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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

singingprincess · 28/01/2012 13:25

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

OP posts:
Sewilma · 14/04/2012 16:47

Pluckingupcourage I've read your posts upthread and I'm sending you big hugs.

Estrangement is definitely still a taboo. Everyone thinks in terms of black and white and if the abuser manages to manipulate everyone onto "their side" leaving you standing alone, then people outside and family members find it easier to think of you being the problem rather than the abuser / manipulater who has everyone else onside.

Share your grief with everyone here if you want to, if you find it helps.

It's been 2 years and I still find myself missing my Mum sometimes but then I have to remember why I've cut contact. It's like a guilt installment plan but I've paid with interest, I had to get away.

She completely destroyed my ability to trust and I lost myself but slowly I've built up some good friends (they only know bits and pieces) and I'm lucky that DH is supportive but I think he find it hard to comphrend how someone who is a mother can behave the way mine did.

I've found with MN that you are never alone, and you aren't on your own plucking xx

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 14/04/2012 17:34

at the same time I cannot share my grief eg with friends/colleagues as it is too complicated to explain. Estrangement is a massive taboo but too little attention is paid to the consequences.

I thought that too. But my experience has been that people are, yes, shocked by my revelation, but they combine that with empathy rather than disapproval: it is indeed such a taboo to estrange family, that they figure I must have pretty serious reasons to have gone so far (and a few examples I give of my parents' behaviour usually confirms that view).

I have even found friends sharing their own difficulties with their parents - one is fighting her toxic MIL's attempts to get access to her son (MIL's grandson) through court action. Many more have shared tales of parents calling them names, favouring other siblings, etc. As the number of posters on the many Stately Homes threads over the years prove, we are not alone. Some of the people we know will be in the same boat. Most of the others will feel sorry for us and supportive.

Only one of my friends did the disapproving "But they're your parents!" reaction when I told her of going NC. But when I look at her family, I see the same parents as mine (with genders reversed), so I think her reaction has more to do with her own issues wrt to her parents (as in, she is not ready to contemplate their behaviour as toxic).

pluckingupcourage · 14/04/2012 23:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 15/04/2012 08:26

The exhaustion and absent-mindedness will eventually pass, plucking. I spent a few months like that last year. I was depressed and on ADs at the time, and trying to make sense of my life having come crashing down around me (miscarriage, realizing that then-H was violent and abusive, leaving him, then realizing that my parents had trained me for abuse).

I forget: are you getting counseling? If you are, your counsellor would be an excellent person to talk through your letter with.

Mail the letter when you want to. It took me close to a year of toying with the idea before one day I just sat down and wrote it in one jot, and sent it. I don't know why it was then, but that was just the moment I was ready. Perhaps, as your husband astutely says, because that was the moment when I no longer cared what they or anyone else would think of me writing such a letter.

The reaction I feared the most, in fact, was not my parents' , but the one from 3 other family members who I love dearly. But I was ready for them to cut me off in turn, if that was what they chose to do. Their reaction turned out to be beyond my wildest hopes: they only heard my parents' side of the story, and even then they understood and called to tell me that I had been very courageous; that they wished they had done something similar themselves years ago; that it was a very loving act, in fact, to give my parents a chance to take a look at their actions and acknowledge my feelings. But then, they are people who have taken a hard look at abuse in their own lives, so they understand the need to break out of the system.

Last night I dreamt that I was shouting and swearing at my mother, and it felt good. It's the second time I've had a dream like that, and they are very vivid. Except that in my dreams, my mother shuts up and listens. Which is not how it would go in real life.

pluckingupcourage · 15/04/2012 14:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 15/04/2012 17:39

Could you have another series of sessions with the therapist at the specialist charity?

pluckingupcourage · 15/04/2012 19:09

Unfortunately they limit the number (don't want to say how many as I think it will out where I am) due to the waiting list they have and I had more than the limit. I have dropped them a line to say what I'm about to do, so we'll see.

Lemonylemon · 16/04/2012 11:35

Sorry folks, just going to brain dump here....... will get back and catch up with thread later....

This morning, my sister (golden child) has just admitted that my Mum used to feed her misinformation about my brother and I and at times my sister became so angry with us that she couldn't speak to us..... How toxic is THAT???

Sorry, I'm just having to try to process that little nugget on top of coming to terms with the fact that my Mum is going to die in the next few months and trying to help my son and daughter through all this. My son's grandad has also just been diagnosed with cancer..... Gah, it doesn't rain, it pours!

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 16/04/2012 11:41

Sounds like Golden Child Sister is questioning the dysfunction and beginning to see it for what it is: this could be the start of something good for you (a validating witness of your childhood).

What do you feel you still need to come to terms with wrt your Mum? Would it help you to lay it out here?

Your children also have a lot to cope with as well right now. It sounds like such a tough time for all of you. But "this too shall pass".

mampam · 16/04/2012 12:13

I know what you mean plucking about sharing with others. To be honest my mother is such a fantastic Narc that she has everyone thinking she is wonderful. It's hard to explain to others as it sounds as if I'm being petty. TBH how could you explain it anyway without sitting down and spending hours explaining it all - that's how I feel anyhow. Yet if I don't say something I feel like I'm not sticking up for myself.

I know in my own mind that I could not have carried on in a relationship with my mother. For my own sanity, the sake of my DC's and DH I just had to do it and TBH it feels wonderful. I can be me. There are hard times but the good certainly outweigh the bad Smile

plucking I too get flashbacks in fact that is how I started on this road really. I started getting flashbacks during my last pregnancy of my childhood. Things I hadn't thought about in such a long time/if ever since they happened. The flashbacks teamed with how my mother was behaving towards me at that time prompted me to go to counselling. I had had counselling before but had never spoken about my mother. This time it became clear that a whole host of problems that I have/had all had networks that lead straight back to her. I hope you manage to get more counselling.

lemony Sometimes yes it doesn't just rain but it pours. I'm sorry for your situation and I'm sure you're strong enough to help your DC's through this but don't forget your own feelings. Be kind to yourself. Just because your mum is dying doesn't make any less the pain she has caused you, don't feel guilty.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 16/04/2012 12:32

Re: sharing with others. There is no-one who you need to "convince" about the rightness of your choice, and the wrongness of your parents' behaviour. It may seem important to obtain other people's approval, but you don't need it. The only person who needs to be convinced is you.

So: are you right to state your limits? To protect yourself as you see fit?

pluckingupcourage · 16/04/2012 16:24

mampam exactly - it makes me feel exhausted to even begin to explain the circumstances to others. Did you ever confront your mother and really have it out with her? Or did you just decide to have no further contact?

lemony I don't think you can let the fact that your mother is dying undermine your need for your truth to be heard and closure.

HotDAMN I know - I need to keep my eye on the prize, which is to give little plucking the voice and protection she deserved.

Lazydaisy55 · 16/04/2012 19:16

I have thought a lot about posting here - just wanted to express some of the things I have experienced from my mother . Guilt tripping is a favourite of hers, a good way of getting her own way. She was so bad I moved 250 miles away from home and stayed there for 12 years. The feeling that she stopped loving me when I was about 9. My youngest sister being the golden child.
Being very passive aggressive. I have started to defend myself, which makes it worse because she has always has to be right.
Making me feel responsible for her welfare, to the extent of taking money from me when I was a student.
The view told to everyone that I was a difficult teenager. Putting me down at every chance. Always saying she would help out with my daughter, but never actually doing much.
Re-writing the past, with her as the victim.
Making nasty comments to my children about me and expecting them to agree.
The first words to me after I took an overdose we're "how could you do this to me"

There are lots more, but I don't want to bore people. Is she narcissistic or just odd?

mampam · 16/04/2012 21:26

plucking no I never had it out with my mother. At the time when I decided to cut contact with her I was so angry with her I would have just shouted, ranted, cryed, I wouldn't have been able to keep my head and she would've been able to turn it back onto me. I also didn't feel strong enough to face her, I had a lot going on, she had got in contact with my real dad, never spoken about him my whole life, I found out she wouldn't let him contact me and after that bombshell she disappeared for weeks without so much of an explaination, I had so many questions and was emotionally exhausted.

Now I almost wish I had have had it out with her but I know it wouldn't have done any good. She wouldn't have listened or accepted what she had done to me. I have thought about writing a letter but I think I am best just ignoring her now. I know it will be killing her that I don't bite when she's tried to dangle the carrot and I take great pleasure from that Grin

Are you going to send your letter plucking? I think where other members of the family are concerned it helps to come up with lots of answers to possible comments that they will make. Be prepared. My Grandmother tried the whole " are you still not talking to your mum?.........oh it's such a shame cos I know she misses the kids......" I had prepared myself for this and told her in no uncertain terms that there were things that had gone on between myself and my mother that no one knew about and that I would not ever be speaking to her again.

I also had a mutual aqaintence of both of ours trying to tell me how lovely my mother is and how she always had a smile of her face, I replied "it's a shame she never smiles at me".

Most recently I had a so called friend of mine who clearly had been talking to my mother tell me that I'm beautiful because I get it from my mother, to that I replied " the only thing I get from her is how not to be a shit mother to my kids".

I can come out with things like that when put on the spot but it's when people specifically ask why I've fallen out with my mother that I find it hard to explain.

Lazydaisy I could tick many of the points on your list. I definitely think your mother is a narcissist. Keep posting as and when you feel the need, you'll get some great support on this thread and advice too if you want it.

pluckingupcourage · 17/04/2012 02:03

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoSad007 · 17/04/2012 04:13

Wow, so many similarities :(, its hard to know where to start.....

Lazydaisy, yes I agree with mampam that its likely that your mother is a narcissist. The things that stick out to me are that she doesn't want you to have a self esteem that is higher than hers. So she uses horibble put downs to you. Good lord, how horrible! :(

Mampam, no words of advice or anything. I feel for you and what you are battling with and just want to make sure that you feel heard. Thanks

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 17/04/2012 09:21

Lazydaisy my mother is the same. It helped me to read descriptions of narcissistic and borderline personality disorder traits and recognise her behaviour in them: it helped me to realise that I was not crazy; that it is OK to be upset at this behaviour.

But I don't need the label anymore - and indeed, without a medical diagnosis, I can't confirm it. However, I have now gotten to the stage where it is enough for me to know that I do not need to tolerate any behaviour that I do not like, whether it is narcissism or anything else. I have finally come to the stage where I am confident that I have the right to protect myself against any behaviour I choose.

Using the narcissist label helped me get to that stage, though. So do read up on the disorder online: it will surely be very cathartic!

Lazydaisy55 · 17/04/2012 13:14

Thank you for the replies, (I cant do the highlighting)
I will have a search online for some information on narcissism.
I have remembered some more examples of her behaviour , when I was a child if my sister and I did something which annoyed/upset her she would stop talking to us, it would go on for days until we apologised to her for upsetting her. We would apologise just to get her to speak to us again. God knows why my father let her get away with this! He definitely was not dominated by her.

On her last birthday, on the way home from her birthday meal she made a snide comment about me reading a "good" newspaper, I stuck up for myself so that unleashed lots of negative comments about me in front of my kids. A few days later I phoned her, she turned everything round and claimed that my son had ruined her birthday by saying he was hungry later in the evening!
I was so stunned by her comment that I didn't say anything.

That's the last time I am going to so much trouble for her. I have come to the conclusion that she dosen't like me, and I don't like her as a person.

I have tried so many times to sort things out with her, I'm not going to bother anymore. The golden child (who uses her and does nothing in return) and her can be happy together.

This is making my head hurt!

The only thing I have gained is how not to be a mother like her, and do the exact opposite.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/04/2012 14:15

lazydaisy

There is a good website online entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers; I think reading that could well help you.

It is not your fault your mother is like this and you did not make her this way (her own birth family did that). The golden child role within the dysfunctional family unit is also a role not without price or condition though your sister likely does not realise this.

My DH has recently admitted that he believes his father to be a narcissist, something I realised myself a long time before now.

You will manage just fine without these two in your life.

mampam · 17/04/2012 15:12

Lazydaisy Attila is right the website Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers is excellent and could really help you. I go to the website when I'm doubting myself and it just confirms to me that I'm not insane and it is her not me. I suspect that you will read through some of the main descriptions of behaviour and be able to totally relate it back to how your mother behaves towards you. I know I can tick virtually every point.

Attila has your DH been in denial then or just been totally oblivious to his father?

My older brother is the golden child in our family. Although I now realise that he too is a total Narc. I recognise the same traits in him as my mother. His ex gf whom he treated appallingly and made her out to be a total liar and psycho (long story) has told me things about him that I instantly know to be true because they are the same things our mother has said/done to us. I agree with Attila that being the golden child is not without consequence. My brother has cheated on every gf/wife he's ever had. He's getting married for the third time and is about to have his fifth child (that we know about) with a fourth woman. He is incapable of a relationship and I expect he will end up very old and lonely. It doesn't matter how badly he has treated the women/children in his life my mother/step-father/grandparents always think his shit smells of roses and I don't think this has helped one bit. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/04/2012 15:18

Hi mampam,

I would say oblivious till now but he has never taken very much notice of his dad anyway. He is far more caring of his mother. His mother (professional victim and a dysfunctional piece of work in her own right) has made it out to be that she was the one who brought them up whilst her H did nothing. She did not do at all well with regards to my narc BIL.

My FIL is also the epitome of the bystander; he is a weak man who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. The rose tinted specs regarding his parents are peeling away gradually from my H's eyes.

twinkletwinkleoldbat · 17/04/2012 21:03

Just venting here as I can't put it anywhere else and am sooooooo angry. Haven't seen/spoken to parents since massive row two weeks ago when my dad insulted me and dh horribly in front of the kids then stormed out ranting. Mother has been sending snippy texts ever since pretending nothing ever happened and asking me to bring the kids to see her, in increasingly demanding tones. Now dh gets a text from my mum tonight saying that grandfather (dad's dad) has 24hrs to live. They couldn't even speak to me to tell me my gradfather was dying!! And I feel so mean for thinking this, but they have form for fake medical bombshells.....so I don't know what to think. I want to get a message to him that I love him but can't send it via them as they would snap at me and not pass it on. And all I can think about is going to his funeral and them being vile to me - which I know is totally selfish under the circs. but as I say, just venting. Aaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhh.

pluckingupcourage · 19/04/2012 15:34

this is dreadful twinkle! I have a similar experience of fake medical bombshells (which were useful for shutting me up!) and so it is hard to know whether or not this is just another manipulation! I think you need to take care of yourself and if they have used your grandfather's death as a weapon against you, then that speaks volumes about how toxic they are. I would take some time out and consider your next move for your (and your DCs') best interests. I really hope you're doing OK.

Here I am getting psyched up to send the letters to family. I have to send a number of the letters abroad, so I am going to send them slightly earlier than the others. I have a slightly leftfield question: do I need to give a return address if I send something as a registered letter in the UK?

pluckingupcourage · 21/04/2012 01:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 21/04/2012 07:09

I shall have to spend some time constructing a new identity of a good STRONG person who stands up for what's right rather than keeping the peace at all costs. I wonder who I'll be in 10 years time after these letters.

I like that. Very well put. And an exciting prospect!

I think you're finding the real you, plucking. The one who knows what she will and will not tolerate, and who feels entitled to state her limits.