"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

HotDamn, that is wonderful that you have the unconditional love of your Aunt and Uncle. And that is all each of us is really yearning for isn't it? For me, I have accepted that my parents are incapable of loving me unconditionally, and I am just starting the journey of learning to love and respect myself in the way they never could (as opposed to the self-loathing I learnt from them).

As for who reached out to me..... Well, I have had a couple of good counsellors over the years, and am seeing quite a good counsellor atm. When I really think about it, I'm not sure that anyone reached out to me - it was always expected that I would be the one reaching out to others.

However, I also realised this week:

"I am my own best ally, I am my own best support. I have all the skills and ability that I need to solve my own problems. I have the capability to implement my plans to the best of my ability."

Now, while I believed this in a professional sense, I had never applied it to other areas of my life. Of course while I had this insight during the week, I am still working on internalising it and truly believing it.

During a somewhat traumatic time in my life, a much wiser older gentleman once said to me "You have to save yourself". Prophetic words, don't you think?

I didn't realise this was still going! I have posted on here before but it was ages ago and I name changed. I have one of the most dysfunctional families ever and they have nearly destroyed me, but i'm still fighting and am just marking this thread so I can come back and offload when it not the middle of the night :)

SoSad - I don't think it's at all to be the one who reaches out to others, both in terms of giving to others, and in terms of reaching out for help.

None of the people who gave me support when I needed it knew what was going on until I told them. Reaching out for help is a strength, I think: it means you know you have reached your limits, but you are still doing what it takes to get yourself to a better place.

Depending on others can become a weakness, for both parties involved. But reaching out to others, adult to adult, is wisdom.

SoSad and HotDAMN you both give great advice here and on other threads I've noticed- thanks.
I can relate to always being the one who reached out to others- cos that was my role. In my family and, it seemed to me at the time, to be the only way to have friends. I had to 'buy' affection and attention by being shoulder to cry on, being there for other people, allowing them to pick me up when needed and not bother otherwise. But when I needed support......................................(thats the sound of silence).

So to hell with that; it is my nature to be a caring, considerate, thoughtful, kind person. I find it impossible to be deliberately cruel or excluding to another person. But that does not mean I have to be a carpet any more.
I now 'spend' that kindness/attention on myself and my kids only. I have no-one who loves me for me (lots of conditional love in my family) so I have to love myself. The only other option is death.

dramatic much? sorry am feeling a bit wobbly this morning

HotDamn, thank you for recognising reaching out is a strength in me. I guess am coming from the same place as Porridge. When I needed others to reach out to me..... [the sound of crickets] So Porridge, I know exactly what you are saying when you mentioned 'buying' others affection - I realised I was doing that also.

And not only does it mean that you don't have to be a carpet anymore, but once your self-esteem increases a bit, you will realise that "caring, considerate, thoughtful, kind[ness]" is a gift that you are bestowing on other people. If the people you are giving that to of your own free will aren't even grateful enough to respect that, then sod them. They don't deserve you, they don't deserve your gifts.

And don't worry about the wobblies, we all have them from time to time. Share on here, write about your insights, and most of all keep learning.

Depending on others can become a weakness, for both parties involved. But reaching out to others, adult to adult, is wisdom. THAT is wisdom HOTDamn.

Now if only I could learn how to live it as well as knowing it in my head.

Like Porridge and SoSad I too have heard a deafening silence at times when I really felt I needed help from people in my RL. And I now think that in some way feeling that I had to sort things out for myself was the only way in which I could ever have found a way forward and developed some confidence in myself.

Because I think this is true: During a somewhat traumatic time in my life, a much wiser older gentleman once said to me "You have to save yourself".

But I also know that at times I have longed for someone to just 'be there' for me and be ok when I was feeling wobbly. Perhaps that's exactly what SoSad's wise old gentleman did.

And even while I think I know all this I am still making mistakes. I will be looking out a co-dependency book.

Porridge - the wobbles come and then they go. Here has helped me with mine.

Hi, I lurk here but never really get round to posting but just need to vent a little after my mum's latest "stunt".

She has bought ds a little chair and posted a picture of it on facebook for me to see. She sent me a text asking if I liked the chair, I replied with "Yes it's very nice" and received a text saying "wow" in response. I ignored this because I can't gauge her tone. Cue a dozen texts asking me why I am angry today? and "what have I done this time?" I continued to ignore it when out of the blue she asked me if ds was ok, there is no reason why he shouldn't be and she does this all the time, saying she has had a "feeling" or dream or a bloody picture fell off the wall so therefore something bad must have happened.

Eventually the "Is ds ok?" messages turned into her asking which of our two nearest hospitals she should go to. Then my sister calls me panicking about my ds as mum has told her something has happened and she is calling all the hospitals. My sister is livid at mum for this stunt and we are both now ignoring her. The last message said "Both of you are grown women, how dare you scare me like that. I've checked all the hospitals. Nasty of you to do that to me."

Now where did either myself or my sister do anything to her? How can anyone even be this fucking delusional?

I am sorry for barging in here and ranting but I am trying to pluck up the courage to cut my mother out of my life completely. It will break her heart to lose my ds but I feel I need to do it before he is old enough for it to break his heart too. I need to get him away from her before she turns on him.

I have no idea how I'm going to do this. It will kill her (or she will kill herself) and it will be my fault. I don't hate her I just don't want to live like this anymore. I have to put ds first but everything is so twisted in her head that she will never understand why I'm doing this.

Awww Magneto, I didn't want your post to go unanswered. It seems that your mother is rather self-absorbed and turns everything into being 'about her'. I'm sorry she's like this and makes you and your sister's life hell as a consequence.

However you wrote:

"Now where did either myself or my sister do anything to her? How can anyone even be this fucking delusional?"

And this shows how rational you actually are. And its important that you hold onto this rationality and truth. You are already starting off much better than some people who cannot 'see' the truth or reality. Keep a hold of this rationality as it will help you survive your mother's antics. It is good that you already recognise her tactics - she is trying to obligate and guilt you into interacting with her.

As far as cutting off your mother goes, only you can decide when and how to do this. Eventually, as with all these sort of relationships, the will be a 'last straw on the camel's back' event, and you will decide. Unfortunately its difficult when the people who are supposed to love and nuture you unconditionally, are the very ones you need to protect yourself from.

Thank you SoSad, I'm sorry for the big rant. The problem I have is where do you draw the line if you suspect mental illness is the cause of the parent's behaviour? I feel I need to make allowances for that but I can't get her to see a doctor to confirm anything.

She has seen many psychiatrists over the years (as a result of suicide attempts) but she never sees the same one twice as she somehow manages to convince them that she is normal and it's our behaviour that drives her to act this way. How she has done this when the suicide attempts are in double figures now I don't know. Surely there comes a time when they have to do something about her?

If we leave her she will die alone, we are her only family (because she drove the rest away long long ago).

Hmmm, Magneto, I'm sorry to hear that there is more of a back story to your post. And don't worry about the rant/vent - sometime that's just what we need .

Unfortunately there are those people with some kind of mental challenge, who are just aware enough to know when they need to put on a good show. It appears your mother is still 'with it' enough to know that there are certain instances when she needs to appear 'together'.

Does she have a regular GP? Do you know her GP well? A strongly worded letter from a GP, indicating that your mother is lucid enough to 'fake normal' could really help. In these situations, if possible, it can be good for you and your sister to attend any Drs appointments your mother has so that you can point out when your mother is 'putting it on' (so to speak). However, I can just imagine how angry she would be with you in this sort of situation .

My father has Schizoid Personality Disorder, and when we were having him diagnosed for Parkinson's this is what we did. Myself and my mother attended the first lot of appointments so that my father could get a correct diagnosis. Otherwise, my father would have faked being as normal as he could, and the neurologist may have misdiagnosed.

Hope this helps...

she never sees the same one twice as she somehow manages to convince them that she is normal and it's our behaviour that drives her to act this way...Surely there comes a time when they have to do something about her?

It's really very rare for people to be sectioned. The psych team is just continuing the assumption that we have about nearly everyone in society that they remain responsible for themselves: if you mother chooses not to pursue psych treatment, no-one can make her do so.

You can do the same and hold her responsible for her own behaviour: after all, the professionals are too.

As for her convincing psychiatrists that it's you who drives her to suicide attempts... that sounds like how she chooses to view it and report it to you. Are you sure that is actually how the psych team see it? I would doubt it.

I have to put ds first but everything is so twisted in her head that she will never understand why I'm doing this.

You are right: you have to put DS first. And you are also right that she will understand things the way she chooses to understand them. And her thought processes are not your fault. You can't control them, you can't manage them, you can't cure them. Whatever she does is of her choosing.

It will kill her (or she will kill herself) and it will be my fault .
Magneto....if you are like most people, you wont get this the first time that someone says it but.....IF she decides to harm herself in this way, it is NOT your fault. Her choice. Her choice.

I understand that when you grow up with dysfunctional parents, you take on their view of the world, even though there is a part of you that knows its not true and warped a little.
I think the part of you that knows this is getting more assertive now that you have a DS to protect. That part needs the 'mum' you to stop being led by the 'little girl' you who is still looking to your mum to be your protector and advisor in the world.

It is frightening to do this. But you can do it. And it is liberating when you get there.

I say this as someone who's mother rang my sister threatening to ring the police to check my house as I had missed 3 calls from her.

''I don't hate her'' - no you dont. But the mother that you would love to have doesnt exist.
''I just don't want to live like this anymore. I have to put ds first...she will never understand why I'm doing this''. < this...sounds like you already know what you need to do.
There are many wise people here who know what you are experiencing.

Hi all - I am just dropping in with a book recommendation:

Why be happy when you could be normal?

It's not a self-help book: it's the autobiography of author Jeanette Winterson, daughter of a seriously NPD mother, from what it sounds like. It's a very slim book, and is often laugh-out-loud funny, despite the subject matter.

Her first-person descriptions of what it feels like to be raised by such a mother were insightful, beautiful, sad - the lot. I found it a great and eye-opening read.

I am still lurking and reading, but as it is my Dad who is NPD and I've only recently realised, I don't feel I'm wise enough to offer much to others. But it is helpful reading and knowing I'm not alone. Still tearful a lot and struggling with it all at times

Hi I'm so sorry to do this but I'm going to jump in here as I really need some help but I am reading and there has been some really sound advice on here since the weekend.

It's been over 18 months since NC with my parents (mother + Stepfather). On Saturday evening at my older B's wedding (I was not invited and didn't expect to be) my Grandmother (who I still have contact with) was taken ill with breathing difficulties. I found out about this on Sunday by reading my B's ex GF's (mother of one of his DC's) status update on FB.

I then had a text from my younger B letting me know about our Grandmother and later another text saying that she was doing well and was being kept in for tests. That was Sunday and the last I've heard.

Last night the phone rang at 8.30pm and as my DD went to answer it for some reason I stopped her. When I did 1471 it was my parents phone number.

I don't want them calling me. The thing is, I know my mother of old. She will see this as a way of weedling her way back into my life, calling me giving me updates about my Gran. She knows I won't tell her to F off if it's about her. The thing is I just want to screen my calls. I'll do 1471 and call the person back if it's important because I think that entertaining even a 30 second phonecall with either my Mother or SF will give her a green light to keep calling and I'm scared that it will all end up as it has so many times before where things build up gradually back to where they were before and no apology will ever be given, nothing will be talked about and I'll end up feeling like shit and be so angry inside for not standing up to her for another 30 years.

Am I being a wimp? I've come so far and I don't want to throw it all away. I'm so much happier without my mother, I can't imagine her being a part of my life as it is now.

I also know that by not talking to her I won't get regular updates about my Gran. I can't even go to see Gran in the hospital as I may run into her or one of her troops, although I would go if there was something majorly wrong (which there may be but I'll be the last to know.

I always knew that there would be tough times and incidents like this but I just don't know how to handle it.

Does any of this make any sense?

You can obtain updates on your gran on your own terms: through family members you have a good relationship with, like your younger B, or by directly calling the hospital.

Do not let fear of running into them keep you from visiting your gran, if that is what you want to do. Chances are, you will not run into them, and even if you do: you are an adult now, not the scared little girl they bring you back to, and you have the capacities of an adult. You can cope with anything they throw at you - you can, you know.

Prepare yourself mentally with what you will say/do in the event of confrontation. But know that however you end up reacting on the spot is OK. And however you end up feeling is also OK. We all do what we can, in difficult situations.

And if you do go visit your gran, and you do run into an unpleasant confrontation, then you can come back here and I promise we will give you a big virtual hug until it starts feeling OK again.

I feel for you, sweetheart. I know that someday I will be in the exact situation you are now, as my parents grow frail, and I know it will not be easy, and that I cannot plan how I'll feel at the time. I just know that I will cope with it as best I can, do what I think is right to the best of my ability, and deal with my shaken emotions however best I can manage. It's all we can do. ((((mampam))))

I did call the hospital yesterday and asked to speak to my Gran but the couldn't find her!! (As in she was in the bathroom) so I left a message sending my love. I have got 2 uncles in Oz who will probably know more than me so I will try them. I'm a little reluctant to keep on asking for information from my younger brother.

As I'm writing this I've just had a message from my Uncle (Aunts husband) giving me an update.

I could go and visit Gran on the days when I know my mother will be at work.

Yes you are right HotDAMN I have to mentally prepare myself for a confrontation. I need to stick to my principles. I need to remember that I do not want these people in my life and will not be manipulated or guilted into having them back in my life when it will make me unhappy. I need to remember not to feel guilty if I put my own feelings first.

I also find it helps sometimes to remember why I don't want them in my life. DH and I are going to sit down this evening and talk about some of the things they've done so I can reiterate to myself why I made the decision I did.

Hi Mampam, I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother.

In response to your question, no I don't think you are a wimp, in fact quite the opposite. You are setting yourself some very good boundaries for your family to protect you. It is good that you are thinking in these terms. Your dysfunctional family will not consider your feelings in their interactions with you, so you must make yourself of paramount importance and step in to protect yourself from them.

I am glad that you and your husband are discussing what has happened in the past as being unacceptable examples for what will happen in the future. Protect yourself in this case, as you are important!

mampam...I think you are on the right track. By going back over what they have done before, you get to displace the (natural) idea that this time it will be different. Or that it wasn't that bad really.

Preparing for confrontation is also a good idea. I find it helps to rehearse scenarios where I can say 'hmmm' and 'oh I see' or even 'I hear what you are saying' in response to anything.

Thank you everyone for being so kind and talking so much sense I have been keeping up with the thread but I've been ill recently and I'm trying to put my energy into recovering instead of worrying about her.

Out of the blue today I've had a variety of texts calling me a nasty piece of work and a bitch and "god forgive me" because she never will. This is because her cooker and microwave are broken and I have a spare which I won't give her for many reasons I feel are valid but others may not so I won't bore you with the details. She is constantly telling me how starving hungry she is and that it's all my fault.

I'm blocking her from my Facebook tonight, wish I could block her number from texting me but I don't think they let you do that they will only change the number which is very inconvenient for me.

I now have no mother, no father, grandparents, aunts, uncles or cousins. The only ones who haven't let me down are my grandparents but they are either dead or too old and infirm to remember my name.

I feel quite lonely tonight like there is no one left to look after me. Silly I know as I'm an adult.

And no one has looked after me in a parental way for a long time so I should be used to it, not sure why I'm feeling this way.