"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

Hi everyone. I?ve been lurking on MN for a few months now, trying to understand where my problems fit into. I hope that its ok for me to post my story here.

My back story is rather complicated. Both my parents worked during my childhood and I was raised by my maternal grandmother who lived with us. GM set up a rivalry between me and my younger sister which eventually lead to my sister and I being estranged for the last 10 years. My mother is a narcissist and my father has undiagnosed schizoid personality disorder. During my childhood years, my father physically abused my mother, and I am still dealing with the fallout of watching that as a child (I am now in my 40?s).

When I was 15 my mother left my father, running away to her sister?s 400kms away. If course my sister and I were distraught, and he went and brought her back. At the time I can remember thinking ?Good, she finally got away?, and then immediately after ?Why didn?t she take us? Why did she leave us with him?? Anyway because my sister and I were so unhappy, he drove the 400kms to our aunt?s house and brought my mother back. When they arrived home, I can remember both of them behaving as if nothing had happened. The physical abuse on my mother seemed to stop there.

When I was 17, my father turned the physical abuse on me. We had had an argument about something, and he came at me, knocking my glasses off my face, and pushing me over. I thought ?Oh god, he?s starting on me!? Self preservation kicked in, and I managed to kick him in the balls. He never tried that again. That didn't stop the mental or emotional neglect of course.

However, I?ve come to realise that my mother is the real problem lately and my father enables her. She is controlling, wants to be the centre of everything, and tries hard to pry into my life. I won?t have it. I limit the contact I have with her and my father, and am considering limiting it even further. They are not well people, but of course both have gaslighted me on occasions where my version of events did not match their view of themselves. They believe they were great parents and were always there for me, a paragon of parenthood. The reality is that they were physically, mentally and emotionally distant, although we never went without food or clothes, they were never there for me when I needed them and consequently, I rarely look to them for support. Their personal interest in my life has been zero.

Thank you for listening to my story. I?ve read some of the links at the beginning of this thread, and am just coming to realise how much my life has been shaped by them. Currently, I?m out of work and have no friends and am really looking for some support and care.

Congratulations, plucking. You've shown too much nerve to conceivably be able to lose it!

007 That is the tale of a childhood filled with trauma and neglect. Your parents and GM were a lot more than just "distant": they were actively harmful in many ways. I'm so sorry you had to live like that as a child.

I don't think you can pinpoint any one of the adults in your life as "the real problem": they were all part of the same system of dysfunction, which only worked because they each played their part in it. They are all to be held to account for how damaging your childhood was.

Well done 17-yo you for daring to kick her own father in the balls, and set a clear boundary regarding physical abuse. You can be really proud of yourself.

I'm reading with interest about your letter, plucking - that seems like such a good idea. Hope the results continue to be positive.

I'm not going to get into backstory right now (hope that's ok). I just wanted to post about what's happening right now as it's getting me down. No need to reply, I just want to be able to say it in a friendly space.

Basically, my parents have always had very high expectations and have always put me down a lot. It took me ages to realize what they were doing because they do mix it with what sounds like positive stuff. It was only when friends/boyfriends pointed out they were doing it that I got it.

Anyway, at the moment it is really getting to me. It's stuff like, recently I got a job interview I was really pleased about, and it's a long trip away. I mentioned to my dad that the interviewers hadn't realized I didn't live nearby. My mum hadn't heard that bit of the conversation so my dad decided to explain to her, in front of me, 'she's just saying that they wouldn't have offered her the interview if they'd realized how far away she is'. I didn't say that!

Or for example, I'll mention something that went really well, and they'll say 'oh, if you struggle with that you should do it this way', as if I'd just told them I needed help.

Sorry, I can't judge if I'm overreacting but it's all stuff like that - it's not very explicit but I come away feeling like I've been put down. And it's relentless. The thing is they mix it with saying stuff like 'you know you are doing really well', so I think they would think they are being supportive, but it's not. If I try to say I feel as if they're putting me down, they just calm up or act puzzled. Do you think they actually don't know they're doing it, or is it some kind of 'we have to be cruel to be kind' thing, and they think I need reminding not to be too over-confident?

Sorry, I know that is such a tiny issue, it's just I don't want to get into other stuff right now and this is making me feel really low, even though it is obviously very minor in the scheme of things.

There is no apologising on the Stately Homes thread, Sara! Your feelings are all totally valid, as is your right to post on a thread - any thread! - but specifically one designed for those working through their thoughts on their dysfunctional families.

(and I for one found that post very helpful)

Thanks.

Thanks for writing back HotDamn, I knew if I told something of my story, someone would have some insights that I could not see. It pains me that the validation I need cannot be sought from my family, and I think I have a long way to go in coming to terms with this. It has only be recently I've started to think about how dysfunctional my family really is. I will write more as I digest your post.

Hi All, I don't know where to start really or even if I fit in here, so this may seem a bit all over the place I apologise for the saga in advance but will try to condense it as best as I can. My mother emotionally and physically abused me from as far back as I can remember. My father and her had a turbulent relatioship and divorced when I was 5 yrs old. I remember their horrendous violent rows with plates being smashed against the walls. She remarried when I was 11. They used to go out clubbing at wknds then come home and turn nasty with the alcohol effects. They both now hide behind christianity and are pillars of the community but yet they point the finger at everyone who doesnt agree with their beliefs e.g. calling gay people an abomination in the sight of God, using derogatory names for them such as queers, faggots etc. Damning other faiths and condemning to hell mixed race relationships. Gossiping and rumourmongering about people in their neighbourhood and in their church. Anyway, life wasnt great growing up and I became introverted and shy. The quiet one, they called me. Afraid to open my mouth for fear of ridicule or a beating. I was terrified of her particularly when she wound up my stepfather much as the organ grinder does to the monkey. She used threats constantly saying stuff like if I got pregnant before marriage she would rip me to pieces and take my baby away and throw me out of the house. I never dated, too afraid. We moved a lot. I met a guy when I was 16. My first bf. We were together a little over a year and he was pressuring me for sex. Not before marriage I said, because I was terrified. We got engaged on my 17th b'day. I went to my mother and asked about birth control not wanting to bring disgrace on the family before the wedding. She called me a whore, a slut and a disgrace. I had done nothing but go to my mother for advice yet this is what I got? How could I ever approach her again about anything? A horrible stream of abuse was spewed at me, lasting days. My fiance decided the wedding should take place the following year rather than the three years we had planned. Big mistake. Should have got to know him better but was seeing him as my saviour. Mother took half my wages supposedly to put by for the wedding. Hard to save with so little left. She never put it towards the wedding, we found out too late and had to take a loan. She made excuses that cost of living ill afforded her to save as much as she hoped. Her and sf both worked and I paid housekeeping....the extra was supposed to be for the wedding! Costs were cut and wedding wasnt what we wanted. All her friends got invites but mine had to be limited. They chose the menu. She came home one day from work with a second hand outdated wedding dress a colleague had been selling for £20. It had a tomato soup stain right down the front of it. It was old fashioned. I said I didnt want to wear it. She flew off the handle calling me ungrateful, spiteful, a snob etc. It went downhill from there. My marriage wasnt good, unfaithful husband, drinker, debts....awful life. No support from mother. First child came along. Delighted....locked in my own little world with her life was better. Husband continued to womanise and drink. Stayed out nights, kept us short of money. Bills wracked up and debtors came calling. Then the domestic violence started. I went to mother. You made your bed, now lie in it she said. DD was only 6 wks old. No choice but to stay with husband. Horrendous marriage. Two more children, one with special needs. Was beaten for taking birth control and raped when refused advances...had no choice. Left twice and was forced back for lack of support and money. Husband was an amazing actor, Jeckyll and Hide character. Family thought lovely guy but behind closed doors an evil monster lurked. Hidings regularly but became clever and left bruises where couldnt be seen. Emotional cruelty his forte. I walked on eggshells for years. Ignored other women for as long as possible until he slept with my sister, that was too much. Stuck it out until youngest was 15 then plucked up the courage and left, quickly and quietly without a word. Two refuse bags of clothes and some pics of the kids. Nothing else to show for 20 yrs marriage. Eldest was 18 almost 19 so my chance had come. Next few years hazy. Had a breakdown. Had to learn to use computers and get a job. Was never allowed to work, go anywhere, drive, have friends. Now I could. Ex was furious I started living and set to turning family and own children against me, parents even had ex and new gf over for dinner. MIL saw through him amazingly but sadly died shortly after split. My only ally. Told mother of marital rape. Took 20 yrs and a lot of courage to admit to it. She said she doesnt believe me, she saw no bruises! Relationship very strained with parents, virtually no contact. Too toxic. DD had issues in teen years, drinking, hanging around with bad crowd etc. Much strain on already fragile marriage. Four children to three different fathers. Now DD prepares for wedding, ex's gf taking my place and I am not invited. Hearbroken. Havent the strength to keep defending myself against lies. DD told son I hate his gf of 5 yrs. Now he is estranged. Cant understand why family believe DD when they all know what she is like and capable of, she caused many rows over the years within the family circle. Even ex knows and disowned her but now all pally pally and knives in my back once again. Lost many so called friends due to divorce so today I'm the victim being treated like the criminal....no family, few friends and a life ripped apart. I just want a mum, to be a mum and to be loved. So much love to give but all in vain.

SoSad You could also try to read some other books which aren't about toxic parents, but which might help with your self-esteem. There are several books by Louise Hay and Dr Phil McGrath which I've read in the past and they helped me along the journey to becoming dependent upon myself and building my self-confidence and self-esteem. Takes ages though :)

What kind of support have you obtained since leaving, Peace?

Have you ever had counselling? If not, do ask your GP if you can be referred for individual counselling, to help you work through 40+ years of trauma. The Freedom Programme (which is free) also helps women understand and get over abusive relationships.

When reading your post I was really struck by the bit just after you left, where you say you had to learn to use computers, get a job, etc. After 20 years of total isolation in an abusive marriage, I find that really impressive. You have a lot to be proud of.

Your children witnessed and experienced abuse during their upbringing, much as you did. It is no suprise that they are now troubled, confused, and dysfunctional in their own behaviour. They are also now old enough to make their own choices, such as who to believe and who to see. All you can do is be true to yourself and confident in your own choices: if you act with dignity, state your feelings, and show them that you love them unconditionally, they may - when they are ready - be able to engage in healthy and honest exchanges with you. I can't imagine how tough it is, and wish you much continued strength to help deal with them and their hurt, and their behaviour towards you.

I'm crying reading these, so many similarities to my story. I'm trying to work up the courage to post but I'm frightened of letting it out of the box I've tried to contain my feelings in all these years.

Containing them means they will strain to pop out, Sewilma.

These feelings are so very painful, but they need to come out so they can stop hurting you inside. Think of it as lancing a boil. When you're ready.

HotDAMNlifeisgood, none really. No family support at all, mostly because they didnt want to get involved or take sides and as I said, many friends were wives or gf's of ex's work colleagues. Two really good friends, my rocks, sadly one died a few years ago and the other lives in another country. We talk on phone and in email but its not the same. Tried counselling but didnt get much resolve from it. Tried reaching out to DS and DD but they're brainwashed for want of a better word by ex. Money talks apparently. Feel very hard done by and angry but keeping quiet all these years only resulted in me not being believed when I finally plucked up the courage to tell my story. Have a sworn statment from divorce with his signature admitting my statement was true, showed to mother in the hope she would at last believe me. She dismissed it. I have to stay away from them whether I want to or not because it is doing me so much harm and making me so unhappy. I just can't win! Sewilma, I felt the same but can honestly say writing letters to those who hurt you, but not sending them, is so cathartic. Try it. I kept such letters and read over them several times before destroying them. It doesnt ease the pain as such, but in my case every time I read what they had done to me and how they made me feel it gave me renewed strength to keep contact at bay. Thank you all for your support and kind words.

We talk ... but
Tried counselling but
Tried reaching out ...but
Feel very hard done by and angry
I just can't win!

So what do you want to do? This sounds like a situation worth taking action to change.

Seems like whatever I try to do I face obstacles. I am weary and exhausted, emotionally fragile and desperately unhappy. I've made all the right noises and all the right moves to repair fraught relationships. Swallowed a lot of pride and offered olive branches where none should be offered. All in vain. What more action can I take? I have virtually no fight left.

If you've made all the right noises and all the right moves, then rejoice in that. Be proud of it. What others choose to do in reaction is down to them. You can't make anyone change: whether they do or don't is entirely down to them, not to how much effort you put in trying to make them see or do something. You can only change yourself.

If you are unhappy - which I fully understand - what can you do for yourself that might help? Relying on others to do what you would like them to do is out. What's left?

When I left my ex all I had was a few bags of clothes, pics of the kids and my integrity. Now he has everyone believing my intregrity is questionable. I want vindication, justice and the unconditional love of my family. I realise that probably isnt going to happen but that realisation is causing me such grief I can barely live with it. I write here because I cannot beging to voice how I feel without falling apart. I have exhausted all avenues, the only thing I feel is left for me to do is give them space and pray that eventually the truth will out. I am a very private person, not wanting my inner turmoil to spill into my professional life so I try to go about my days as normally as possible, inwardly dreading what to say to anyone when asked about Mothers Day, my birthday, Christmas etc.

Thank you for your supportive words. I think they are already coming out HotDAMNlifeisgoos

I'll start writing but there's so much...

Background first. I'm a twin. Mum had us when she was very young. I have a younger sister who is 6 years younger than me and a brother who is 10 years young.

There was no cuddles, tenderness or affection. We were always compared to girls from school, compared (unfavourably) to our younger sister, pitted against each other and treated as a nuisance. I remember that I got the worse of it compared to my twin though, I think because she was quite an extrovert and would stand up for herself. When I was about 7/8 my parents would wind me up so much that I would be hysterical, in tears then call me into another room. I would walk in and they would take photograph of me. They even kept the photographs and would laugh whenever they took them out to show me or other people. They never did this to any of my siblings.

When I was 7, my mum decided to perm my hair. She rubbed the solution on and I remember it burning my scalp. I cried and begged her to wash it off, only to be told "if it hurts, then it's working". She permed my hair until the age of 9 and I think it's caused some problems I still have with my hair now.

She was always telling me I was fat. I did all kinds of sports and I developed early so I had a womanly figure from quite young. I was put on a diet at 10 years old where I wasn't to eat lunch and she would make me feel bad about eating. I recently showed my DH some of the photos where I was told how fat I was and he was shocked and sickened I was told that. Thing is, looking at the photos, I was nowhere near fat and a lot of it was that I was just taller than most of the girls in my class. I've always been told I was too fat, I need to be thin to find a husband, I should be like her.

For years, starting from early teens, she would tell me and my twin that it was our fault she had to get married to my Dad, that she wanted an abortion but was made to keep us. Basically, how much we've ruined her life.

She would confide me in about problems, including sexual, in her relationships, with my Dad and various boyfriends after they divorced. She would tell me about men who came onto her who were my Dad's friends. Dad didn't know anything about this and still doesn't. She put things in my head that shouldn't have been there and made me keep secrets I shouldn't have had to keep.

I was fairly bright at school and really enjoyed it. I wanted to go to university but she made it clear I couldn't. I should just get a job and start bringing money into the house. My uncle persuaded her to let me do A-Levels but she put so much pressure on me that I didn't finish the course. She felt I was too above myself by wanting to study and that I must think I'm better than her.

My younger sister has always been the blue eyed girl and my brother can do no wrong. My sister's boyfriend assulted me when I was 21, bruises, cuts the lot. My sister and I were both still living at home and when my sister bought in into the house a few days after, I said I didn't want him in the house but in front of him, she said she wasn't going to ask him to leave because he was my sister's boyfriend.

She even engineered a situation with a boyfriend to get him on his own and tell him I was cheating on him (I wasn't and she knew it) just so she could throw herself at him. I found them in bed together. She attacked me and told me to leave the house as he wasn't going anywhere. She then contacted my best friend to say I had got the wrong end of the stick, she didn't sleep with him and could they speak to me. She told everyone I was mad and seeing things.

I've had a lot of gynae problems and a few operations so I was thrilled when I fell pregnant with DS. When I got to 14 weeks pg, she told me that she was surprised as she didn't think I would get past 13 weeks. She put so much pressure on me, made me worry all throughout my pregnacy. I got married at 5 months pg and she was pressuring me to get married near where she lives (unsurprisingly, i had moved 150 miles away by then), where my younger sis had got married and how I should it mid week so it would be cheaper, not to book the small room even though there was only to be a small wedding. I'm so angry at myself that I just wanted to please her, thinking my wedding day would be special to her I suppose. She was making all sorts of demands that I was getting really upset so my DH suggested that we just married somewhere near where we actually live and somewhere that meant something to us and if she's can't come, then so be it. It was such a relief to throw the shackles off. We ended up with the wedding we wanted and no, she didn't attend as it was "too far away, too much hassle".

Did I mentioned she is an alcoholic? Not that she'll admit it. Booze seems to enable her to re-write history and conveniently forget how horrible she is. She encourages my younger sister to cheat on her husband and to staty at hers over the weekend (with the kids) so they can drink. Unfortunately, my sister is now just like her, a "mini-mum".

The final straw came for me when she started treating my DS differently from my siblings' children. I tried to exlpain to her how I feel, how I felt about the past and how she was / is with me but all she did was bitch with my younger sister behind my back about me. I then cut off all contact with her and haven't spoke for over 2 years. I've recently moved so she knows nothing about that.

I could go on and on with examples littered throughout my life. I've had to be a bit detached writing this just to get it out as it's so emotional.

I think it all resurfaced for me when I has DS. He is the absolute centre of my world and I love him to pieces. For a long time I felt there must have been something wrong with me why she didn't love me like that but with the help of MN I've slowly realised that it isn't me, it's her. She made choices in her life but doesn't want to accept responsibility. I'm just worried that I'll end up like her, that it's somehow genetic and end up hurting my son emotionally.

I want vindication, justice and the unconditional love of my family. I realise that probably isnt going to happen

Indeed, as it is dependent on other people who have already quite conclusively demonstrated that they choose not to give you vindicaiton, justice, or unconditional love.

that realisation is causing me such grief I can barely live with it.

Yes. It's so hard. But it's learning to live with that realisation that makes it stop hurting. It's really all about acceptance - not forgiveness, or vengeance, or anything like that. Acceptance, which can only happen from within.

so I try to go about my days as normally as possible, inwardly dreading what to say to anyone when asked about Mothers Day, my birthday, Christmas etc.

Why dread it? So, you don't have a picture postcard family. What of it? "I don't get along with my mother", "My children are spending Christmas at X's". Elaborate if you feel like it. People will make up their own minds what they think. And if they are judgey about you because of it, then they've actually given you a gift by showing you who they really are.

And from the conversation we've been having here, Peace, I think it would be worth you giving counselling another chance. Counselling is a safe space where you can say everything you feel, and work out for yourself what you want to do about it. Falling apart when voicing it is par for the course - won't be anything the counsellor hasn't seen before.

Avenues are never all exhausted, btw. I for one refuse to believe that you or anyone here is doomed.

Sewilma I'm only at the paragraph where your parents would [purposefully upset you and then take pictures of it to laugh at, and I am

...

OK, got to the end now. Wow! You are one amazing lady: "For a long time I felt there must have been something wrong with me why she didn't love me like that but with the help of MN I've slowly realised that it isn't me, it's her. She made choices in her life but doesn't want to accept responsibility." Yep. Absolutely.

Do you still have any contact with her? What about your siblings - do some of them also treat you like your mother did, or pretend it never happened? Or are you able to share with them?

I'm just worried that I'll end up like her, that it's somehow genetic and end up hurting my son emotionally.

Self-awareness will be your guide: you know what your mother did and why it hurt you, and you know that you never want to be like her. You will notice if you slip into any behaviour that is neglectful or contemptuous towards your son.

And you will be able to accept responsibility and make amends if your son at any time tells you that he was hurt by something you have done. Imagine how healing it would be for you if your mother was able to do that for you! Your son will be able to rely on a mother who places his wellbeing over the protection of her own damaged ego; a mother who will listen to his feelings and own her mistakes. So whatever mistakes you do make - and all parents make mistakes - they will never be as damaging as those you experienced, since you have a completely different outlook to your mother's.

Thank you HotDAMNlifeisgood, you talk a lot of sense. If you're not a counsellor you should be - you have a gift for it! I felt such dispair today in particular because it is mother's birthday and although the need to keep such a toxic person out of my life has become necessary, I still feel terribly guilty for not sending a card or buying a present....this is the first time in my life I have done that despite our rocky relationship. I'm coping better day by day but I do have my dispair moments and the thought of growing old and not having my kids there to love and care for me is frightening. I tell myself to take one day at a time and have told them I am always always here for them but I fear the gulf will widen and never resolve. I always was a worrier! Sewilma, that must have been so hard for you to write. I too was appalled at your mother deliberately upsetting you then taking a photograph and ridiculing you, that is just so cruel! I hope, like me, you got some release and comfort from sharing your story with us. You are very brave and your son is a very lucky lad to have a mother like you. You should be very proud. xx

Thank you so much HotDAMNlifeisgood. Am sitting here crying, I feel vindicated by your words, thank you.

I broke off all contact 2 years ago when my DS was two as I couldn't bare for her to impact on his emotional wellbeing like she had mine. I like to think my son saw her true colours because he would never allow her to hold him and would run away from her or cry whenever she went near him.

I can talk to my twin about it and although she has her catalogue of nastiness curtsey of our Mum, I was definitely the focus of her vileness, and my twin left home when she was 16 so escaped a lot of it. My younger sister is just like my mum and has been moulded in her own image. They both bitch about me and my twin, would leave us out of conversations etc. Younger sister will defend Mum to the hilt and excuse her behaviour. she had a totally different experience with our Mum, had the nice clothes, given pocket money (I wasn't) and generally indulged. My brother was the only boy so could do no wrong. He has ended up with an awful attitude towards women (and the women in his life unfortunately) so I soon started to grow apart from him.

I don't speak to younger sister and brother at all now. I was accidently sent emails they were exchanging about my beautiful DS where they were implying he has SN (he hasn't but so what if he had?) and taking the piss out of his squint. I gave it to them both barrels and have never spoken to them since.

I do now speak to my Dad though after not speaking for a few years. He's at least at the grace to admit he wasn't the best Dad in the world and has apologised to me. But he doesn't want to be in the middle so stays out of conversations about me to my Mum / sister and brother and vice versa. He has been a fantastic grandad though and ensures he treats all Grandchildren equally and lets my DS (and therefore me) know he is thinking of him by sending a little something through the post for DS every so often.

I've acted decisively as soon as I felt able and don't regret cutting her out but I think it's like I'm grieving for the mum I felt I should have had.

I've got such a great relationship with my DS that I never take for granted. I don't have to shout to get him to do anything and I've never smacked him. Everyone comments on how polite, funny and kind he is and I'm always telling him I love him and giving lots of cuddles. Maybe I've learnt how to be a good mum but having the experience of such a bad one? I just do the opposite she would have done

GiveMyHeadPeace Thank you. I do feel much better talking about it and I'm glad you have been helped too - you are right HotDAMNlifeisgood definitely has a gift!

Within a few paragraphs, you have both helped me so much. To be believed and not have my experiences minimised or dismissed.

Thank you both again for your kind words, feel very humble that you have taken the time out of sharing your experiences to offer me comfort