd lie about it and my sister cried. Then Mum saw her doing it again another time. My eldest sister never truly got over that, amongst the other abusive ways she got treated by my 'nasty' sister.

Whilst I was a kid she hit me, punched me etc (I am 8 years younger than her, so this was when I was about 5 or 6 years old). My Mum kept her away from me most of the time and my other sister tried her best, but it was usually me protecting my eldest sister. I would hit back, because it was all I knew to shut her up. Mum was going to leave several times, but she loved my Dad dearly. My Dad refused to believe his daughter would do such a thing. She once tried to hit me round the head with a hockey stick. She would often tell me she hated me, she was ashamed of me and wished I was never born/dead. It was pretty horrible. She would tell me/show me scary things at age 4 or 5. I suffered from night terrors and hallucinations at night. I am not sure if it was just her or other things that caused them.

She went to a psychiatric unit and they diagnosed her with borderline schizophrenia. I know schizophrenia is awful and people should have sympathy, but honestly she was fine sometimes and not others. Also, it doesn't mean a little girl should have to suffer with it. Besides, she doesn't act like she has schizophrenia these days (she's 30 years old now, I'm 22). She left after the aformentioned incident with my Mum when my Mum said to my Dad it was either her or she, my sister and I left because we couldn't put up with it.

Skip a few years, about 5 to be exact. She is pregnant and we get back in contact. We spoke to her throughout this time but about once or twice a year. She went to stay with my grandparents but then she got kicked out of theirs for stealing. She gets pregnant when I am 14 and I want to put most of it behind us. She doesn't apologise for any of her behaviour to me. She does to Mum and Dad, but not to me.

Then at my 18th (she has just had her second little boy about 6 months beforehand with same guy) we have been speaking every few months as a family, give or take. Dad decides it would be a nice surprise to have both sisters there so get her over from where she lives in Ireland and we live in England. Anyways it all goes OK until she has a few drinks. She's not plastered but she's a bit tipsy. She starts complaining about how I get everything, how everything is about me etc. A year beforehand I had been in a mildly emotionally abusive and sexually abusive relationship, had worked hard in exams, had been told off by Dad all my life when I was naughty etc, I hardly had things cooshty. Then she walked off. Never apologised to me the next day.

I went to her wedding last week and she didn't talk to me throughout. She had my Mum, her stepmother sitting next to my Dad, her husband - I liked this as it's nice but I was left in the back of the registery office with cousins. She didn't want to have a photo taken with me and only spoke to me at the end as Mum told Dad I was a bit upset about it and he mentioned it to her. I was mad because she should've done it anyway.

I will continue to speak to her distantly, because she is my sister and her 4 kids are my nephews and nieces and little sweethearts but I just don't know why she hates me so much and has never apologised to me or bothers with me. I have never done anything to her and have always put the past behind us and never brought up things or talked about them unless they are talked to me. I know it's too much to ask someone like this to acknowledge how they have made me feel but I just think it's really unfair.

I know it's nothing as bad as what others have gone through and it's not to do with parents, I just wanted to put it out there. Phew. I know she had problems but it's still not fair. She doesn't act like she has any schizophrenia now. My Dad gets defensive about the past and wont admit he didn't discipline her enough (nearly not at all). I love my Dad to pieces but as he disciplined me why not discipline her? My parents are amazing people but even up to a few years ago they have had fights about her and it's been so hard. My other sister doesn't talk to her and didn't go to her wedding. I understand why she didn't and respect her for that. I will always support my sister because she is my sister. But why did she always hit me? Wish I were dead? Try to scare me? Not apologise for all she did? Not want to bother with me now?

She did say at the end of her wedding she's looking forward to her invite to my wedding (2 years time, August 14th) I was like whaaat? I don't know if I will or not. My fiance promises he'd get her kicked out if she did anything though. But I want my big day to be happy - just like I did with hers which is why I was very happy when she had a good day and bought my Dad a nice beer glass and my Mum a wine glass with Mum on it - but as selfish as it sounds - what about me... When do I matter?

I am sorry this is so long and probably not the least bit interesting. :(

Just reading others posts makes me realise just how much crap so many of us have had to deal with.

I've been feeling really angry recently. I'm getting on top of things, realising that even with the changes that have happened because I've not had anything to do with my parents, things are not quite as bleak as I feared (touches wood, hoping not to jinx that). I've had one text from my mum, simply asking how my DD is. I'm guessing she's trying to 'reach out' but still not acknowledging the severity of what my dad did, or showing any sign of wanting to talk about it. I need to talk about it, but she won't let me do that. That's something she's done to me for as long as I can remember. My opinion/voice/POV was never worthy. Never something that warranted any attention whatsoever. Dismissed at every turn. And it still makes me fume inwardly.

She's also sent me a cheque to pay for DD's school shoes. Both these things seem innocent enough on their own, but it's making me angry that she wants to do these things but she cannot bring herself to actually acknowledge my anger at what my dad did, and what she did to cover up for him. In my mind, I cannot actually talk to them, so in a way it's probably best I don't. I cannot get past my anger. In any conversations I imagine having, trying to get my words right, I just visualise myself getting apopleptic with rage. I'm so angry that they thought, and continue to think, that what he did was in any way acceptable. And it's doubley gaulling because they did the same to me, and still think that was right despite the very obvious affect it's had on me my whole life. To be so indignant about this, when anyone with an ounce of sense would tell them that what he did was out of order. Way way out of order.

My DD has been talking about going to her gran's, about getting her toys, just general normal stuff that she's used to. I'm finding that hard, as she will ask some time soon to go there, and I'm struggling with what to tell her. She way too young to understand all this. She thinks if I speak to her grampa he'll actually listen and not shout/hit/belittle etc. She just doesn't get that he will behave exactly how he wants, no matter how much of a bastard he is, and no one has the right to question him/tell him what to do. I knew she would ask at some point, and I knew I'd struggle, but I just don't know how to tell her about this or explain it.

I have a painting my parents gave me. Also a rather nice hall chair. I no longer want them in my house. Everything else is going to the charity shop, or being ebayed. I appreciate that this is probably rather childish, but I don't want reminders of them about.

Would it be ridiculously childish to send them to the local Auction House, knowing full well that they go to every single auction, without fail?

Hi everyone, I was wondering if someone could offer me some advice?
Has anyone had any success in maintaining a relationship between a toxic mother and their own children without them needing to be involved?
I have finally, after over 30 years of abuse, decided to cut my mother out of my life. Her last outburst was 13 weeks ago and we have had no contact since. I have given myself time to think through the implications of cutting any ties with her and feel incredibly calm since making the decision.
BUT my children, especially DD (7) have been upset about not seeing her. She had been picking her up one day a week and having her for an hour or so, and had been spending a morning a week with my DS (4) with my MIL (my mum is bipolar and off meds.) I have tried to explain to DD that granny is not very well and that her poorliness makes her cross with me and she sort of understands, but also says she misses her. My sister, who has just had her first child is trying to maintain contact with my mum and as she is happy to take my children when she goes to visit with her baby.
So, what to do? Shall I just cut all ties and hope the children "forget" about her, or do they deserve a chance to see her with supervision? DH, helpfully, says it's "up to me."

clemette

I would allow them to see your mother with your sister, if that's at all possible. But if your mother acts inappropriate towards them or you hear wind that she is, then cut the contact straight away. It isn't worth putting your children through that. Plus, you've given it a go then.

If this does happen explain to your children as you have done that granny is not very well and it's best to give her some time to get better but it might take a while. Hopefully they will stop asking less and less. If not though, think about what age it will be when you tell them the reason why you have cut your DM out of your life. 13 or 14, 16 or 17, or not at all if you don't feel it's appropriate.

Keep strong. You need to do what's good for you, as well as for your children. She has left you hurt and ultimately having you feeling hurt wont help the DCs in the long run at all.

Thank you. I know it's probably ridiculous but I feel like denying her contact with the children at the moment would be like punishing her, and that would be another form of engaging with her. My sister is very sensible and will manage it well I think.

I can understand that, clemette, you have my sympathies... And the other posters too whether toxic sisters or mothers, hurt the same

High jumping, thanks for your great support! Reassuring to get feedback that dm has been outrageous and not in a good way, makes me feel less wrong, alone and invalidated. Hope things starting to settle down for you, if only for your peace of mind, doesn't sound easy

Would it be ridiculously childish to send them to the local Auction House,- kind of, but if it would make you feel good, do it. If however it would create a scene, best to use ebay although that wouldn't be so satisfying.

There will be no scene, there is absolutely no contact, and I would not be going to the auction itself.

I've got a month to think about it, I'm not going to do anything hasty.

Bump

Maybe a little mean, but it seems your feelings haven't been spared any, Sarah.

Do it Sarah!!

Passive aggression ROCKS!

then, if they ever ask, beat them at their own game, gaslight them... deny, deny, deny.

If they insist that it was the stuff they gave to you, don't miss the opportunity to say that mass produced stuff gets off loaded all the time, not like heirloom pieces...

[Wink]