I donk know what to think, its complicated

[feelinginsecure]

Dp and I have been trying for a baby, i have just had 2nd miscarriage and it is looking unlikely that i will be able to have a baby.

Dp has from a previous relationship, who are almost 5 years old. His ex had stopped him from seeing them for 4 and half years, he had been going through the courts for access for 4 and half years. His ex has stated that he was violent and abusive etc, the twins have autism and it was looking very unlikely he would get access.

Anyhow at Christmas (without telling me) he sent his ex a text, saying that he had, had enough of Courts, wasnt going to win, so would give up now, but that he would always love them and if they ever needed anything etc, etc. She texted back and said he can now see them, so they were texting and phoning back and forth for a few days before he even told me.

The arrangements are he can see them whenever he wants, but he has to go to her house and she has to be there. His ex is constantly phoning and texting him telling him all her buisness and problems.

To add to this, Dp proposed to me in October, so after my recent miscarriage i suggested that we start planning our wedding so we had something positive to focus on. He was less than keen and says he thinks we should wait.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling insecure and is dp being sensible?

I don't think any of us can know the answers from reading this thread.

I don't think feelinginsecure can know the answers either.

Of course it is possible that he is "taking her for a ride" and is going to continue to put his ex's needs and wants above feeling's. But we don't know this.

I think it is better to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment and take the pressure off a bit. I think you need to take the pressure off yourself too - there is a great temptation to think "oh he must be doing X,Y,Z" whereas in fact he may not be.

Like many men (massive generalisation there ) he may be only able to think of one thing at a time. He may simply not want to talk about the wedding because his free brain-space atm is taken up with the twins. He has only been in touch since Christmas - that is only two weeks. He doesn't want to worry about Court, or gathering evidence at the moment, because he is hoping to continue amicably.

Please just give him (and yourself) some time.

Don't back him (or yourself) into a corner, which might force one of you to do or say something rash that you might regret.

Don't rely on the responses on this thread to either reassure you that all is fine, or to make you question if he is being honest - we can't tell you that, you don't know, and it is entirely possible he doesn't really know what he is doing atm either.

You are raw after the miscarriages. Set yourself a date (a couple of months if you can bear to), and try very hard to just live in the moment until then and see how it pans out.

Can you live with never being involved with his twins OP?

Can you live with him having a relationship with the twins that you are NEVER EVER going to be a part of?

Hatty, he has been paying money into an account he opened for them after they split.

They split up because they were just not getting along. They hadnt known each other long, she got pregnant very soon after they first met. literally weeks.

He has had no contact since they split. Apparently to start with she would say he could see them, then change her mind. She met someone else very soon after they split and she then just said no contact.

I spoke to my sister-in-law at Christmas, she didnt have a very high opinion of her.

The having a new partner bit does sound plausible, as she has now said that he can have contact as she has now split with the partner recently.

He said he always deletes texts and didnt see the point of keeping them as he is not going back to court.

He is generally nice guy.

But littlemiss, he has only been seeing them for two weeks . Why are you trying to get her to believe she will NEVER EVER have a relationship with them?

Why are you so convinced he is trying to fool her? Why do any decisions have to be made NOW?

Can't really think of anything else constructive to contribute, agree with Maryzeds post with regard to making sure that you are taking care of yourself and postponing the wedding until you know where you stand.

I would advise keeping the texts though. If he doesn't think he'll go back to court now, a few months down the line when he's re-established a relationship with his boys, he may feel differently IF she does get another man change her mind about access, then any evidence will minimise dragging it out over
months years

Always be prepared IME!!

Good luck OP x

Littlemiss, i know we are speaking what if's as Maryz says he has only seen them twice. In all honesty, i would very much like to be involved, but if that was impossible for whatever reason, i could live with that if it meant that dp could continue to see them.

However i dont think i could deal with his ex having to supervise contact forever if i am entirely honest.

MaryZed

OP has already said Little, she has said he can see the twins whenever he wants to, he has to go to her house and she has to be there. He is seeing them once a week on his day off of work. If he wants to take them out, she has to go too. All of which i understand, as he hasnt seen them for 4 and half years and they have autism.

But she is saying this will always have to be the arrangement ie she will always have to be there. I am saying he needs to be straight with her and tell her that his goal is to work towards seeing them unsupervised by her (obviously he doesnt have to tell her this immediately) But he is not prepared to tell her this, just in case she stops access.

I can also understand that she doesnt want unsupervised contact for now, as they have autism and he hasnt seen them in years. But she is saying that it will always have to be like that and dp is not prepared to say anything about this. So potentially it will mean her going on days out, holidays etc, etc.

He isnt confident that she will not do a u turn, quite the opposite, which is why he is going along with whatever she wants. Which in turn makes me feel, like this not going to be a temp measure, things will continue like this.

So imo, it is the OP's OH who is sending the message to the OP that she cannot be included in his relationship with his children, not me.

I don't know if he is trying to fool her or not, but he doesn't appear to be doing much to reassure OP, deleting texts, refusing to discuss future arrangements with his X wrt including OP, chatting to his X about things unrelated to the DC, answering texts unrelated to the DC...all of which is making the OP feel insecure.

Isn't it OP who would like to know when things are going to move on? Didn't OP say something about not being able to wait around for years to have a baby with her OH?

I agree, making decisions right now isnt a good idea. I would not want to try for a baby or set a date for a wedding now anyway, as dp is obviously not happy about it. My concerns were why he has changed his mind.

As a step mother and partner of someone who has a very difficult relationship with his ex so much of what you are saying is raising massive alarm bells for me. The only thing that has pulled my dh and I through is absolute honesty with one another. We make decisions together, I see all communications and he never lies to his ex about a future that doesnt have me in it. I am concerned for you and this situation. I am also concerned about this all going on with what has happened for you recently. Whilst I get he wants to see his children and how important that is when I went through what you did I needed my partner to also be there for me. You need that too. What support are you getting in rl?

But that is his attitude at the moment, when he has seen them twice .

Because he has just met them. And they have just met him. There is little point in him saying to their mum "I want a time and date when this will change" - she would run a mile.

No-one (least of all any of us posters) know where they will all be in a year's time - Never is a long time away . Telling feeling that she will have to face the fact that she will never, ever have a relationship with them is just scaremongering.

As the parent of a child on the autistic spectrum, I could quite see myself saying "never" to something, simply because I can't imagine my son ever being able to manage it, only to change my mind some time down the track.

But if I had been backed into a corner about things when he was very little I would just have said "forget it".

feelinginsecure, stop putting pressure on yourself, or on him, to see into the future.

Go slow, do something nice for yourself. Take your time. And don't dismiss ttc either, you don't have to put your life on hold, just do everything slowly.

Pretty, the difficulties with the miscarriages is that i didnt tell anyone i was pregnent, as i was waiting until after 12 weeks. So i cannot now talk to anyone but dp about it and of course you guys.

The timing of this has been terrible, but i do feel that dp is supporting his ex, more than he is supporting me. When i want to discuss things, im being emotional, hyper sensitive etc, yet he sits and listens to unrelated kid problems for his ex.

I really must go out now. Back later. Thanks again

Little, the dp is not sending the message that he doesnt want op involved at all! He's just saying that at the moment he is more concerned about building a relationship with his children himself before he starts possibly rocking the boat by involving OP.

It is too early for him to start discussing the future with his ex, he has seen the dc twice ffs!

There is nothing wrong with him chatting to his ex about things that do not directly involve the children. Why shouldn't he have a civil relationship with her? As long as he isn't telling her things that should be kept between the OP and her DP, I really can't see what the problem is.

If they are going to start to co parent these children together, it's good that they can chat.

I realise that it is making the OP feel insecure, and that is a shame, especially with what she is going through, but she is not the priority here. A fathers relationship with his children has far more importance I'm afraid.

I also don't see the problem with the texts being deleted. I don't keep loads of old texts on my phone either, it doesn't mean I have something to hide from my husband. I think if OP has told her dp that she would like to see them because she if feeling insecure, then he should keep them and let her see. Not because she has a right to, but because it's something simple that the DP can do to help his partner feel better and there is no good reason not to. But if he does allow her to have access to his texts, then it needs to be part of an understanding that he will deal with his ex his own way and not be pressured into things by her.

Sorry, feelinginsecure, Im not meaning to talk about you as if you are not there! I think that sometimes people on this site can be too quick to jump to the conclusion that the man must be doing something wrong, especially on the relationships board.

I have never told the OP that she will have to face that she will never have a relationship with them. I asked her how would she feel if that becomes the case.

Ok, but why even ask that - I still think it isn't something she should be worrying about (or even thinking about) yet.

Give them some time. Spending one's life thinking "what if (worst case scenario) happens" can be so very draining.

You know I really wonder what the ex's story is?

There is a subtle implication that he was duped into being a father. She 'got pregnant' rather than 'he impregnated her' or 'it was a joint decision to avoid contraception and conceive a child'.

His account is that they split up 'because they weren't getting on' and yet this woman who was left caring for 6-month old twins despised him so much that she wouldn't let him see them, get a break herself and even more astonishing, wouldn't accept any child support? Unless you believe that every woman is a psycho, the only reason that most new mothers would take this drastic step would be if they were frightened for their safety or feeling extremely hurt and bitter that their partners had pissed off with another woman. Even in the latter scenario they would accept money from their children's father.

It just doesn't ring true. Neither does it ring true that a woman who has made false accusations about him and denied him a father role, would be forgiven so easily to the extent that he is taking such an interest in her welfare. She's either a psycho loon or she isn't - he can't have it both ways.

Saying he is fed-up of going to court is a cop-out. Saying that he must put the brakes on his relationship with you in case it queers the pitch is a smokescreen too.

When someone seems to have gone cool and they are deleting texts and fobbing you off with crap about being hormonal/jealous whatever, it usually points to them having a lot to hide.

I use I agree with much of what you are saying except for the parts about the children being far more important here. OP was set to be the mother of two of his babies, both of whom lost recently.

This DH has huge responsibility not only to his two living children but also to the decisions he made with the op and the consequences of them. She should be a priority - not the only priority but definitely one and he should be considerate that whilst its absolutely right that he build a relationship with his chilren, with what his partner has been through so recently that needs to be done sensitively and kindly to her as well to avoid storing up trouble for the future.

I would also find it very strange if my oh started going out and chatting to his ex with the massive strain their constant difficulties have put on this family over the last couple of years and whilst logically I would be aware its probably for the best I wouldnt feel comfortable with it at all so I can understand that.

Op the other thing you said that stands out for me is that noone knew you were pregnant. Please dont let that mean you cannot tell people - I am sure if you opened up they would be more then understanding - you really must allow people to give you some support and kindness. You cannot rely on your OH for everything and perhaps if you get some impartial support in real life you will feel far more able to cope with the complications and issues currently occuring in your relationship.

I agree with Mary and iusetoomuch. ESP the last thing iusetoomuch said , about there being a tendency here to assume the man must be doing something wrong

Sorry i had to go out yesterday.

Iuse i didnt ask to see the texts, i just asked if he had kept them due to what his ex had been saying about him in Court and in case she changed her mind, as this would prove that she wasnt in fact scared of him and was happy for him to see the kids. He had also cleared his phone log so had no record of her or him phoning her. I felt this was strange due to the circumstances.

I also agree that it is too early for him to discuss the future with his ex, this isnt what i am asking him to do, i am asking him to discuss it with me.

I also agree that he should have a civil relationship with his ex and if it is the case that they shoud be able to discuss things other than the children, then he should have no problem telling her right now is not a good time for him or me for general chit chat due to what is going on. Or should it be just a one way street?

Hatty I said earlier what the ex's story was, i read it in the Court papers, so know this much is true. They met, she quickly became pregnant by accident (i wasnt suggesting that he was duped into becoming a father, it was an accident). I was implying that they didnt know each very well, so i can see how the pressure of having two babies so quickly could affect a relationship. She had met another man, who she was pregnant by and he was acting as father to the kids and due to the autism she thought involving dp would confuse them etc. (please bear in mind, this story was from various court papers over the 4 and half years)

She would not let him see the children because she claimed she was petrified of him, he was violent, he only wanted to see the kids to get back at her etc, etc. So i am assuming the not accepting child support was to make this look true and she also had another partner who was supporting the kids, so this may have had something to do with it. Although obviously i do not know if he was violent etc, but what i do know is that the other partner has now left her, she contacts dp constantly, she is happy for him to see the children, she is happy for him to go to her house and to be alone with him. To me this doesnt sound like the actions of a woman who is petrified.

I also dont know what to think about our relationship.

OP-I had a 'difficult' relationship with my ex for 2 yrs. I wanted him to have contact but he was the type to mess around, not turn up, cancel etc

(In my mind it's the NRP equivalent of RP controlling by preventing contact - both do not put DC first and are despicable)

When the thaw started I did not involve DP at every twist and turn. I phoned exH and didn't discuss calls with DP - one phone call in particular was very emotional with ex and myself crying and expressing grief about the way things turned out. AT NO POINT during this did I intend resuming a relationship with the ex. To me it was part of a process we had to go through, to reach a point of being able to parent effectively as divorced parents.

My DP is loving and understanding - I could have talked to him but was terrified of getting advice that would have stopped this process. He had seen the abuse and damage that ex had given me in the preceding 2 yrs and I don't think would have understood.

Initially I vowed never to forgive my ex - he was v abusive and did some terrible things. Even now I feel or when I think of them. HOWEVER... he has changed. I think he's learnt from consequences and intends to do the right thing now. Not sure I forgive but I don't hold them as a barrier to going forward in a different way.

Had I pushed (or my DP pushed me to push) at that very early vulnerable stage of reconciling post divorce ... I think the truce would have snapped.

It's really early days for you. Give it time. I know you are grieving yourself and I think you need to say to your DP that you are thrilled that he is resuming contact but you're sad, vulnerable and frightened. Then let him build contact and encourage him. He will thank you for it and if your relationship is meant to be it will be stronger for your support.

I understand your fears but they cannot be answered 'today'. Give it time.

pretty I just feel like everything has changed, everything i thought i had to look forward to has gone. I know that dp has to focus on his kids and rightly so, i would be worried if he didnt, i just dont see why that has to change everything between us.

Unfortunately it sounds like his ex is always going to have a hold over him and is going to be the type that as soon as things don't go her way then she will stop access.

That's why your dp doesn't want to marry you or try for another baby, or even ask for you to come in visits because as soon as he tells her she will stop access.

It's emotional blackmail, but there is nothing that you can do. Your dp could try and stand up to her, but in reality there is a good chance he'll be back to square one.

It's a shit situation to be in, and believe me I speak from experience. You need to think long and hard about whether you want to be a part of all this, and whether you are happy to sit on the sidelines.

It sounds like now her partner has gone she is wanting someone else to play happy families with

Sit down and have a long think about thus, and how you see the future. It sounds to me like you may have had a lucky escape.

Sorry.

If I could speak to your DP I'd say to him - it's great that you are resuming contact-there is no grief like losing your children........ but your DP has just lost 2 and needs your support through this.
You must reassure her that she is still important and has a future with you.

Since I cannot say that to him OP...perhaps you should.

Toothbrush, i have told him that i am pleased, i even sat here and watched the video of him and the kids while i was still bleeding from the miscarriage, ive told him i understand that for now he has to do whatever it takes to see the kids. I have put my feelings and the miscarriage on hold, to try and not spoil his experience. I sat here in terrible pain while he was visiting the kids and didnt tell him until he got home (he visited the kids, the day the miscarriage started)

All i have asked of him is for some reassurance that this arrangement wont go on forever and that he will discuss with his ex his long terms plans eventually

I also suggested to him that we could set a date for the wedding to give me something to focus on, something happy, something positive.

I didnt think that was too much to ask.

He is the one being unreasonable then.

If you are not stopping or discouraging his access, not raising any objections to the current supervised contact and not being 'jealous' of the time he is having with his children.... then the least he could do, is remember that it is you who has stood by him in the last few years and you who has just gone through a miscarriage.