DH's big boozy nights out becoming more regular

[Mintyleaf]

My DH works hard, is caring, great dad to our DCs etc etc etc. However he is a useless drinker, always has been. He has very little tolerance for alcohol, but it doesn't stop him from matching bigger drinkers pint for pint when he goes out with friends or work colleagues.

He comes home rolling drunk, often having been sick, and has been sick on our carpets, the sofa, the bed, etc after big nights out in the past. He isn't abusive at all, but he will argue (slurringly) that he isn't drunk etc and is generally mightily annoying.

I have put up with these nights out on the basis that he works hard etc etc but now he is going out more frequently with work contacts (his job involves socialising) and any daytime event (golf, football type thing with meal and hospitality) will always turn into a mammoth session and he won't get in til late o'clock, steaming drunk, no matter what time they started or how sedate it's meant to be.

My heart sinks when he casually mentions a forthcoming event as I know I will be looking after the kids all day and night then trying to persuade him to get into bed, quietly, he has got into bed with all clothes and shoes on, wiping his shoes on our pillows etc, just really ick stuff like that. In the past he would be so drunk he wouldn't even try to make a dash for the bathroom when he was sick, nor the bucket I put by the side of the bed. He'd insist he didn't need it then be sick next to it. At least he tries to get to the bathroom now though he is irritatingly sick in the basin not the toilet not nice to clean up.

His defence is that he works hard and is a "model" DH and dad the rest of the time so I just have to accept these (increasingly frequent) occasions.

I don't go out as often, but when I do, I come home tipsy at most. I've done the drinking til sick thing in my 20's and I enjoy drinks but when I start to feel sick I stop, whereas he will carry on til he is sick then drink some more (because his more alcohol tolerant mates are).

Is it just something I should put up with? In the past he wasn't even sorry no matter how sick he'd been, or where, or how drunk. Nowadays at least he'll say sorry the next morning but I suspect it's just something to say. I don't think he honestly means it, it just tides him over til the next time... and the next.

Just a bit fed up of it all and wanted to vent.... should it just be accepted because he's pretty good in most other ways?

Minty

No, this should not be accepted by you at all and I'd be looking to contact Al-anon now as they are helpful to family members of problem drinkers. His drinking is affecting all your lives to its overall detriment. Do you yourself think he has an alcohol problem?. BTW do his family drink heavily, sometimes this is learnt behaviour.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Does not sound like an awful lot from your point of view.

Him being "caring" and "working hard" does not make up for the fact that your H has a long standing problem with alcohol. He would find any excuse or occasion to have a drink and once there drink to excess.

I note also you have written the "great dad" comment re your DC. Women in such dysfunctional relationships often write such things when they themselves have nothing at all positive to write about their man. NO, he is not a great dad at all if he can and does treat you all with such contempt.

Both of you are teaching your children damaging lessons about relationships.

This is what you are partly teaching them. Clearing up after him as well is enabling behaviour on your part and only gives you a false sense of control. It also shows him that there are really no consequences for his actions as you're there to pick up all the pieces post his binges.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this (as you have seen)
You cannot cure this

Minty,

re this earlier comment of yours:-

"When he's sober and conscious he knows that too but he just loves his drink too much when he goes out. If I ever taped him he would just be outraged that I had dared to do it and he certainly wouldn't sit and watch it! He knows what he's like, but changing his behaviour means basically not having as many drinks and that means not having as much fun as he sees it".

He is mired in denial like many alcoholics; they do not really care about anything or anyone else. He's very selfish and likely does not think he has any problem with drink. He does not just love his drink too much, he is becoming more and more heavily involved with it. He is also likely to be badly underestimating how much he's actually put away in a sitting. Look at his friends; they are all his drinking buddies aren't they?.

You badly need to talk to someone about his drinking and Al-anon is a good place for you to start talking. Alcoholism thrives on secrecy and keeping this a secret will do you no favours at all.

What is the longest period of time he has gone without drinking any alcohol at all?.

People only change if they really realize the negative consequences of their behaviour. If you are clearing up after him then he won't remember his vomiting etc. Taking a video would be one option, or just do as little as you can e.g if he collapses in the hallway put him in the recovery position and leave him. If he vomits in your bedroom, just leave the bedroom and sleep somewhere else. He's much less likely to continue if he has to spend a day cleaning carpets or even needing to spend his hard earned cash replacing them. You carry on helping him, he'll carry on doing it, especially if he says doesn't want to change. And binge drinking will most definitely cause him physical problems, alcohol can cause cancer of the just about everything, stomach problems, all sorts :(.

Minty oh dear what a terrible situation I do feel for you. Your dh does have a drink problem. You say he knows what he is like when drunk but was shocked at the mess he caused. I bet he thinks he is just a bit of a bumbling fool. Very poor example to dc as this at this point in time is not going to change as they get older. Sadly I lost a friend who was 37 they inhaled their vomit. He needs to change but does not sound like he is going to. This is not normal behaviour. All you can do is decide whether it is something you can live with . Good luck

Thanks all.

He probably is in denial, he just sees himself as bumbling tipsy rather than totally smashed, and thinks it's amusing and just what people do (!)

What bugs me the most is that I can guarantee this will happen every time there is a night (or day) out planned. He is incapable of just going out, having a few drinks and coming home again. It's like it's the law that he gets completely trollied. Yet the rest of the time he's a normal, sober, intellligent executive type. I do think that he is predisposed to excessive consumption as it can't happen by accident this many times. It's hard to believe but he knows perfectly well in advance that he is going to just drink and drink and drink to the point of barely functioning, and what's more, he can hardly wait to get there and be first to arrive. If I was more of a drinker myself I suspect he would drink an awful lot more than he does at home.

If it was just once or twice that he'd done it that would be one thing but it's every time. Before he goes out I try to talk to him about what time he'll be home, not overdoing it etc but obviously he doesn't care about any of that.

Just don't know how to get through to him. Like I said he looks hangdog (for all of a minute) the morning after the night before, but it's long gone by the time the next night out rolls around and there he is, champing at the bit to get out there and start the party.

Fed up really.

You shouldn't have to spend the night with him. Is there any way he could stay in a hotel? I imagine he will get kicked out of it, which would back you up. Or do you have somewhere you and the DC could stay, eg your mum's? He would then have to face the fact he'd slept in vomit etc. I just couldn't stay the night with him, knowing what was going to happen.

If you allow him to just see himself as a bumbling idiot then that's what he'll do. If he wakes up, yes feeling rough but in a clean room & undressed etc then there is no evidence that he is anything more than a bumbling tipsy idiot. He certainly won't remember being pissed.

Really if you want him to change then you need to stop telling how it is and let him see - stop clearing up after him, when he has a night out arrange to stay somewhere else or at least sleep somewhere else in the house and take your DC out the next morning for the day. If these nights out are arranged in advance you shouldn't have too much trouble arranging to leave him to clear up his own mess. And don't tell him that's what you're doing, just allow him to experience how bad it gets. Even this might not be enough to make him change but he certainly isn't going to choose you over alcohol if you collude with him.

I don't think I'd let him come back to the house, actually, if he's going to wreck it. If he stayed in a B&B or hotel, he'd be faced with a huge cleaning bill if he left a disgusting mess everywhere.

Could you pack him off to a hotel with a bag of cleaning stuff? (Only half joking here.)

Does he ever just go to the pub for one or two? I ask because my dp can be like yours-without the sick thank god-but his issue is saying he'll come home at a particular time then not doing so, as he'll generally fall asleep wherever he is (we live in a village and eg he'll go to a party and fall asleep til 6am on the sofa).

He doesn't have a stop button either, BUT he will go to the pub say once a week and have one or two like a "normal" person might. I'm really interested in this lack of control/stop button thing, I think my dp has a burgeoning problem with alcohol and his tolerance is shit too. I could drink him under the table, but of course I don't because Oh Hello! we have responsibilities. Plus I can't hack the headache these days...!

Sorry for the slight hijack, am interested in people's reponses here. So far, my attempts to encourage him to stop haven't worked(I appreciate it has to be from him). Am thinking Al-Anon might be a good idea.

Minty,

Would you call your H an alcoholic?.

There's no "probably" about it unfortunately; your H is in deep denial of his drinking problem. You're all now being dragged down with him as a result with deleterious effects on your family life. Your children too given time will pick up on all this; don't think that they will not as you cannot fully protect them from the harsh realities of his alcoholism. At present he is choosing alcohol over you and his family; his primary relationship is now with alcohol.

The problem too Minty is that you're becoming his codependent in all this and that is really unhealthy. Stop clearing up after his mess; it does you no favours at all to do that and is actually enabling him to continue.

Please do consider speaking to Al-anon; as mentioned they are helpful with regards to family members of problem drinkers.

PeppermintPasty - the 3cs re alcoholism are ones you need to remember
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

Unless he himself wants to stop there is NOTHING you can do to help him (you're too close anyway to the situation to be of any real use besides which he does not want your help) except seek support for your own self. Al-anon for you would certainly be a good idea.

Thanks Attila. You always give good advice. You're right, of course. It's so bloody hard when he doesn't see it as a problem, because it "only happens now and then". For me, it's all about respect-if you say you're coming home then you come home or you phone. It's not bloody rocket science. I have no problem with him staying out if he's arranged to etc. It's when it totally mucks up plans at the weekend that it comes to a head.

Anyway, maybe I should start a new thread! Sorry for hijack again!

I thought you might find this link a useful starting point:

Information for you.

Minty, you know you keep saying he is a lovely guy and model father etc ?

I am not seeing it actually. He won't discuss things in the aftermath and gets "arsey". If you filmed him he would "refuse" to watch it. Even though there is the evidence of his stupidity, he still denies it and attempts to make you feel like the boring partypooper for spoiling his fun.

Those are not the actions of a "nice" man. Those are the actions of someone in the grip of problem drinking. It will escalate, as you say it already is. He is already putting his health and safety at risk, and turning the blame on you. What about when the kids get older and start to witness this ?

When I first lived with H, he used to do this occasionally. It got to the point where I forced him to sleep at his mother's so I didn't have to deal with him pissed and stupid. This was pre-dc though. It shouldn't be acceptable in anyone, let alone a family man. My H had some choices to make when the dc came along, and he decided behaving like this wasn't good father material and it wasn't fair on me nor on himself

Only you know whether you can tolerate this. Personally, i don't think that he otherwise a hard worker mitigates the anguish and worry he causes you, and the fact that he seemingly doesn't care about that.

I think you should have him read this so he can realize what an unappealing fool he is. Not a bumbling drunk, but a disgusting mess.

Just how does he get home? Surely not driving?

Thanks again all. Sorry for lack of posts yesterday, turned into a really busy day unexpectedly.

I did however manage to have a chat with DH. What you have all said was very useful as up til now I have said stuff but DH has always dismissed it, we have never really put the label of alcohol problem on it. So I said this and intially he poo-poohed it as usual but then he started to take it in. He was all "I don't have an alcohol problem" etc but I said that when it gets to the stage that all he has to do is say he's going out and we both know exactly how it will end up, without a doubt, then the alcohol is controlling him and not the other way round. He said "it's only now and then" until I started counting up recent examples then it was "well it's been Christmas so there's been more events" all excuses, I said there's no reason for each and every event to turn into you getting totally and utterly smashed, like a teenager.

I pointed out how vulnerable he is, that he thinks he's invincible and it's all good fun, when all he needs to do is run into a couple of idiots who punch his lights out, or worse. That that would wreck all our lives as he would never be the same person, husband, or father again if he was attacked or abused.

He tried to blame it on others saying they get the drinks in, or that so-and-so was drinking more than him (!) all irrelevant and an excuse. he said I should go out more (!) I said that was irrelevant but as it happened, if I did go out more he would only say that I can't talk, so I couldn't win either way, but that wasn't really the point either.

Anyway he definitely has taken more notice this time than any other time. I said that my not saying anything only enables him and that nobody else would tell him what an idiot he's being even thought they will definitely all be thinking it.

So thanks x

Oh dear

You had your say. Well done. I think, for now, that is as far as it will go. What has he actually said will change ? And how does he propose to cope with the fact that all these people keep "forcing" him to drink to excess ?

also, many problem drinkers try to pin the problem on other people ie. you not drinking enough

they attempt to normalise their own excesses by encouraging others to do the same

do not fall for it

That is bloody revolting. Working hard doesn't give anyone the right to behave in a contemptuous, disrespectful and disgusting manner - nor gives them carte blanche to inflict one of the nastiest jobs (cleaning up vomit) upon their partner on a regular basis. Especially because it's avoidable - and not due to illness.

I know you want to believe he's actually listened to you this time, and I hope to god that maybe something has sunk in but I tend to feel the lure of the drink and/or peer pressure is going to mean that won't be the last of it. All his responses to you read like excuses to me rather than insights. Until he actually accepts he has a drink problem AND does something about it, and in order to ensure there's no recurrence of this, I'd tell him he's NOT coming in the house. He can book a hotel, or sleep in the shed/garage (and clean up if he's sick there) or maybe one of the so-called friends whose drinking ability is seemingly something to aspire to (so and so drinking more than him FFS) could put him up and they can vomit away in unison.

You can't keep dealing with this on a practical level - it's far above and beyond the call of duty. And emotionally, the effect on your feelings for him (when you see him in that state, and when you deal with the after effects of him simply not caring enough not to get in that state in the first place) must surely be a bad one ? .... I couldn't get intimate with someone like that. What happens next is up to him ..... but until he stops drinking to excess - either through willpower or being sensible, or by seeking professional help - he stays out of the house.

Minty

Your H is mired in denial and his drinking problem is a serious one. He is also taking no responsibility for his actions but is happy to blame others. As I've also mentioned he has and is underestimating how much he is drinking. He is showing no willingness to change or seek help. You can talk to him till you're blue in the face but it will make no difference to him. You can only help your own self here and Al-anon is a good place for you to start at.

There are no guarantees here with alcoholism; he could go onto lose everything and still drink afterwards. The main thing here is what you are going to do; he is not going to change his ways for you or anyone else and may never do so either.

I don't feel qualified to comment as I've identified some similar issues with my dp, but I will say-this thing about you not going out more etc, my dp says that to me in the heat of a discussion about his occasional knobbishness. It must come from the Script of Denial. I always tell him that I go out enough thanks, and I'm a grown woman and will decide my own destiny! Berk!

Well it sounds like a very small step in the right direction in that he might start thinking of himself of having a problem but there is still a very long way to go, I don't think one chat where he makes lots of excuses is going to change anything so please don't get your hopes up.

Next time be has a night out, talk to him in advance and make a plan for yourself and DC, either staying out or sleeping in a different room. Do not under any circumstances clean up his mess, no matter how bad it is and even if DC have to witness it. Let him take responsibility for his own actions or he will never change.