"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

Stupid phone!

He spoke to DD. He asked when she needed to be home but that was it. No pleasantries. His new girlfriend tried to get DS to play with her but he's shy. But my dad didn't pay DS any attention.

I'm just feeling so sad. I really don't want it to be like this. I wish he could have come in and had a cuppa first. I would like to get to know my sonn-to-be stepmother. We would probably get on well given that she's only 7 years older then me. But it can't be like that. He's made it clear that I am not important. He's been in the country all week and not asked to see me.

He told dd today he won't see her now for 4 years or so. Basically when she's 15 and can get on the plane by herself to visit him. That is not ever going to happen. I'll never send my daughter in a long haul flight with a change over by herself! She's dyslexic, and she has auditory processing disorder so would panic at the instructions and gate numbers in a foreign country especially. But he know that. But then I'm the bad one for saying no. Typical really.

I'm not sure what to do now. I doubt I'll see him before he goes home. And he never emails or calls so it will just be as normal. But is it best to just drift apart like that. I'd like him to know why I want nc but I don't want the drama of a confrontation.

Charlie, just let him go. You don't have to do a thing. Just let go. You don't need to tell him anything, no confrontation. He's gone already!

Your DD won't see him for 4 years or so, that's good. It gives you time to get over this and to start to tell her why your dad is the way he is and why you are going to step away from it all.

As for you not letting your DD on a long haul flight to see a man who despises you enough to ignore you and treat you with disdain? Who gives a long haul flying fuck what he or anyone else thinks? Your DD, your decision.

You have made that decision FOR A REASON. If there is any request for justification, you have details by the tonne. Not that you need to. You don't need to justify anything to anyone, only to yourself.

As an aside, I wonder what on earth is going through his new bride to be's head as to why there is practically ZERO contact/warmth between you and your dad, and why your dad has nothing to say to you? I hope she is bright enough to see through him. It'd be lovely if she fleeced him dry of every asset he had.... we can live in hope.

I have been reading lots of information on the site for daughters of narcisstic mothers and lots of things have clicked into place.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about my mother and the way she behaves.
It was my birthday last week (I have barely spoken to her since March). I decided that I wanted a day out with my children only. When she realised that she was not invited she left a voicemail full of snide and cutting remarks at me. Then she phoned and said how sad she was at not seeing me on my birthday as it was the fist time she was not with me on my birthday. I made a vague answer . Later on during the day I realised that it wasn't true and that I had had lots of birthdays when I hadn't seen her, so I sent her a txt pointing that out, she hasn't acknowledged the text yet (over a week ago)
I have been thinking of lots of examples of "me, me, me" from her during my life, I tried to talk to one of my sisters, but she won't acknowledge what I have said.

I feel a lot happier with the minimal contact I have had with her, but also feel sad that she wasn't the mum I thought I had, guess I am missing the mum I would like, not the one I have.

One thing which worries me is that I think she is trying to "move in" on my daughter, eg inviting her out for lunch etc. my daughter does not want to go but feels like she should. I have always stopped my mum trying to behave in the same way to my daughter. One eg, when my daughter was about 3 she told me that my mum had told her to call her mum when I wasn't around !!

Should I tell my mum that my daughter doesn't want to go? Plus it's my daughters birthday soon and my mum is telling her she will spend more money on her than other grandchildren , but daughter has to keep it a secret.

I know this is a long post, but I don't have another outlet for my thoughts/feelings.

Lazy, please listen to your DD. If she doesn't want to go, Let HER see that her request will be honoured by you.

I think you say that your DD has other plans. The Call me Mum thing would be enough for me... THE FREAK!!

I think you say that you are not going to let her do what she did to you to her. and leave it at that. Let HER join up the dots. What's she going to do? be mean to you? that's what you are MOST used to.

I think you need to suggest that birthday presents may be returned/sent to the charity shop if they are excessive, that you or your DD will not be bought.

Hi everyone, hope you are well. Just feeling the need to get this off my chest.

I have spoken up-thread about my narcissistic mother. I have now realised that my grandmother (who lived with us) was probably also a narc. My GM and M ruled the house with lies, innuendo, gaslighting, etc etc. My poor father! (Not to mention poor me! Yeah, just realised I have to show myself compassion too.) My GM died a number of years ago, but since then my narc little sister has stepped into my GM role, reinforcing my mother's bullying and being her 2nd in command.

In the 90's I went away o/s for 2 years, and managed to land a job teaching English in Japan, with a really nice group of people. I realise now that that particular job helped me to understand that not everyone is dysfunctional, or needs to pick arguments and have percieved slights over inoccuous comments.

On returning from Japan, I found my sister had started a campaign of betrayal and rewriting history against me. Apparently I was the cause of all her problems, and I had done a whole load of unmentionable things to her. She managed to turn 2 cousins against me and they started a system of abuse and bullying whereby I became their scapegoat. After 3 years of this treatment, I had had enough and turned my back on the three of them. My sister has tried to apologise, but each time, it has been lip service, and the rebuilding of a relationship (from her end) has never eventuated. Its been over 10 years since I last spoke to my sister.

I'm not sure that there is a lot of point to this post other than to get it out there and read by others. Today, I have felt hurt, irritation, anger, upset and betrayal, and am working through these emotions. At the moment, I am feeling an enormous sadness. The thing is, I was taught how to 'see' reality by my parents, and I know my sister can 'see' at least some reality, but its like interacting with people who can only 'see' some of the parts of the puzzle, and not others.

Sometime ignorance is bliss..... Sigh.

I'm so sorry Sad, that is very painful.

Feeling empty today, as it is Fathers day and my Dad cannot stand me. I didn't send him a card, HotDAMN was right, it was an absurd idea by my Mother.

I'm divorced as my ExH left me a long time ago for a family friend. My marriage was a byproduct of my difficult childhood I've realised and choosing a bad partner for life. But now I'm starting to realise this, I hope I can make better choices for my future and my children's future. I have some reading to do

Charlie/Lazy hissy gives good advice- thank you hissy.

SoSad it seems to me from what I've read that these patterns do run in families...and parents who treat us this way 'learned' these traits from their own parents. I struggle to have compassion for my mother though, and for my sister who is copying her- it's their choice to get their sense of love/power by lording over me; as a child it was my only choice to take it.

I have other choices now.

I think you are right when you say that one has to feel the anger first, accept that what happened was wrong and determine that you/I will not allow them to do this again.
This is the bit I am struggling with- that this is their pattern, that their occasional forays into nice/supportive behaviour are the oddities not the norm, that the best choice for me is truely to go low/no contact.
I forget this when they are being 'nice'...when really 'nice' is luring me in to resume my scapegoating role.

Is 'ignorance' bliss? I dont know- personally I have spent so much time after family encounters feeling anything but blissful. And when I am keeping them at a distance its harder for me to manage kids/school/work/house but at least I can do that with a peaceful mind.

MomeRaths...well done on not sending a card. It was the right thing to do for you.
I do think that pulling away from dysfunctional parents/siblings leaves an empty space a bit like de-cluttering your wardrobe. Clinging on to old stuff is understandable as its familiar and worn in.
The fear of the empty space can be over-whelming(what will I wear/who will love me). But it leaves room for new and better choices. (am just working that out for myself)

I love the comment above about de-cluttering your wardrobe and pulling away from your family and the fear of who will love you. It's spot on.

I?m not sure where to post this but as a lot of the problems and the complexity of my situation stem from having a difficult family I thought I would start on this thread.

My situation is this:

I?ve been married for one year to DH who is a kind, generous, funny and reliable man. He is also depressed and has been having (what look very much to me like ) panic attacks over the last 6 or so months.

The thing is that DH says all of this is down to my family and that they have ruined everything and doomed our marriage from the start. He says there is no point to anti-depressants as they just mask the real problem and you need to sort out the situation that is causing it (not sure if he means our marriage or my family). He says counselling only makes things worse and that there is nothing he can do, he?ll just have to accept that he will die young.

It is absolutely true that I have been through a torrid time with my family and have re-assessed my relationship with them in recent years. They are no way as bad as some of the families some brave people on here are dealing with - but they are their own kind of nightmare :)

About four years ago they dropped a bombshell on me which rocked the foundations of my identity. They told me I had a sibling, conceived out of marriage, who had then been adopted. I felt that I had been lied to my whole life and that the family I thought existed was actually a lie. I was also really happy and excited at having another relative.

My parents were very upset that this secret had come to light and didn?t know what to do - so I tried to help them deal with it all. They never asked how I felt about it. I wanted us to talk about it as a family and decide what we would do, I thought we would work it all out. My mother ended up telling me if I ever brought it up again she would have nothing more to do with me and that I was simply a troublemaker who got off on upsetting her.

I totally understand that it must be very hard for her but that really hurt.

I started therapy (18 months ago) to help me with this family situation and in the course of that I realised that my mother is probably somewhat narcissistic. (!). She ignored me on my wedding day and then denied she?d done anything wrong. There is nothing at all unusual about that sort of behaviour from her. It still cut me to the very quick of my heart.

I worked through all the anger, fear, rage and grief that went with the realisation that my mother is only really interested in me so long as I am prepared to act as a dustbin for her own feelings of anger, shame and insecurity and whatever else. I am no longer prepared to do that.

It must have been hard on DH to be with me as I went through all of that and especially hard as it was during the first year of our marriage. The thing is no matter how much I tried to explain he could never understand why it all upset me so much and why my family didn?t just sort it out, meet up with long lost child and be happy. I would have loved that too but I can?t just make my family behave as I want them to. They have now finally, painfully, moved towards meeting their adopted child in the near future.

DH freaks out whenever I tried to talk about all this with him saying it stresses him out and he can't cope. It's MY family for heaven's sake - it's not really about him. I just need a hug from my husband from time to time!

DH blames my family for his chest pains and says the stress is all too much for him and that there is something wrong with me. I love him, I want to help him, but I?m sick of catching the blame.

Oh dear. I?m so sorry this is so long.

Any thoughts lovelies? A bit of me is worried I have married my mother.

The thing is that DH says all of this is down to my family and that they have ruined everything and doomed our marriage from the start. He says there is no point to anti-depressants as they just mask the real problem and you need to sort out the situation that is causing it (not sure if he means our marriage or my family). He says counselling only makes things worse and that there is nothing he can do, he?ll just have to accept that he will die young.

That does seem rather melodramatic and woe is me. He needs to speak to the GP. Your husband should support you, not leave you to manage/ cope on your own

Perhaps some more detail would explain this rather strange comment of his above. Does your mum interfere a lot, has she done other things to upset you since ignoring you at the wedding? How is your marriage in general?

Sorry for the third degree, his behaviour just seems so odd on what you've described so far.

Yes re-reading it, there is definitely something amiss with your H's behaviour here. I'm not as wise as some on here but it's all very strange

What does he want you to do? Ignore your family so or keep a distance from them.

DH blames my family for his chest pains and says the stress is all too much for him and that there is something wrong with me. I love him, I want to help him, but I?m sick of catching the blame.

my mother is only really interested in me so long as I am prepared to act as a dustbin for her own feelings of anger, shame and insecurity and whatever else.

Do you see parallels here, MmeDefarge?

Sounds like two people who like to blame others, notably you, for feelings and issues that are their own responsibility to deal with.

Thank you for replying. I am really grateful

I have probably conflated some of his comments together - although they are all things that he said last night. And he has said most of them repeatedly over the last year or so.

I was devastated by mum ignoring me at my wedding - I beat myself up over it and cried many tears. My husband rightly said don't let her get to you but at that time I was still thinking that if she was horrible to me it was because of something I had done. Therapy has helped me get it straight in my head that all the times she has been mean to me are about her and not about me or how I behave - as she always claims.

She doesn't interfere but she denied that she had ignored me/ been angry with me (because the focus was not on her probably) and for the first time in my life I didn't crumble and fall in line with her version of events. I stuck to my guns and had faith that how I saw things was actually real. Doing this was a strain and that combined with the stress I felt over the whole adoption scenario made me fear I would lose my family. But I was ready to do that if i had to in order to hold onto my truth.

I agree that DH's comments are melodramatic and I can't really grasp why he reacts like this. I feel sure it is something to do with his life and family more than mine.

Pateran - I don't know what he wants me to do. He was angry that I was prepared to distance myself from them and criticised me for it. He wanted it all 'sorted out' I think that means everyone should get along and love each other and be happy - sounds brilliant but it's not really in my control. Now he says he doesn't want to see any of my family at all - not even my nice aunt whom I have grown closer to in an attempt to answer the question 'if I don't speak to my parents, who will love me'.

I feel really muddled.

HotDAMN - you are absolutely right. I just wonder if I have always been prone to accept that blame onto my own shoulders. I think perhaps now that I have decided not to let my mum do it anymore - I am also refusing to accept DH's blame and he is;

a) not sure what is happening.
b) can't cope with his own emotions if I am now not taking on responsibility for them.

I guess firm boundaries are a new thing for me (and him?) and I feel unsure if I am 'doing it right'. And it is hard to be dealing with my own / family stuff with DH somehow coat-tailing his own emotional difficulties onto that situation.

DontStep: Does your mum interfere a lot, has she done other things to upset you since ignoring you at the wedding? How is your marriage in general?

*
I've tried to answer the interfering question already. My mum doesn't interfere on the whole. The ignoring at the wedding thing was sort of a straw that broke the camel's back for me.

In the last few years I was finding it almost impossible to keep up a relationship with my parents without being allowed to mention the adoption on pain of ex-communication. My mum - conversely - kept bringing up the adoption but only so she could talk about it, not hear anything I wanted to say. That situation upset me. DH could never understand why.

I've had a few comments from other relatives over the last few years telling me that I should be kind to my mum and that I'm not kind to her. Also some relatives/ family friends suddenly approaching me with caution as if I am about to explode in an anger at them. I just believe that my mum is going round doing a victim act and painting me as the bad guy - but of course marvellous mother that she is she still feels sorry for me etc. Every time i got this kind of comment or reaction from someone it upset me - but it's quite tricky to counteract it other than by just ignoring it.

Our marriage in general?! I don't know what to say. DH has been yelling about my family and asking me to sort it all out since shortly after we got married. He always said my family should meet up with long lost sibling - I always agreed - now that meeting will happen soon but DH is still banging on about how nothing has changed and my family need to 'sort it out'.

DH and I don't go out together very often but we have had some nice days out and weekends away recently. We still get on ok generally.

Sometimes - often - when I chat to him about something that happened at work, or something in the news or somewhere I've been with friends he gets this look on his face as if it is all too much to understand and he can't fathom out what I am saying or respond to it. It's as if I'm shouting to him underwater and he can't make out what I am saying.

And everything is doomed and every problem or tear or cross word is the fault of my family/ me - as far as DH is concerned. He has told me he sometimes wishes a car would just run him over and end it all. There is no doubt in my mind that he is depressed.

DH has been to the doctor who has apparently said he is suffering from stress and will probably die of a heart attack if nothing is done. DH has not told me what treatment the doctor suggests but DH is being sent for an ECG.

Twice in the last two or three years the doctor has suggested anti-depressants to DH who has refused them. I seem to remember DH blamed all of that stress on his job but he has a new one now.

DH is in trouble and needs helps - what do I do?

DH is in trouble and needs helps - what do I do?

He is an adult, and he is getting help: he goes to see his GP and is being sent for tests.
You are no more responsible for managing or curing his depression than you are for your mother's tantrums.

You should focus on taking care of yourself - all the more so if you have a depressed husband. The fallout form depression on family members is also very difficult. Make sure you are getting the support that you need, and remember: depression has never meant that the sufferer is no longer accountable for his own behaviour.

You say you feel muddled, but I see a lot of insight in your posts.

Are you still going to therapy? That would be a great place to explore boundaries and responsibility: where ours ends and others begins.

^You are no more responsible for managing or curing his depression than you are for your mother's tantrums.

You should focus on taking care of yourself - all the more so if you have a depressed husband.^

Yes. And when he says he is depressed because of me and my family what words do I say? "You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment."?

It is hard to take care of myself as I have moved to live in DH's house which means a 90 min commute to work and I am at least that or more away from my friends. I don't know anyone near here. My parents - obviously - make out that if there are problems in our marriage it must be down to me as I am such a troublemaker. I regret I ever mentioned our problems to them about it but I was feeling desperate.

I guess I am scared that if our marriage fails it will simply be proof that all the problems in my family were my fault.

DH is not a bad or horrible person but I just wish he would go and get some therapy and be better already. It is hard to accept that I can't make him do that and that - for the moment - he prefers to sit around feeling dark and blaming me.

I think if I was on my old home patch this would be easier but I feel very much on my own here. Thank you for taking the time to reply and being another human being out there somewhere.

I'm glad you think I have some insight - means the therapy was money well spent :)

And when he says he is depressed because of me and my family what words do I say?

If he says that, then he is an arse.

How about: "If I'm so awful then you won't mind me leaving then." And do.

Seriously for you here, MmeDefarge. What he is doing is making you feel shit and guilty so you will scurry around trying to make it up to him. Just like your mother. He is playing on your insecurities and your eagerness to please and nurture those around you. If he really, seriously thought that you and your family were the cause of his depression, he would get the fuck away from you. But he's not doing that, is he? No, he's using a well-known tool of manipulation to put you right where he wants you: wrong-footed and feeling you "owe" him.

My abusive ex-h said the same to me, by the way.
And the only thing my mother told me at my wedding was, crossly, "Why didn't you instruct the photographer to take more pictures of me?"

These mothers trained us to put up with such men, when no-one with healthy self-esteem would.

MmeDeFarge I am nodding along in recognition of the issues in your posts.
As HotDamn says you seem to have loads of insight so I think you will be ok.

If 'D'H says his depression is the result of you and your family, you dont have to respond at all. Thats his stuff and if he chooses to believe that, if he chooses not to take his GP's advice, if he chooses to blame you/work/his family/ the world for his problems that nothing to do with you.
If you feel you have to respond how about 'I'm sorry that you feel depressed, I understand that you find this stressful'.End of.
You have plenty on your plate with your own family.

In reverse of you, it was when my abusive ExH left me and our DC that I started to stand up for myself. Now I am realising that what I learned from my own mother was what made me a target for an abusive man. And I am trying to detach from my family in the way that I did from him.
Like you, I was the difficult one in my family (scapegoats- we are difficult because we tell the truth of what going on and dont go along with the cover-ups).
I found 'Co-dependent no more' good from my local library.

Apologies MmeDefarge, as I realise the conversation has been about your family.....

Hi there Porridge, I was wondering how you were and how you were getting on . You said:

"Now I am realising that what I learned from my own mother was what made me a target for an abusive man."

I am applauding you and the insight you are developing. Its absolutely wonderful that you are unravelling all the dysfunction that your family has put you through over the years. I know it causes a great deal of upset and emotion to think about it, but as you are learning, each knot that you unravel leads to growth in yourself. Congratulations on developing your own insight - I can't tell you how rare it is for a person to have any insight whatsoever. It will serve you well for the rest of your life.

Keep going sweetie, you will get there. In time, when you are ready, a good book on self esteem will help you take even further steps. I was reading, and am still doing the exercises from, the Six Pillars of Self Esteem by Nathanial Branden, just one example of a really good self esteem book.

Wonderful Porridge, just wonderful .

Not at all SoSad007. There are other things going on the world apart from my family - although it doesn't seem like it sometimes when I am looking at the world through my eyes.

I too had the first inkling that my mother was a nightmare when I got into a verbally abusive relationship. It all seemed so familiar and I knew straight away who it reminded me of but I just went right ahead with it anyway.

It was only the revelation of that huge family secret that jolted my reality to the point where I could believe what I knew deep down about my mother. That missing piece of the jigsaw made so many things make sense all of a sudden and answered so many questions that I guess I was able to begin to believe in my own perceptions about other things.

It has been terrifying and even traumatic but ultimately it has been a gift.

Porridge and HOTDamn - it is wonderful to hear from other scapegoats. Not wonderful that we had to go through that, but I feel steadied by hearing that others know and understand. And yes, we are 'difficult' because we tell the truth.

Do you know this line from Bob Dylan 'to live outside the law you must be honest'? I think of it as my scapegoat's motto.

It can be a lonely journey untangling your dysfunctional family dynamic. I know that i have been a PITA at time over the years because of where I've come from.

DH is going through this same thing right now - or rather he is refusing to look at his family by looking at me and mine instead. I feel for him because i remember those tough confused times in my own life all too well.

I look back on myself at those sad, raw, angry times and wonder what would have helped me - if anything. Just wondering who has reached out to you all in your darker moments and how?

Aw SoSad thank you so much! what a lovely thing to come back and say!
I do at times wonder if maybe my family are right and I really am the difficult, socially phobic, highly strung, difficult one. Until I come here and see things like this and get re-affirmed what is really the truth. And of course, telling myself the truth actually feels a hell of a lot better.
SoSad you are my cheerleader- I am smiling and tearing up at the same time.

Mme, we must have cross posted.
Who reached out? For me it has been my wonderful counselor to whom I am indebted. I was so lucky to get a good one. Who let me peel back the layers by myself but supported me when I started to 'see' what was really going on first with my STBshittyXH. And then with my FOO (family of origin).
And who accepted that I have been a PITA too at a lot of times but as she says 'you did the best you could with what you had'.

I also find here so helpful....often me 'giving advice' is really me working stuff out for me- cos it seems so obvious when you're outside someone else's problem until you see that it applies to your own situation too.
Sometimes I need a shake too; someone saying what the hell are you putting up with that for?

Counselling has been great for me too.

Interesting to hear that you giving advice is often you working things through for yourself too. Getting some perspective on here has been really helpful for me - and has helped with that fear that it is all me being 'difficult' after all. Like you, I have a tendency to start thinking maybe my family is right in their view of me.

I'm going to go back and read your earlier posts Porridge. And sorry to hear about your shitty ex-H. (Blows a big raspberry at him and waves some special hand-gestures at him too.)

Who reached out? Who answers the question of "who will love me?". Fo me it is also my wonderful aunt and uncle - both conscious survivors of dysfunctional FOOs and first marriages.

As a child, my sister and I would joke that they were our "surrogate parents". We hadn't yet realised how inadequate our parents were, but we sure did notice that these two particular adults treated us as full human beings, worthy of respect and consideration. Unlike our actual parents. Even though they live an ocean away, they are the ones I went to when I was considering leaving my violent and abusive ex-H, and again a year later when I was considering confronting my parents on their behaviour.

I was afraid that they would be shocked and reject me for being a bad daughter, but instead what they said when I told them I wanted to confront my parents, and was afraid that they would think less of me for it, was: "There is nothing you could do to lose our love."

So when I feel unlovable, and I know that this just harkens back to my parents not being able or willing to love me adequately, I think about my aunt and uncle saying that. Knowing that somebody out there loves me helps me to build my own belief that I am lovable just because - I know external validation is a crutch; I'm still working on the strength to walk without it.