Porn. How do you honestly feel about it?

[Biggem]

I mean we all know men are going to look whether we like it or not.
But, I want (need) to know how other women feel about it, and I'm to scared to ask my friends incase I turn out to be the only one who has issues with it.

Any porn is fine, or is it when they start going on the live things (internet, not the shows in amsterdam) that it would bother you? Or aslong as ur still getting it u don't care it's only when they'd rather watch it than come and bump uglies with u!)

The appeals for more 'data' about porn are completely hollow. First because that implies that if faced with compelling data showing the number of women coerced, abused, infected and injured by porn, it might lead pro-porners to change their stance and secondly because this is an issue that relies on personal testimonies and not 'data'. There is plenty of factual evidence and academic research available about porn already, but along with other cheap and unintelligent counter-attacks, it is dismissed as 'anecdotal'.

Campaigning for better working conditions in porn doesn't address all the other objections to porn and its effects on society. That won't counter the effects that porn is having on people's sex lives, or prevent young people being exposed to the violent porn that will still exist, no matter how much 'ethical porn' is made.

Although the OP has cut and run, it's her angle that interests me. She instinctively feels uncomfortable about her partner's use of porn, but fears discussing it with her friends.

She asks: "Why do we feel like we have to be ok with it?! I wish it didnt bother me, but it does." which speaks so much of the relentless pressure women feel to be 'cool' about something that troubles them. The vicious propaganda that women who dislike porn are prudish, repressed and mundane and that men who are against it are either liars or creepy misogynists, is behind this woman's fear of owning her misgivings.

It's so powerful a message that it has silenced some women and even more men. I'd like to get to the position where women feel entitled to say they dislike porn or sex that hurts them or turns them off, without fear that they will be labelled a hysterical sex-hating prude. And for men not to feel bullied by being painted as oddballs or liars when they say they dislike porn.

This message is extremely repressive and needs to be countered at every opportunity.

Well I did just google 'Porn'. And had a look at the titles on the first couple of screens which came up. And what did I find? A mixture of themes and levels: some moderately unpleasant titles, others kind of neutral and some suggesting mutual pleasure and enjoyment. Which was about what I expected.

I'm not going to argue with the arguments over the working conditions of many of the participants. I just wanted to make the point that from my experience, porn is a healthy normal part of many men's lives. They don't get turned on by abusive and violent porn, and to insinuate they do is to foster a fear that doesn't help many.

Would it not be better to accept that many people find looking at naked bodies pleasurable and being open about it?

Could it be that one of the reasons so many people are upset when they find their partner has looked at porn is because they've been led to believe they might have a violent rapist in the house?

If you think porn is 'looking at naked bodies' you really really need to do some basic research. There are lots of links in the thread

Ok, fair point, but as SGB says, if you look on the internet, you find a mixture, from naked women to consensual sex to the more abusive stuff. To suggest that the abusive stuff is representative of what people actually consume is not fair.

brandy, agreed, and that's part of the problem. This thread is about porn, and that covers a whole gamut of different materials. The point I make and I think SGB is making that many consume porn in a healthy way, without impacting on their relationships and don't get turned on by the violent stuff that some are portraying as the mainstream

You have no idea whether the sex is 'consensual' - a lot of it isn't.

Denial, denial, denial.

Are people really suggesting that erotic sculptures are comparable to real women having physically punishing and dangerous sex?

SGB all that tells us is that you are ok with what you see. How about you write down some of the titles for us?

Here are some from the homepage of one of the top results in google.

"All star anal teen"
"Oksana loves double anal"
"Drunk girls sucking the cocks"
"Blonde slut"
"Fresh meat"
"Party whore"
"Teen blonde anal dildo fuck outside"
"Hot Italian teen is anally fucked"
"teenie hottie gets fucked hard"
"Pissing British Extreme"
"Brutal double fist fucked extreme amateur babe"
"Exploited teens"
"18 year old innocent teen blonde gets banged"
"I fucked neighbours slutty mom"
"The cock that changed her mind"
"You gotta do anal if you want to be in this business"
"Slut wife does DP"
"All in the family"
"Teacher at night"
"Young teen is horny today"

Franz I would disagree with that point, I don't think my DH is a violent rapist, and I am upset by him viewing porn - the kind of porn he was viewing was mainly girls masturbating! I don't like porn, I agree that it degrades women, especially "regular" porn. It doesn't show a loving consensual relationship, it usually shows women being submissive to men, acting out roles for their pleasure. It's rarely a bloke running a nice bath and providing a massage and seducing his partner gently! But maybe that's the difference. if porn is aimed at men, they want less of the "loving consensual" side, and more of the fantasy side - thrills without strings as it were, a nurse in rubber (wtf) or a girl ramming a dildo/fruit/insert item of choice up herself groaning at the camera.

I'd like to get to the position where women feel entitled to say they dislike porn or sex that hurts them or turns them off, without fear that they will be labelled a hysterical sex-hating prude. And for men not to feel bullied by being painted as oddballs or liars when they say they dislike porn.

In what context?
In the media in general?
Among friends of mine this would be absolutely fine; I know both men and women who dislike porn for political reasons and / or personal taste.

Just as, as I mentioned in the earlier post, I also know intelligent feminist women who identify as sexually submissive and who enjoy, with a committed and trusted partner, some of the acts and names you describe as inherently misogynistic.

I agree that there is too high a proportion of that sort of thing about in porn though, and that this preponderance could create attitudes, especially among teenagers, younger men and addicts, that all or most women like that sort of thing, when it is in reality a minority taste.

I am not in favour of trafficking or coercion and the small amount of filmed porn I watch features known named people.
Named porn stars have the freedom of choice to follow - and end - their careers.

Why so black and white? Why not better more ethical porn, rather than no porn?

What are your opinions of women like Joanna Angel or Anna Span who make porn?

Fig, I obviously don't know the state of your relationship with your DH and he should have been honest. But from what you posted, it sounded fairly mild and typical. Most porn is consumed by men, and it's designed to be a ten-twenty minute bit of fantasy for them that serves a purpose.

I take the point that there is a worrying trend in some of the imagery and language used, but I really don't think it helps that some are presenting a skewed image of what many people, porn is about

Oh completely normal porn use I agree, it was the lying that got me - he'd led me to believe he wasn't into porn. And he did it on my computer exposing it to all sorts.

My dislike of porn is separate to that incident though, I think, I've not been able to pinpoint exactly why I hate porn and why it makes me so uncomfortable before, because I've avoided thinking about it due to the pressure to be "cool" with it that's been mentioned here. This thread is great, as it's helping me see what my issue with it is. I always thought my problem was simply a body image one - and therefore "my problem" iyswim - it seems like it's a lot more than that as I really identify with some of the comments here.

Yes, Beachcomber, denial, denial, denial, as ever. Lots of very articulate people have made excellent points here and I won't repeat them, but I do have one question and one observation.

Question for those of you who defend porn: how much evidence would be enough for you to decide that your right to watch this stuff was less important than the rights of the (mainly) women who are abused, raped, degraded, beaten, coerced etc... Is there a percentage or a number: 50%? 10% 95%?

An observation: why is it that so many porn defenders dismiss work by researchers like Dines as anecdotal and flimsy, but think their own observations, based on their experiences (or the experiences of 'friends') in and around the porn industry are valid?

Jenny,

Of course there isn't a number, but why should the lack of evidence be taken as proof that is must be happening?

As for the observation - well, it's human nature. Without solid evidence, my anecdote is better than your anecdote

I have only read the first couple of pages of this thread, and cannot bear to read any more. The low opinion many of you have of men, believing they all watch porn, is just scary.

We must have reached a new level of pornification when an adult is suggesting on an MN thread that schools show pupils a video of adults having sex. Not an animation, but actual adults having sex.

People do realise that exposing people who are not adults to pornography is illegal, and would be considered sexually abusive by social services, yes? Because hopefully every sane person realises that adult sexuality has no place in the development of children's or teenagers' sexuality.

I wouldn't base academic research or a book on examples from friends and acquaintances. That's what Dines is doing - elevating the sort of commentary that belongs in an opinion column or blog / forum post to book form.

Question for those of you who defend porn: how much evidence would be enough for you to decide that your right to watch this stuff was less important than the rights of the (mainly) women who are abused, raped, degraded, beaten, coerced etc... Is there a percentage or a number: 50%? 10% 95%?&
It would mean I wouldn't watch the coerced porn.
Again, this rigid, black and white stance. Because some porn is bad, it's all bad. IRL I generally come across as a fence sitter in this debate, because - even aside from crimes like trafficking and coercion - I think there is too much of some kinds of porn and not enough of others.

But when people talk about 'ethical' porn, I wonder if they've seen the stuff that women producers are bringing out. Women are spitting on other women's genitals, and slapping them. It isn't feathers and cuddles - it's quite often violent and with the same subordination as straight porn.
That wasn't in the Anna Spans I've seen. But you seem to assume that this stuff is always inherently wrong. A minority of women enjoy it, though it's not for me. There is no reason to believe that Anna Span is using coerced performers.

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/22/porn-women
Erika Lust's porn, as mentioned in this article, is very vanilla AFAIK, though I confess I didn't sit through a whole film as I didn't find the participants that attractive.

porn exists and has existed because there have always been men who cant get a date for whatever reason and women are traditionally objectified. as a former porn user (who now has a date) i cat attest to its habbit forming properties. withdrawels are not nearly as bad as smoking, in fact, non existant. I feel a lot better about myself not having to hide my porn stash from my mom/wife/kids. now its gone, i actually feel free from the wank monkey. Those post porn wank guilty feelings are gone.... YAY!!!

the biggest problem with porn from a habit point of view, like with most habit forming behaviours, is its rammed down our throats at increasingly lowered ages. and the associated objectification of women is happening for younger and younger men, and the feelings of objectification are happenign for younger and younger girls. 20 years ago, page 3 was shocking, now its nuts in your face at child hight in tescos... (i meant the magazine nuts by the way)

I have also had partners in the sex industry and can tell you that no matter what annyone tells you, to be in that industry is damaging to the soul for the workers in it, and my heart goes out to many. the "happy" ones are parraded around like poster children of free speach, but no-one thinks of the savanna's, the stephanie swifts or the andrea spinks who have either killed themselves, disapeared, or begun to speak out against the industry that damages people but tries to hide it with gloss and cash.

Porn that is made by women for women is rare, and usually funded by men, and used by men more than it is used by women. I think ethical porn is a bit like hens teath.

the lovers guide is less education and more lame vasaline smear-lensed soft porn with porn industry standardized bodies designed to make everyone else feel inadiquate. my wife and I thought it was crap and we even watched it in 3d! monty pythons bit in the meaning of life was more educational.

but on the subject of education, do we really need a video or are we completly lacking in imagination and play? Aren't our bits to be explored by ourselves and partners? Do i really need to be educated about anal? ass to mouth? there are some things I wish i just did not know about..... Porn is a slippery slope: its just increasingly depraved stuff because all the taboos have been broken, all the holes have been filled (mulitple times). if kissing your wife can't get you excited and you need to watch someones face getting covered in semen, then i think you've got a problem.

I remember a sign outside our local police station: "Think! Are you buying someone else's misery?" It was about stolen goods but I think equally applies to pornography.