Porn. How do you honestly feel about it?

[Biggem]

I mean we all know men are going to look whether we like it or not.
But, I want (need) to know how other women feel about it, and I'm to scared to ask my friends incase I turn out to be the only one who has issues with it.

Any porn is fine, or is it when they start going on the live things (internet, not the shows in amsterdam) that it would bother you? Or aslong as ur still getting it u don't care it's only when they'd rather watch it than come and bump uglies with u!)

I used to use porn (am a woman) and had done since my early 20s when the advent of the internet meant I didn't have to go into a newsagent's to discover there were no pornographic magazines that catered to women (bar one which was quickly filled with gay chat lines/ads...also not allowed to show erect penises so everything was flaccid/barely tumescent which is not particularly appealing - must protect men's egos though hey - heaven forbid they shoudl have to be compared unfavourably!). Through the late 90s/00s I got more and more fed up of trawling through the porn sites for something remotely non-women hating to get off to.

By the time you've gone past 400 thumbnail images of some "horny fuckslut" being gangbanged/raped/bukkake/every orifice filled etc I'm afraid the urge has generally left me. And when I started looking for "ethical" women friendly porn it led me into wider research about the porn industry. The nail in the coffin for me was watching the Max Hardcore documentary and it suddenly occurring to me that I had undoubtedly masturbated to women being raped at least once if not many times. I realised how incredibly ignorant (possibly wilfully so to have been so dense as to not think about it or rather, want to think about it) and naive I had been to think otherwise. I read up on various porn stars "idyllic" careers and discovered how they had been raped/sexually abused before going into porn careers and started to think about the connection between being abused and violated as child/young adult and the psychological effects that would make someone feel that either they were being empowered (by charging people £ to abuse them) in an effort to overcome their feelings about how they had been treated in the past or that they were so worthless they felt they had no other real choices.

Obviously all that led me to making the choice never to use porn again because I can't guarantee that I am not masturbating to sexual abuse or rape so instead I have rediscovered my imagination and my fabulous back catalogue of memories of great sex I have had. If my imagination isn't up to much I will read erotic literature.

There are studies that show women are in fact much more visually stimulated than men and by a wider variety of erotic images (straight women are more likely to find gay male and gay female erotica stimulating than straight men) but all that gets drowned out by this constantly peddled myth that men somehow 'need' porn in a way women don't. Men don't need porn. Pornographers need men to buy porn to make money and they need to buy and sell women to do that. The plethora and easy accessibility of porn today also now means that porn users are becoming desensitised so that they "need" more and more extreme material (usually degrading/abusive to women) to get off to. There's plenty of interviews with pornographers talking about how they are finding it more and more difficult to make money (due to free porn availability) and the difficulty of finding more and more outlandish/abusive/sadistic scenarios to ensure men will pay for porn.

ok so there are lots of ways in which pornography can be problematic, but is this inevitable?
is it possible to have ethical porn?
is it even possible to have a rational discussion of the subject given that sex generally and porn especially is such an emotive subject?

Brilliant post TheRuderBarracuda.

Yes this 'need' is a complete myth. Porn has become normalised so that it is as much a part of a healthy sex life as masturbation and that's exactly how the porn industry wants to play it. There is no need for porn, it is not an essential part of everyday life and certainly not ALL men use it or have used it.

I find it quite demeaning to men to think that they somehow need to look at images or videos of porn every now and then to satisfy an urge. Not all men are so obsessed with sex or the objectification of women. The porn industry has created this need and done such a good job that many women now believe it. They might not like it, but they accept it because hey, porn is normal isn't it? Every man looks at porn!

Rubbish!

of course we dont need porn in the sense that we need food and water but pornography/erotica/sexually stimulating material is pretty much a part of most human cultures (?)
obviously the internet has taken things to a new level

and this:
' I read up on various porn stars "idyllic" careers and discovered how they had been raped/sexually abused before going into porn careers'
is just an anecdote, it gives no idea of the actual rate of rape or sexual abuse in the lives of sex workers compared to a representative control group.

this
'the connection between being abused and violated as child/young adult and the psychological effects that would make someone feel that either they were being empowered (by charging people £ to abuse them) in an effort to overcome their feelings about how they had been treated in the past or that they were so worthless they felt they had no other real choices.'
is just cod psychology

lovesadirtylie - what about the news report today that many students are turning to the sex industry in an effort to fund their studies. They don't want to and I suspect that many people in the industry do so as a last resort. They are too ashamed to tell their friends and family what they really do for a living.
Not to mention the dangers these students are putting themselves in by working for sex agencies or as unofficial escorts. In that link, an ex-prostitute by the name of Clare warns against working in the sex industry.

You also ignore TheRuderBarracuda's other points, picking merely on those you can dismiss as "cod psychology". Her point about rapes is interesting and unsettling.

Many children are exploited through the sex trade and have been working as sex slaves all their lives. The industry that you help to support has as many dodgy dealings as the drugs trade. Many Eastern European girls will have been taken from their homes and sold and these are just some of the videos that you can access on the internet.

Of course you don't know the background or the people concerned and I suspect that if you are watching porn, you don't want to know. But this excuse that many women enjoy doing what they do is rubbish - ethical porn doesn't even feature in the market. What is screened over the internet is far from ethical.

And again, you are missing the point that porn objectifies women. EVEN IF you can provide ethical porn, it still largely caters for the male market and therefore women are used, dominated and humiliated by men. Often you'll see one man with many women, all there to do his bidding. Is that liberation?

I suggest those who think porn is harmless read this report which is very observational, unsettling and quite an eye-opener.

I have worked in and around the porn industry for years. Some of it is good, some of it is bad, both in terms of artistic merit and the performers' working conditions. People who have strong negative feelings about porn generally have limited knowledge of it, but it is nonsense to insist that it's all about abuse because That's What Men Really Want.
But if you are opposed to porn and looking for a partner who is also opposed to it, tread carefully. Some of the most revolting, creepy, misogynistic men I have ever encountered were actively involved in anti-porn campaigning.

a news report
so what
since when did the news give a rational, objective evaluation of any topic?
of course rape is unsettling, my point that anecdote is not evidence still stands.

I'm not denying that porn can be misogynistic, but does it have to be?
Is it not possible to have porn which is not misogynistic.
Just to clarify I'll define porn as
'Printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity.'

does that have to be misogynistic?

perhaps you think that:
1-men are inherently misogynistic
(maybe they are?)
and
2-men are the main consumers of porn
(again maybe this is inevitable..I dont know)

then it follows that:
3-porn will always drift towards misogyny?

Please read the last link I gave and then tell me your thoughts.

Because what you have just assumed about the way I think of men is an accusation often thrown at those who don't like porn. So just read it.

Long passed but at BayPolars nutsack/nutshell typo.

And I don't like porn.

Link again in case anyone has missed it

sircliff
it's an interesting article..I dont know to what degree it is representative of the actual situation, it's on a news site, news tends to be biased.

I didnt assume that you had those views, I'm putting that forward as a logical argument against porn.
I presented premises one and two, if those are true then thats a good argument against porn (imo) I was asking if you agreed with premises one and two.
Personally I'm not sure

my problem is not with the issue of my partner getting aroused by images that are not of me, I don't consider it cheating, however I find porn so sad and abusive and can't help but think of the person and situations behind the images. Luckily my partner feels the same way and is disgusted by friends/colleagues who enjoy watching (particular live shows) underweight, very young, very sad looking girls.

He is of course aroused by images of other women in magazines and films etc, and that is okay with me, but he sees what I see in porn and its not pretty

lovesadirtylie I feel that sadly it is inevitable due to the entire history of civilisation where women have historically been the sex class to be sold/used for the pleasure of men. Have never heard of a harem of men but harems of women where female children and women were held captive and raped from cradle to grave were common amongst various societies where only men could inherit power/wealth/land etc. Are there societies where it is mostly male prostitutes being used by women punters?

When I have had this discussion before pro-pornists have argued that amateur porn is "ethical". And then the discussion moves onto how quite often scorned exes will post private recorded moments of sexual intimacy on the internet in revenge or without the other person's knowledge so I would never argue that "amateur" porn was ethical either. I am betting most of those pro-pornists would not be up for recorded moments of their own sexual intimacy being published on the internet without their consent.

You just can't know the origin (trafficked/history of sexual abuse) or the validity or existence of the consent of the person(s) involved, hence why to my mind the only ethical porn I can enjoy is erotic literature. At least that way I can be sure no one is being abused/raped for my pleasure.

Exhibitionists exist and enjoy being out and proud and would have sex in front of people for free. In fact they do, at swingers' clubs and the like. They don't need paying because for them they are rewarded with their own pleasure as opposed to money.

I agree with 2, that men are the main consumers of porn.
However not ALL men view porn or are into porn.

What disturbs me is the fact that porn has got much more extreme - she is right about that. More extreme, more degrading and more anti-women. As I mentioned before Newsbeat did a survey of young people which found that a large percentage had accessed online porn and it had changed the way they view women and conducted relationships.

I am bringing my children up into this world and it's frightening to think that most youngsters have accessed porn by the age of 11. The internet is a dangerous place, many parents don't police what their children are doing and many don't even know how to set parental controls. What is porn telling these kids about sex and relationships? That is what concerned Gail Dines and her responses in that news article certainly opened my eyes. You cannot say she is ignorant about porn either as she meets them and discusses these issues with them.

sircliff do you not think it possible that others have read that news report and drawn slightly different conclusions to your own? I read it and was infuenced by her describing certain sexual acts, that some women find just as pleasurable as men, as 'vile'. Just because it doesn't float yours or Ms. Dines boat doesn't make it 'vile'.

Depends how consensual it is, doesn't it? "Dines found that the most popular acts depicted in internet porn include vaginal, oral and anal penetration by three or more men at the same time; double anal; double vaginal; a female gagging from having a penis thrust into her throat; and ejaculation in a woman's face, eyes and mouth."

She is not talking about private sexual moments here, but these acts played out to be viewed for sexual satisfaction. Yes, I would find a man watching a woman gagging on a penis vile.

I would be very much behidn a campaign for more ethical porn. Because porn is a valid art form and a valid type of entertainment. People in general are as interested in sexually-orientated entertainment as they are in sport, gossip, music, horror and comedy.(IE some like somethings, some like others, etc). And it exasperates me the way porn is always treated as something alien and separate from every other kind of human interest.
As to misogyny in society, I find the general culture of cruelty and intolerance worrying but it doesn't come from porn. Look at the way the tabloids love to demonize individuals and whole groups of people. Look at the awful exploitative 'reality' shows where people who are 'unusual' or indeed mentally ill are mocked, humiliated and terrorized. Porn is a reflection of society, not the instigator of attitudes.
Oh and if you want to consider how the availability of porn affects women's status, compare a few countries with high tolerance of porn (Scandinavia, Netherlands) with those that prohibit it completely (Saudi Arabia etc).

Those of you who don't see the problem with porn - look at the slide shows on the stoppornculture.org/ website.

makelovenotporn.com/ - points out what porn does to sex lives

I like it to be honest not to keen on wired stuff but like a good orgy now and then oh not really into it funny enough we watch it now again be defo more me than him

The only issue I would have with oh watching porn if it was wired shit

SirCliff thank you for that link. This second comment sums it up for me:

"At last someone speaking out against a subject which has concerned me increasingly in recent years. I am single and far from prudish but I have been horrified by the clear change in expectations regarding woman and sex in the last decade, both as a doctor hearing my colleagues' stories of increasing numbers of young girls coming into A&E after violent anal rape at parties or other social venues (unheard of a decade ago), and also as a woman at how many (almost exclusively younger) men want you to be "a bit more porn" during sex. To any man thinking that a woman wants or enjoys having her face ejaculated onto, my advice is you try it first and we'll see how you like it. All power to Gail Dines in the meantime!"

I think porn is rape and it objectifies women to a collection of holes to be filled preferably by more than one man at a time. It's not sexy and dehumanises people.

I think porn is rape

Then i suggest you need to look up the definition of rape.

There is undeniably an underbelly of porn that is without doubt very worrying and sickening. But it's nothing new and has been around for decades.

The way some young males treat and objectify females has nothing to do with porn and everything to do with a general decline in parenting over the years. They have a lack of respect for people in full stop. And lets be honest it's not just confined to males.

Hate porn

And no all men do not look at porn, that's a pretty unpleasant way to generalise about men. And some do indeed campaign against it

And you can both like sex and hate porn