"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

Thanks for replying...since we had a argument on Wednesday on the phone I haven't heard from my Mum and I don't expect to. She will be very low now, probably not getting dressed until lunchtime, talking about cancelling her Wedding and all such things. I know her so well she goes into victim mode at the drop of a hat and cries very very easily. The proper "what can't I do anything right" behaviour. Very passive aggressive. As for me, I still feel really angry and f**d up over it today.

I should mention also that I have agreed to go to the ceremony. There are only 6 other guests (long standing old friends of hers) and afterwards we have to go out for a meal. I can't quite believe I have to go through with it but there you go.

green I am two weeks off anti depressant medication. I have recently taken them for a year and a half. In my twenties I took them for five (count 'em!) years. I don't need them anymore. But the fact is that this angry, hurting, resentful person is my real self. The pills just suppressed these feelings and for the last year my DM and I have got along...okay. Now I have no medicine buffer zone if you like, and its all bubbling to the surface again.

sad its unpleasant but narc Mothers often feel so jealous of their daughters; perhaps that is why she put barriers in the way of your Father's and yours relationship. Even now I look at my DD and remind myself that when she blossoms into a teenager its my place to alllow that to happen, and to encourage it. SHE will be in the spotlight, not me, and thats how it should be. My DM used to regularly tell me I looked "dreadful" in the "unflattering" clothes I dressed in but she stopped buying clothing for me when I was about 14 years old. She also would never lend me anything of hers, claiming indignantly "No! Its MINE!". Horrible.

Her Dad "may be feeling guilty" (when pigs fly) because he threatened MomeRaths with physical violence, when MomeRath's mother was crying and upset and blaming MomeRaths for causing her to be crying and upset.

They are a pair of drama llamas and get off on it, and they need to keep MomeRaths roped in and playing her part of scapegoat in order to keep the drama going. Hence the Facebook action now: guilting, enmeshment, pursuit of more high drama...

Mome this sounds like an absolute nightmare. Really sorry you are going through it with your parents at the moment.

But the fact is that this angry, hurting, resentful person is my real self. The pills just suppressed these feelings

Do you really think that anger and resentment are your "real self"? I would bet that your real self is a lovely, joyful person who you will find once you process and release that anger and resentment.

Totally agree that ADs suppress emotion, but I found that allowed me to look at my anger instead of letting it overwhelm me (my anger expressed itself as self-hatred, and had done for most of my life). On ADs I could examine the anger, examine the reasons for it, and not die from the pain of the experience. I'm so glad I did.

Emandlu if you scroll down to the 15th June it'll give you some context to my short rant

I think I feel angry HotDAMN as Mum has always tried to fix everything when my Dad has lost it and become abusive. Excusing his behaviour and enabling it. It just stirs it all to the surface again. I am not going to fix this by taking all the blame, apologising and brushing it under the carpet to try and make Mum happy and pretend we're a happy family again. Just because he is apparently having second thoughts about his abusive texts and e-mails. No one should be spoken to like that and I do not want to pander to him any more Feel better for getting that off my chest

As ever HotDAMN you speak wise words with your further post. I do not want to be part of it anymore.

Hot I can't be on them for the rest of my life though. I will never really get closure from what happened with my parents until The End (you know what I'm saying). Because it was such a systematic campaign of nastiness which began when my Dad left when I was 9 and continued until I left home at 18. I then rebelled, lived a crazy self-sabotaging life until aged 28.

I totally get that she believes it is her who is the normal one and me who is crazy. But how to reconcile living 1. so near geographically to her and 2. allowing her to be reasonably close to her grandkids while NEVER letting her hurt me again?

I am blushing a lot aren't I? This new way of reacting to my family is unusual and a big step for me. I think that's why I am using that particular smiley a lot. This is huge for me. And very out of character.

But how to reconcile living 1. so near geographically to her and 2. allowing her to be reasonably close to her grandkids while NEVER letting her hurt me again?

Maybe those things aren't reconcilable.

Or maybe they are, if you can practice total emotional detachment while still frequently interacting with them. But that's a pretty tall order, and you don't need to feel bad if you're not able to achieve it, yet or even ever.

I do want to point out that their death may not necessarily bring closure. Maybe it will, or maybe you will feel even worse that with them gone there is NO chance they will ever acknowledge responsibility for their behaviour.

The fact is that, dead or alive, there is pretty much no chance that they will ever acknowledge responsibility for their behaviour. So now it's how you cope that counts. The closure will have to come from within, since it most likely won't come from them, or from external circumstances like death or moving.

It is huge, MomeRaths. You can be proud of yourself.

I see MomeRaths. You are doing great! Ignore ignore ignore. He should be feeling guilty. If he really was he would come and apologize. (It's so easy to say about someone else's situation isn't it)

Well I want to say a bit about my mother. She thinks that if I make different parenting choices to her that it means I am criticising the way we were brought up. She gaslights Dad regularly. I've pulled her up on it a couple of times - it's amazing how quickly she can think her way out of things.

I keep thinking I want to go back and give 8 year old me a big hug. I want to go back tothe nights where I wet the bed, but wasn't allowed to wake mum up so I would have to lie, shivering under a tiny bit of the quilt that wasn't wet in a corner of the bed that was dry. Then I'd get up early to get stuff in the washing machine to try to stop the moaning about how she would have to do more jobs now and "she was quite busy enough already dealing with you 3". If I had nightmares I wasn't allowed to wake her. I'd always try to creep round the bed to wake up dad and try not to disturb her.

There are more recent examples, but if I wrote out stuff now then I'd be a snivelling heap on the floor.

Now I just look back at myself and wonder what it was that made me so unlovable, then I try to persuade myself it wasn't me, I was a child and my mum should have been the person I could turn to. :( It's hard to see past the need to be loved though.

Oh Emandlu, just reading that bit about the 8 yr old you just made my heart break . We all have that little girl inside us, don't we? I am so glad that you are able to look at at least some of the past hurts, and eventually you will recognise that it was never about you. You are loveable and ultimately, you will learn that.

A really HUGE unMN (((((hug))))) just for you!

Emandlu, for the 8 year old you. There is/was nothing wrong with you. I think it's so hard to comprehend because loving our children and showing them love is so natural and instinctive that we cannot accept that there is no reason why it just doesn't come naturally to some people.

I have very similar experiences with bed wetting when younger but my mother was a single parent. Sometimes my brother would let me get in bed with him.
Reading your post brings back my earliest memory of my brother (we used to share a room) coming to bed and shutting the door. I was petrified of the dark (still am) and I can remember shouting to my mum for ages and when she finally came, instead of giving me a re-assuring cuddle she hammered her fists repeatedly on my back.

Today as everyone is remembering the bombings in London a thought that keeps creeping into my head is of the time when my mother told me that had I been killed in the attrocities the bombers would still have been justified in what they were doing (a friend and I were in London a few days before it happened). Does that make me self centred like her? Thinking about myself when all of those poor people were injured or lost their lives?

Emandlu: you weren't unlovable. You were very, very lovable. You just had inadequate parents who weren't able - for their own fucked-up reasons - to love their little girl actively and unconditionally.

Just because they failed doesn't mean that you were unlovable.

mampam: I don't find your thoughts strange at all. The commemoration today is triggering a memory that is very relevant to you. Nothing unhealthy about that.

Thankyou.

I know all that you've said - I just don't always feel it, My kids are 12 and 9 now, and I can't imagine them in the situation I was in. I can't imagine leaving them to shiver and worry like that.
In fact my DD is a natural worrier and I am forever telling her that as her mum it is my job to do the worrying and her job to have the fun. It always makes her laugh, and she does come and chat to me about things I'd never have brought up with my mum so I guess I'm doing something right.

I worry a lot for my SIL (brothers wife) as her mum was worse than mine, so at the moment she is Mum's new best friend. Me and my sister are getting alongside her for the inevitable fallout later. This is the same SIL that my mum rang up the night before she married my brother and had a good old rant at her down the phone. I was left in the the other room frantically trying to sort things out on my mobile. What a way to welcome someone to the family.

I need some reassurance please.

I met my mum today after having minimal contact for 4 months. Her behaviour 4 mths ago was "the straw which broke the camels back". She accused my son of ruining her birthday (untrue) and them having a major rant about and against me.

She was doing her usual skirting around, so I asked her if she had something she wanted to say to me. Basically, she wanted to know why things had changed ie I don't phone her regularly or invite her out on family trips anymore.
I told her that the comments about my son was the tipping point and that was why I have retreated. She totally denied making the comment, even though my teenagers have confirmed she did make the comment ( I was doubting myself as usual). I was very calm and said it was her choice whether or not she admitted making the comments about my son and about me.

I told her I would still help her if she asked for help, but that I would be doing my fair share (have 2 sisters), not the 90 percent I was doing before. She came out with lots of "me, me, me" comments. I was being very contained and calm and basically not reacting the way I usually do.

She then came out with the ultimate question - she asked me I'd I didn't feel responsibility for her!!!!!!!!!! I took a deep breath, even though I was gob-smacked. I told her that I didn't feel responsible for her, that my responsibilities were my children and myself. Reply, "but I'm 75".

She then started to cry. I continued being calm etc, but now I feel awful and guilty.

Any helpful comments would be appreciated.

She knows how to manipulate you. Please do not feel guilty You have siblings but you were doing 90% of the care

My Mum also conveniently forgot everything she'd said to me, when she too burst into tears about why I didn't see/ ring her anymore.

HOT damn said at the time: note how their reaction to this is not to perhaps question whether there is anything they should be doing differently, but instead to lay guilt trips on you. Because of your mum's keen feelings of sadness. Because it's all about what she wants. And who was acting like the parent and who was acting like the child.

This crying tactic usually works with my mum and she gets what she wants.

Please do not feel guilty. Keep your boundaries in place.

Have you felt better these past 4 months for this? I bet you have. It isn't wrong x

I agree with mome, you have no "duty" towards your mum (I keep telling myself this too). My grandparents never asked for help, but they received it because they were respected and didn't emotionally abuse and torment those who cared about them. I could never imagine either of them saying what your mum had said.

I don't mean to hijack but I came back today to ask everyone's opinion on this. I have cut contact with my mum, she still has my mobile number and I occassionally get texts from her but I don't reply.

It is ds's 2nd birthday next month. I am planning to have a little family party which in an ideal world would include MIL, MIL's children (it's strange thinking of them as my BILs and SILs because they're still in school!), my sister and brother and my mum.

The reality is that this could potentially be explosive as there would not be one person in the room that my mum hadn't pissed off so I don't really want her there because it would be awkward. On the other hand I do want her there because it's her first gc and my pfb's birthday!

So I have two choices:

1. Don't invite her. This will result in a torrent of abusive messages and of course she will pull out all her tricks and most likely end up in hospital again.

1. Invite her and hope she won't come anyway. From past experience she is 99% likely to say she will come then not turn up because she's "ill" or "knows she isn't wanted" etc. Then once she gets drunk enough the torrent of abusive messages will start......and you know how that ends.

I am struggling a lot with keeping ds away from her. I feel unbelievably guilty about it. It's his birthday, I don't want my memories of that ruined because I excluded one of the people who love him most in the world. If I go with option two then the ball is in her court and if she doesn't turn up it's entirely down to her.

Magneto, if you have cut contact then you don't need to send an invitation. If you need to change your number, you change it. Stick to your convictions. If she kicks off, it validates your decision to cut her out further.

it's HER choice to behave like that.

magneto i know exactly where you are coming from. I recently had a b/day party for my 4 year old and it was his first formal, kind of organized one. Every year previously my Mum has asked/implied that we are 'weird' for not having birthday parties, when really its nothing to do with her.
This one, she was the only family member invited as it was in a soft play and she really REALLY expected an invitation. She did behave well, to give credit where its due, but fouled things up at the end by TOTALLY OVERSTEPPING THE MARK. Basically I overheard her inviting one of my DS's preschool buddies (who I don't know and have never spoken to the Mum of) to her HOUSE to play when she next has my DS!! It was remarkable. So off the wall and i saw the Mum nodding in a really confused way. I know it seems like a small thing but it was typical narcissistic behaviour. Her and her DP also wore matching brightly coloured tops which rang a few bells for me "here we are! Identify us!". God what a massive bitch I am.
AAANYWAY. I just wanted to say (before I hijacked with my pathetic anecdote) that if you are worried in the slightest, don't invite her. Its highly unlikely she will not mess up by the sounds of it, and do you want such a sweet and precious occasion tarnished?

hotdamn I didn't want to post and run without acknowledging your last post regarding my issues. In fact, i wanted to say that it has really helped me a lot this week. I am really trying to retreat emotionally from both of my parents but am having massive problems doing so from my Dad who is equally difficult but in a different way.
The stuff you said though particularly about not changing THEM but changing how I respond to them has really made life a bit easier day to day. I'm nearly 40 ffs, what do I care of their opinions on how I live my life or day to day decisions that I make?
I was having coffee with a new(ish) friend last week and I mentioned how the Wedding stuff had made me feel. Then I said a little about my Dad, more factual rather than opinion or emotion. I was very shocked when she said to me "God your parents sound really really selfish". It didn't offend me but I was inexplicably embarrassed. Its true though.

Thanks for your comments, it's really good to get another perspective. Your right about perspectives and changing, her changing was not contemplated.

She has been guilt tripping me since I can remember. I fight very hard not to react to it, but it dosen't always work. As a positive, with my children and friends, if they want something, I say ask me straight, don't hint, if I can do it I will, if not then I won't.

I feel so sad, having finally realised what the real deal is with her, and that it's not my fault. At least I know what not to do with my children, ie what I went through.

I don't know what to do about my Dad - he's crap at communicating/reading non-verbal cues etc (both me and many other family members think he has Aspergers).

We've had a big bust up that boils down to him being rude, blinkered and refusing to acknowledge any of the bad stuff in our past.

My stepmum (his 2nd wife) threw me out when I was 17, and I lived in a bedsit in a different town (paid for by my Dad) for six months while I finished my A-levels.

At the time he said he wanted no part in it - my Stepmum told me to leave, so I did. He facilitated but wouldn't get involved in the details, and wouldn't even listen to what I had to say about it. (They separated a year after I moved out).

One of the things I'm really upset about (that I think I very much blocked out at the time) is that he should have stood up for me. He wrote a letter to me, basically demanding that I contact him, or at least let him have contact with the children etc etc. In this he said:

"I accept you might be going through a difficult time with issues to do with your mother and [stepmum]though I thought that our relationship had always been in good shape, and don't see why you'd be taking this out on me."

He just doesn't get it at all, does he?

I don't want to have any contact with him for a while, until the anger has settled. I've been talking to my mum (they've been divorced for 25 years now) because my Dad called her to ask why I didn't want to talk to him. She tried to explain, but in her words she "barely got a word in edgeways" and isn't sure "how much went in". I asked her to ask him to give me a month with no phone calls, no emails, no contact to try and let me take a breath. He's done that to be fair, but it's coming to the end of that time now, and I'm no more inclined to let him back in to my life again.

He's benignly neglectful, a facilitator of abuse, a bitter, righteous, prejudiced old man and I don't want anything to do with him.

However, he lent me and DH over 100k to pay off our mortgage so we could emigrate without having to sell our house. We currently rent the house, and the rent goes directly to repay the loan.

If it meant he'd leave me alone, I'd happily give him the house, although DH is (understandably!) not keen on this.

Should I just tell him what I think of him and why, and see how it goes from there?

"He's benignly neglectful, a facilitator of abuse, a bitter, righteous, prejudiced old man"

That particular description does not lend itself to someone with AS however. If he has not been officially diagnosed as having AS, you cannot assume that he is on the autistic spectrum. He equally could not be anywhere on the spectrum. Also some sections of MN far too readily associate AS with abusive behaviours when these men are actually abusive and acting as such because they can. Nothing to do with them supposedly have AS.

Arana, your Dad has and continues to act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He is your stepmothers enabler so to that above description re your dad I would also add weak bystander, selfish and enabler. Many men in such dysfunctional family units play the role of bystander.

You do not need such toxic people in your life; they certainly do not bring anything at all positive to your life do they?.

He probably also lent you the funds as a further means to control you. Toxic parents often use money to control their offspring and use money as a stick to beat their kids with. Pay the money back asap and do not obligate yourselves financially to him ever again.

I agree with Attila re the Aspergers/ abuse interplay.
STBXH is an abusive, power hungry, overbearing bully who certainly doesn't understand non-verbals or many social rules. But he can choose to be charming and empathetic when it suits him. That's the difference.
DS has confirmed Aspergers. He can be charming, polite, friendly, funny in some situations. Equally, he can get agitated, inappropriate, rude, aggressive. But he cant turn it on or off. He is either in one state or the other- it doesn't depend on who's watching.

My Dad is like your DS - it's not like he's one way with a group of people, and different with another, it's just the way he is. He's not deliberately manipulative, but he is very easily manipulated by other people. My Dad has never been empathetic in his whole life - not with me, or anyone.

I genuinely don't think he's trying to be controlling. I think he's trying to make everyone happy, and the person that shouts the loudest or the most often gets him to do what they want. I don't think he has any concept of being selfish - he thinks that because of the upbringing I had was better than his, then that absolves him of any further "responsibility" iyswim.

Many of the problems we have with communications are where one day he says something (like for example, he'll offer to pay the mortgage on the house off to save us the interest payments, or he says he'll stay all weekend), and then the next day he'll retract it, but by which point we've made plans to fit in with the previous offer. I think this is where the effect of someone else influencing him is seen, but I don't know. He's only been this bad for two periods in my life, when he was with my stepmum (he'd offer to pick me up from a friend's house at the weekend, then SM would tell him later that it wasn't possible/he was spoiling me/I should learn to stand on my own two feet, then he'd retract the offer and often leave me up shit creek and having to rely on the generosity of friends / friends' parents), and then lately with this other girlfriend (they've been together for nearly 10 years).

I don't know what I'm trying to say, it just makes life very difficult, and I think the problem is more his weakness for being influenced by powerful, controlling women (who always seem to think I'm evil, manipulative and only after money ).

I just want to know how to make it better, and if it has to be done by cutting contact, then so be it, but I need to put it into words so that he understands, and that's where I'm really struggling, because I get angry too easily.