"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

Hi

I am quietly poking my head round the door after taking weeks to summon up the courage to jump in.

I am the daughter of two narcs. A pretty screwed up daughter of two narcs.

I don't have anything to do with them anymore thank god!

Not sure how much I can open up on a public forum, talking about it to anyone turns me into a bit of a wreck anyway and I don't want to out myself, not that I think anyone I know reads here.

I just remembered a conversation I had with my mother years back, after reading another thread on here.

As well as being told that she hates me and no one would ever love me as I was growing up, after I had my first child and she was about 4, my mother came and sat on my bed while she was staying and asked me in all seriousness what I used to hit my daughter with.

I have to fix myself as I just tend to attract narcs myself and want better for myself and my kids in the future.

Sorry if this sounds disjointed. My head gets disjointed while trying to talk about the 'crappy' stuff

Marking my place, think you're all incredibly brave x

Hello, I'm new to this thread but I've been hovering a bit tonight, looking for some answers I guess. I'm not even clear in my head what the questions are but I feel the need to 'spew forth' some baggage that's been weighing heavily recently.

Some background 1st. I'm in my 5th week of no contact with my parents. I'm feeling very low, and guilty, and a but fucked up if I'm honest. The guilt is the thing that's getting to me the most. Mainly around my DD. But, it's all about my DD too, so that's what makes it so difficult right now.

I'm a lone parent with a 7 yr old DD. My parents have helped me a lot since she was born, and more so since I split from my ex. I have guilt about how that panned out, as my ex chose to have little to do with DD for a long time. Coincidently, that side of things has improved more recently. But, my DD not having her dad around as much meant I really leant on my parents for her sake, because I felt it was important for her to have people around her that loved her. And I feel like such a mug as my dad has (for a while) been treating her exactly how he treated me when I was the same age. I've been a mug for not realising, or ignoring what was right in front of my face. And I feel like shit because of that.

This all started mainly about 6 weeks ago when my DD told me that my dad hit her last year when she was on holiday with them, while I was working. He hurt her and humiliated her. DD didn't tell me. I feel awful about that - she only told me a few weeks ago. My mum didn't tell me. And my dad never said a word. When I tried to speak to my mum about it, she hung up on me. I then saw her a few days later, and she cut me off, refused to even acknowledge this was an issue worth discussing, and that 'it had been dealt with' so there was nothing to discuss.

The impact of no contact affects me in many ways. One of them is financially. My mum picked my DD up from school 1 night a week so I could work late. I've had to change my work hours as I can no longer commit to the hours I did previously, which means I lose money I can ill afford. On the one hand, no amount of money is worth putting my DD at risk. And on the other, I'm struggling badly, and could ill afford to live on what I was earning. So, I won't put my DD at risk, yet I worry about the loss of money as a result of no longer having that option available. It's a bit fucked up really.

I feel really lonely. I know my mum is and has been slating me to wider family. Friends. People I've known all my life, and who all look at me like I'm the one with the problem because of what my mum says about me. I never get to defend myself, but I'm judged because of the character assassination I get from my mum whenever she's pissed off with something about me.

I feel I can't go and see family because they'll feel awkward with us there, knowing that things are so bad between me & my parents. I can't arrange to see people as they tell my mum, and she'll turn up to force me to see her while ignoring the issue that's caused all of this.

I just feel awful tonight. I know I can't actually go back to the way things were. The one thing I will never do is put my DD at risk again. It's not just the hitting/humiliation. It's the destruction of spirit, confidence, heart, self worth. I worried when I was going to have my DD that I'd pass on all my hang ups to her. She was a wonderful, out going, confident wee girl. I'm ashamed to say she's no longer like that, and I don't know how to get that back.

Sorry, I'm just rambling and not making a lot of sense. But I needed to get this out, and put it somewhere.

You have done completely the right thing protecting your daughter, you are a fantastic mum.

Are there any friends or neighbours nearby who could collect your daughter for you and you could return the favour another day of the week?

I can relate to your mum performing a character assassination, my mother used to do exactly the same thing to me from a very young age. Telling anyone who would listen I'd make nothing of my life, how horrid I was etc, she was shameless, she told the cleaner this in front of me. The poor cleaner was wide eyed!

I have no contact with my close family due to the abuse, and no contact with wider family either because of what she has been saying. It's so fucking hurtful isn't it

I'm funny about asking people for help. I find it virtually impossible to ask, as I've always been made to feel like shit for asking for help by both my parents. There is that, and the fact I don't know anyone well enough to do the whole helping each other out thing. I've had to just accept that I'll drop about £80 a month because I can't work the hours I was (i've been using up holiday allowance while trying to figure out what to do), and deal with it some how.

Sorry, I'm feeling my self pitying tone to be a bit irritating. I'm annoying myself with this stuff. It's been swirling around my head for the past week or so, and it's gone nowhere. I've been contemplating going to my GP and asking for ADs again. Might help. I've not had any for 8 years, and I sometimes wonder how I've managed it!

Hi everyone. Wibbly, Perspective, you've given me the courage to de-lurk, thank you.

Perspective: FWIW I agree with Wibbly, and I think you've done the right thing. Might it be worth reaching out to friends and telling them what's going on? Also, I wanted to say that I witness what you're going through and I hope you and your dd are ok.

Everyone: I've lurked for so long wishing I could cut contact with my physically and sexually abusive family, and I've been inspired by the stories and the strength I've seen on here. Tonight I wrote my family an email telling them about my childhood and what it's done to my adulthood (OCD, anxiety, self-harm), and telling them I wouldn't tolerate it any more. Then I had a panic attack and rushed on to MN . I'm so glad the Stately Homes thread is here.

Perspective, you are doing the right thing by protecting your DD.
It must be so hard to feel that your mum is making out to other family members that any problems are your fault. My mum does this same thing and it is very painful and isolating. You will get through this time and have a life where your DD knows she is safe.

For now look after yourself and your DD. Once you are feeling stronger you can think about who else you might want in your 'family' - friends, any sympathetic relatives.

It can be a hard and lonely path but you are brave and have taken the first steps by cutting off contact with damaging people and by reaching out for help here.

Thunder- you too are taking brave steps. I hope your panicky feeling has passed for now. Wishing you well.

Wibbly, thunder and everyone else, thanks for the lovely comments. If it's ok I'm going to ramble a bit more. Might not make any sense, but having nothing but time and thoughts to deal with today, I'm realising some things from reading others' posts, which I'd not considered before. It's pretty eye opening.

I always felt that my dad was the problem. He's a mean, nasty bully of a man, and my mum has always been, in my eyes, a weak, timid person when it comes down to dealing with him. I never blamed my mum at all growing up - my fury was directed solely towards my dad. I always saw my mum as basically a good person, kind, loving, selfless, and had been dealt a pretty shit hand being married to my dad. I could never understand why she didn't leave him, and that would be the only thing I blamed her for.

Since I had my DD, my feelings towards my mum have changed. I simply cannot fathom why she stood by and let my dad treat me the way he did. She even 'joined in' dishing out punishments to hurt and humiliate me as clearly I deserved it in both their eyes. I never saw her as an enabler before, but I realise that's exaclty what she has been. All my life.

I think I'm torturing myself a little as I know them both inside out, so know what will have been happening since I walked out 5 weeks ago. 1st, my dad will have been particularly abusive about me, face purple with rage, ranting, ripping me apart and 'cutting me off' from 'his money'. My mum will have been in tears, with the 'why is she so cruel' bollocks, despite the fact she's had the chance to speak to me to sort things out. And by sort things out, I mean accept that things as they were will no longer continue, and changes will not be modified to suit her or my dad. She'll have been phoning up her DS, SIL, friends, cousins, neighbours, getting all tearful and 'woe is me' about how she has such an awful DD who is 'using her GC to hurt her'.

I'd love nothing more than to have my mum see DD on her own, spend time with her, so they can both enjoy each other the way they always did. Without my dad around, she's not abusive, or nasty, or a bully, or puts DD down. But she won't do that as she's too loyal to my dad. She won't do that as she'll be getting shit from him about how she shouldn't be 'pandering to me' by doing what I ask. She's also dependent on him for transport, money etc. so he can quite easily make it too diffcult for her to actually see DD as well.

There just isn't an easy fix to this, but my resolve in protecting my DD won't waver. I'm angry that I didn't feel able to stand up for her when it mattered, and that I allowed her to be subjected to the crap my dad dishes out. I knew deep down things weren't right, but because I didn't see much with my own eyes, and what I did see I corrected, and stupidly thought that was enough to get him to stop, he's taken so much of her confidence away. And I've done it too - been 'harder' on my DD in an attempt to stop them jumping in and shouting at her too. I'm such a fucking idiot for not seeing what that was doing to my DD.

It was such a toxic situation, and only now I'm out of it, can I really see what was right in front of me. I won't repeat that ever again.

Now, I just need to get on top of things, make life better for me & DD, and hopefully fill in the lonely gaps with something else that will stop me feeling all 'woe is me'.

Thunder, for what it's worth, I think you are incredibly brave. I don't have the guts to do what you did. I'm walking away from it, knowing that it makes me appear the cruel, spiteful DD both my parents are making me out to be. I'd love nothing more than to tell them exactly what I think of them, and why I won't let them continue with their crap. But, I can't do that. Yet. So, kudos to you for taking that step.

Wibbly, just readin back over what you have said, I think I totally get what you mean about being screwed up. I feel like I'm a total screw up, my life has never been 'normal' the way I've gone about things, and the fact I could never be 'normal' like everyone else. I think one of the reasons I struggle with where I am now is that I feel hugely responsible for a lot of the stuff that's happened to me and around me, and a lot of that has to to do with the kind of uprbinging I had. I never knew how to say sorry. It's not a word that was ever used by either of my parents growing up. I genuinely didn't have a clue how to actually make things right by looking at myself and apologising for what I did wrong. I lost so many friends along the way because of that. It's one of the reasons I don't have many friends now. The few friends I have that I can rely on, are too far away to be any real help to me in a practical sense.

Relationships - Not had that many and what I did have were bad. I was the 'bully' in those scenarios. Many just walked away, but one or two put up with it. I've been on my own now for 4 years and I realise that I'm not an easy person to live with. I think I'm best on my own, and not in a 'poor me' sense, but that I think I need to learn to like myself more, and nurture better qualities in myself. My DD has taught me so much about how to be a good person. I've given her the voice to tell me when I'm not being nice, not speaking in a nice way, and it stops me and I apologise for it. She's the tonic I've needed my whole life, and I hope that eventually being a 'good' person will come naturally to me, instead of giving into the panic and anxiety that I've had for years.

Thank you for the kind words. I tend to minimize everything but am trying to learn not to. Confronting was a scary thing to do. I had to remind myself that they couldn't hurt me any more - I don't have to answer the door if they come knocking and I don't have to pick up the phone. I really focused on trying to feel safe, but honestly, keeping myself busy running around has actually been the best thing. It takes my mind off everything. The panic comes and goes but it seems to be ebbing. I slept like the dead last night. I was so exhausted.

Perspective: I think it a good sign that you gave your dd the freedom to call 'em as she sees 'em. Because of my family history I often think children are appallingly disempowered, but in her case she's free to speak her truth and (more importantly?) to be heard by her mother. IMO it's wonderful for a child to have that kind of agency, and it's so good of you to give it to her.

I don't know whether i belong here or not, but here goes.

I have Borderline Personality Disorder, and am currently beginning a long and difficult journey towards - hopefully - recovery. The first steps in this process have been recognizing events and triggers from my past, to see how and why they contributed towards me being the person I am today. A lot of this has led to some disturbing revolutions towards my childhood.

Outwardly my parents are wonderful. My mum is funny, kind, bubbly, caring. My father is dry humored, efficient, organised. (Christ just typing that makes me realise how little I can say about him affectionately.) But they are both controlling, distant, quick to anger and blame, and used to smack me when I did wrong.

Again, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post. But I read the opening posts, and all the "quotes" match with discussions I have attempted to have.

I have huge problems with guilt, constantly feel like I am creeping around my family, have no self respect and blame myself for everything that happens, from picking up the wrong vegetable to natural disasters.

My father left home for a while when I was around 9 or 10 years old. I recognise now he was probably depressed following the death of his mother. But the situation at home was vile, I hated being there, I was constantly being screamed at for something. Two days before he left he told me it was my fault he was leaving, that he hated me, and that I was a horrible girl. This has stayed with me, and is one of the major triggers for my condition (I feel).

The more I think about my childhood, the more it was never the happy wonderful time people seem to tell me it was. I felt fearful all the time, and still do now, whenever I go back home.

I'm now faced with some really difficult thoughts, and I don't know how to deal with them. I feel horrendously guilty for not being appreciative to my parents, because I know that's what they want.

I also know that a lot of you will have been through things that I can't imagine, so I'm sorry if my rambling seems pathetic and out of place.

I hover here but have never -yet- posted, canI just say you most definitely belong? Your story and concerns ARE valid and I'm sure you'll get a lot of support on here. Toxic parents good also Children of the self absorbed, all horrendously upsetting to work through but hopefully healing. Hope your posting brings you peace

I've been kicked out of my family this weekend, after a week of hell with my parents and sister on an extended family holiday with my DDs.

Could I come in and lick my wounds a little bit, I understand my family dynamics - my sister is the golden child, I am the scapegoat, and my mother is a one woman pity party.

I just need somewhere quiet, where everyone understands that it's not me that's the actual problem.

Sarah, that is crap, what happened?

I too am the scapegoat, I get less preferential treatment than my sister. My DSis has actively set out to upset and hurt me, has dealt me blow after blow of shite and done so with pride. The lengths to which she has stooped to make sure I knew how she connived and with whom are just astonishing.

I've been put under immense pressure to NOT cut her off, NOT to split the family etc. I replied that tbh, if i'm put under pressure to include DSIs in my life, that it will cause a family CATASTROPHE, meaning that I will cut them ALL off.

I will do this anyway, in time, when I can afford to do so. I am merely allowing one person in my life because it suits me to do so, as soon as the situation changes, I will let that one go too. 2 down, one to go....

Funny how someone can treat YOU like shit, and YOU get told not to split the family? Erm, I didn't DO anything to hurt anyone, I didn't make sure I told them that they were deliberately hurt and lied to, over and over and over. I could have been left in blissful and kind ignorance, I could have been supported in my attempts to get out of an abusive relationship... but no.

DREADING Christmas.... Have to find somewhere ELSE to be. I have a couple of options at the moment, but it'll be hard, there will be pressure, I know it.

I used to have a therapist, I used to attend a DV support group, I'm starting work this week, full time, I have to call a halt to both for now. I'm worried. This shit is hard to deal with on my own.

I dream of changing my name, moving and leaving them all to their own devices. One day, who knows.

Very similar really Hissy. She's an abusive, aggressive bully, but rarely in front of an audience - she would be v subtle in front of my XH, but my parents are so used to it, so immune to it, that she is blatantly hideous in front of them, and the DDs too.

She is younger than me, by 4 years, all throughout my life I have been told not to make a scene, not to rock the boat, 'oh that's just X's way'. She's hit me, got me in to trouble at every opportunity, and I don't really understand why. It's always been blatantly obvious that my parents favoured her, she's far, far cleverer than me and they used to boast about her. She's musical, they sold my pony without my knowledge to buy her a new piano (that's a whole saga in itself). She went to an expensive boarding school, I went to the local sink comprehensive. That sort of thing.

The DDs and I went on holiday with my sister and parents, it was my mother's birthday half way through the week. It was so hideous, and my sister was so blatantly rude to me that my DDs were texting my XH telling him what she was doing. They actually arranged for him to ring the day after her birthday, and say he had sciatica (he has a history of it), and get us to come home early (he was looking after FailCat and the house for us - things between us have improved immeasurably since last summer).

Unfortunately, on the day of my mum's birthday she was so hideously behaved that I snapped and hit her. I have never hit anyone in my life before, I am usually so ridiculously passive that it's untrue, I have awful problems with people walking all over me, and using me, and I simply can't stand up for myself. I then went back to the house with the DDs, packed and left.

They stayed. They didn't ring, didn't want to know if the DDs were ok, or anything. DD1 and XH spoke to my mother this afternoon, and she has stated that I am violent, aggressive, am having a breakdown and need urgent help.

She flatly denied seeing any bad behaviour from my sister, even when DD1 challenged her, and told her she was actually sitting next to my sister on 3 occasions. She has also been present when my sister has screamed abuse at my DDs so badly that she has made them cry - this was when they were around 2 and 6. :(

She then stated that they have washed their hands of me, and do not wish to have any further contact. Actually, I am really relieved by that bit, but I am so angry and hurt that my parents think so little of me, and always have done. I'm not a bad person, my DDs love me, I have an excellent relationship with my XILs and my XH, but I have no friends, not a single one, purely because I am too scared of people now.

Sorry for the rant, it felt good to let it all out amongst people who will understand.

Them cutting you off IS actually good, makes things easier somehow.

You can't change who they are, merely your reaction to it.

Actually, since I've stopped speaking to DSis, and DF, so much more positivity has entered my life.

I'm still angry that its come to this, but i didn't choose for this to happen, but i choose who's in my life from now on.

Same here, as soon as DD2 has finished school I shall move away, and ensure that all ties are well and truly cut. I know them well enough to know that they will offer a hand 'in peace' when they want something.

This time I won't be there.

Sorry to barge into Sarah's, Sir's, Perspectives and others discussions like this, but I need your help writing an e-mail. I've been reading all these posts about cutting contact, completely or partially, and need advice on what to tell my mum.

Some background: a few months ago she dropped a bomb of a family secret concerning my brother on me in a private conversation that I thought was about my relationship with her. She is manipulative, controlling, a drama queen, rules by division: all the obvious toxic traits, but she is very cunning in it. So cunning that during the conversation I hardly realised what was happening and only at night I realised she again dumped something on me that her guilty concious/garbled mind can't deal with. She used to do this when I was a child all the time, and now I was sincerely trying to establish a better relationship with her (more equal, with healthy boundaries), she derailed the whole thing by telling me something that made me feel sick with shame and helplessness, because they all don't live in the UK and I don't know how to be with my brother now.

Fast forward to three weeks ago, and I tell my sister what my mum has said, after repeated pressure. She is also badly shaken, talks to my brother, and he says none of it is true and that our mother has been mixing/making up stories again. I'm relieved (but not wholly convinced nothing of it is true, but anyway), but soooo angry with her for having me sick with worry for months, and not even for a real reason.

Last week, while I was going through some really hard stuff with my own family (like she smells it...) she wrote me an e-mail, saying that she probably put two separate events together and threw my brother in the mix somehow, because she likes to make things dramatic "as you know".

I know! But I also know she is a manipulative bitch and I don't believe she was sincere when she told me what she did. She had an agenda, although I don't know what. She has been pushing me out of the family since my kids were born. She plays "oh, I'm so poor, never see the grand kids I love so much" while she is the one who doesn't visit and puts obstacles in the way of all my visits and visits of my brother and father to me. Just as I was getting closer to telling my father about everything, she has railed him back in and now he is putting pressure on me to just disregard her craziness ("you know how she is, just don't listen", "i don't know why she does that either", "there are two sides in this conflict", "she doesn't mean bad", "did she really say that? when?).

I'm ranting now, but hope somebody can give me practical advice on what to do. I want to use my response to state my boundaries. I don't want to break contact completely (yet?), because at this moment it would disrupt my relations with my father and siblings too much, while they were just coming round to believing some of what I have to say about her. I also want to see what happens: not so much that I think she'll improve, but maybe things will be less strained and if not, the rest of the family might see what a nutter she really is.

So I want to tell her what I will and won't accept from her, and state my consequences if she breaks that. My therapist agrees, but says I should ask her to do specific things (state positive) rather than tell her what not to do, because then she will only focus on that. But how do I state in positive terms ("I want you to treat me like... from now on") instead of "I know what you're up to: stop manipulating, bullying, guilt tripping, bullshitting me"?

And breath.

I can't help I'm afraid, I'm sure someone will be along soon, with some proper advice. My experience, and what I was told in therapy, was to not bother trying to change the behaviour of the other person, but to use distance and helping strategies to enable you to cope.

I can honestly say that after 45 years of my family, I admit defeat and am quite happy with the thought of never seeing any of them again.

Love to you all this morning.

Returned my mothers phone call again last night, and once again found myself playing therapist for her. Every time we talk, it can never just be a simple conversation, she has to just "slip" something major in, I'll be surprised, and she'll then give me all the details, stating at the end, "But don't worry about it". I've tried challenging her on this before - "I just can't deal with hearing everything that's upsetting you, I'm sorry, its not that I don't care, but its too much for me to handle." - but of course it just got me a barrage of guilt. She'll say it all, then go, and I'll be laying there tossing and turning for hours worrying about it all.

My big problem is that I am physically disabled, and so although I live with DS successfully alone, there are some things I just can't do. Since having met a few lovely friends, I rely on my parents drastically less (which they do NOT like, I get at least one phone call a day from my mother asking why I haven't been in touch) but there are still some occasions where I have to ask for their help. This tends to be, ironically, when I need someone to look after DS for my therapy sessions. I'm reaching out and trying to find more people to do it, but it is keeping me stuck in a cycle from breaking further away from them.

meinlonve Why are you even bothering to email someone who WON'T ever step up and do the positive things you are asking of them, things actually you DESERVE?

I think your therapist's suggestion for you to write down how you want to be treated is a good exercise, but email HER with it? It will be utterly ignored at best, or the slightest hint of criticism of her will be seized upon, whipped up into a totally unreasonable frenzy, total wrong ends of stick being grabbed and thrashed about your head mostly, for eons.

Your best bet is to detach, ignore her email. It was sent to upset and create turmoil in your life and more drama where there is none. People like her like to keep you busy with shit, cos it stops you growing, and out growing them.

soo... How DO you want to be treated? List it out here.

Hissy, that gave me tears in my eyes. It's true, am starting to see it more and more, that there are actually never any positive things coming from her. Before I became a mother I kept things very shallow, and she seemed more 'normal' then, but me having kids triggered something in her (and me), and she is now so much like when I was a child again.

How I want to be treated? God, I've been asking myself that since I started thinking about that e-mail and I'm sad to say I don't know. I have the general gist: with respect, with kindness, an equal exchange. But how that looks in practical terms... I'm learning to set boundaries (find it very hard, often like I'm doing something illicit, even though it always feels good and liberating when I've stood up for myself), but am only clear on what I don't want from people. I guess I just don't really know what respectful, kind, equal communication looks like. Not just from the other person, but also from myself. It's like I'm always defending myself or preparing for the worst.

SirBoob, my mum does that too. One of the boundary things I've done is tell her "I'm not interested in talking about that" every time she went on a tangent like that. Scary, but it did seem to have an effect.

your stories bring a tear to my eye, they really do.
I too feel so sad and empty about my family, they have all just disappeared or died, but maybe that is better in a way than some of the things I am hearing here.
Mostly I feel sad about my dad and his wife, my bro and were never really treated as part of their 'new improved' family, although they did their 'duty', that is how it felt. I cannot stand it when my stepmother and her daughters (my 'half sisters' ...feck how I hate being a half person) smirk nastily whenever my bro's name is mentioned. I hate going to their house and there's pics of kids all over the place but not one of me or my bro or our kids. I hated buying 7 christmas presents when I got a bottle of bubble bath, and nothing I bought would be good enough anyway. Most of all I hated having the sisters look down their noses and make comments about my perceived poverty when their well off family was built on the ruins of our impoverished one.....they even suggested once that in fact I was not my father's child.....
I hate confiding in my dad about personal family stuff such as SS intervention and instead of offering any kind of support,moral or otherwise, he shares it with his wife, who gossips to her daughters about it.
Am I being childish and unreasonable?

above all there is the sense of not being valued at all.