I am alternatively negligent / lazy with domestic chores and too controlling with children

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Typical domestic incident at home last night. Has happened many times before. I work full time. Two children DD 3 years DS 18 months. Put children in car at 7.30am and literally race round house getting things ready for when i get home 6.30pm - eg putting on washing machine, washing baby bottles, gettings something out of freezer for dinner etc. Husband works 45min commute so he leaves before children are up out of bed. Last night I had made an error of judgement about how full the dishwasher was before i left in the morning. Dinner crockery apparently wouldnt fit in although earlier that morning i had made a (wrong) judgement it would fit in. I take children off to bed, husband prepares to put dinner under the grill/veg in microwave, he opens dishwasher and starts shouting about it being too full - ie it was crap of me not to turn it on earlier that morning. This is an error of judgement I have made quite a lot in the past, i am now nervous about it as he gets so angry. I was reading bedtime story to children but went back into kitchen to say (as I always do) just leave it i will wash everything up after dinner. He is very angry with me. Children come into kitchen and he totally changes and becomes soft with them, does not want children to see him angry. I feel quite intimidated when he gets like that, i say come back into bedroom to children. Son will not listen to bedtime story which daughter wants and starts acting up and crying. Husband comes into bedroom and insists on taking son. I feel criticised about being crap about housework so resist husband taking son, husband accues me of being controlling and excluding him from family life. Husband takes son and tries to put him to bed. After i come out from daughters bedroom husband is standing outside sons shut bedroom door listening to him crying (i.e waiting for son to go to sleep). I know i must not interfer so i dont. The rest of the evening was total non communication.
I feel constantly accused of being either negligent and crap at domestic tasks or too controlling of the children. I have now offered husband by email that i will go away and leave the children entirely with him for weekends of his choice and even christmas if he wants as I am not controlling the children or stopping him see them. I have also said i will put the dishwasher on every single morning irrespective of how full it is (it gets quite full with childrens lunchboxes etc after work so although empty in the morning suddenly full early evening). Dont know what else to do. Husband does not communicate with me or respond to any of my suggestions. He just shouts and accuses me of being over controlling feels like i am walking on a precipice

I couldn't read this and not post.

You are walking on eggshells in your own home. This is NOT RIGHT. It is not your fault, you haven't made 'errors in judgement'. Your DH is being a controlling fuckwit. Read your post back as though someone else had written it. What would you say to them?

I cannot believe you had to resort to emailing him and offering to be out of your children's lives for periods of time. What the actual fuck? Sorry to be sweary but you sound desperate and it is making me very cross. This is no way to live.

He shouts at you about being controlling?

thanks
i just feel like i have lost all bearing as to what can be "managed" (i.e his expectations on the dishwasher etc) and what cannot
i can actually see how my knee jerk reaction to taking the children quickly off to the bedroom to get them away from his anger might be seen as "controlling" although it is not intended that way. I guess it just comes from a wish that he would be more laid back about the dishwasher. I can genuinely say that (1) our house is clean, hygenic (I would almost say very hygenic) and i keep it that way regularly and to a good standard - eg change all sheets every week, bath the children every night, put a load of laundry on every day etc (2) if he did just sit on the sofa and leave the dinner washing up for me to do at the end of the evening i would far prefer it than him going off on one. It makes me feel intimidated. i wish there was a way of solving it. he refuses to talk about it. One final genuine question. Do you think i leave myself open or that it is counter productive to email suggested "resolutions" to this type of situation (eg my email to him this morning saying he can have the children without me present and that i will put the dishwasher on every morning)
I should just shut up - right? Even if he never comes to the table to discuss anything and it never gets resolved

good grief, please stop right now and think - you are walkig on eggshells around him; he is getting angry over dishwashers?

you feel like running away because his actions have had this effect.

so you didnt put teh dishwasher on for one day?
well tough. sh&t happens.

normal reaction nwould ahve been - oh dear you msut ahve forgot to putit on - shall we run it now while we eat?

my exP got mad about stuff like this too - it isnt normal; really it isnt.

buy lundy bancroft why does he do that and read it.
go talk to your GP or someone.
call womens aid and talk to them - being intimidated by your H is not normal you know - it is a form of abuse.

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

for now say notihing, dont respond to his shouting.

read the book and get yourself informed on what is normal/not normal.

what are his positive points?
when does he treat you nicely?
what about time together away from DC?
do you work outside home as well?
how is he when left with Dc on his own?

you could ahve agreemnt that as you alst to elave in morning you are the one to put dishwasher on - but for goodness sake if one day you forget - it isnt the end of the world and he should not be berating you for it.

my exP used to go mad too eg "why did you buy the wrong colour washing up liquid? you stacked the dishwasher wrong! and many more examples.

dont respond but start keeping a journal of everything he says like this in a day/week - start to see a pattern....

Do you know what, this is absolutely awful. You have lost any perspective on what is normal behaviour, your husband is behaving in a very bad and threatening way, and you are on eggshells around him, and instead of realising that he is at fault, you think it is you. IT IS NOT.

He sounds awful, you are doing all the work, it cannot be worse being on your own.

And, do not offer to remove yourself from the house and children, that's truly terrible, you have every right to be there and to be looking after your children. Even if you were a bit controlling, which you are NOT, as you were protecting them from his nastiness.

For goodness sake, please talk to someone in RL (friend, family member) about how you feel in your own home (on eggshells, always in the wrong, intimidated) and look at some of the stuff on emotional abuse (I don't know it as well as some of the lovely ladies on here).

I would not bother emailing him at all, these are minor domestic issues that should be able to be sorted out by the odd argument and general chatting. YOu are too scared to do that and that's worrying.

There is only one controlling person in your relationship

thanks cestlavielife

what are his positive points? - he has some but we have had pretty much no time together as a couple since baby 2 was born, largely because he shows very little interest in doing this
when does he treat you nicely? - on my birthday
what about time together away from DC? - pretty much never see above
do you work outside home as well? - yes full time but 4 days per week instead of 5
how is he when left with Dc on his own? - he loves them but he holds a lot on them loving him back, partly because of a messy divorce between his own parents and his father being "excluded" (according to him) by his mother and his resulting contempt for his father (and his mother). i dont want to think about this too much but the point is i dont want to exclude him from seeing our children, to the contrary. i would like to parent "together" with him but it feels like he is always on the offensive and accusing me of taking his children away from him (and being crap around the house)

just feel tired and a bit worried for my children, not in terms of husband hurting them (not physically or in terms of neglect or abuse anyway)

Couldn't read and not respond.
So he says you are controlling and negligent with housework?
But he thnks it's OK to shout at you so much you feel intimidated? And then he let your son crying in his bedroom as a way to put him to bed which you don't agree with but you don't dare saying anything because .... he frightens you.

I think you need to reformulate what he is saying:

• 'You are controlling' is 'You don't do as you are told'
• 'You are lazzy with housework' means 'Do you mean I'll have to some some HW?!?' or 'I'll keep you under control.'

All the while you are trying to ensure there are as little 'incidents' as possible and do you best top avoid any triggers (So he is controlling you).

What can you do about it?

• Have counselling for yourself, build your self esteem.

-Then if you think there is something to save, have some couple counselling.

• I would say stop enabling his behaviour and doing all the running around, pleasing him... but I can see cestlavielife pov too.

I could have written this post.

It seems to go in cycles for us, but can spiral out of control to the situation you describe within a few bad days.

he holds a lot on them loving him back
What do you mean by that?

Traveller - he gets emotional if my 3yr daughter is not affectionate with him and implies it is my influence. it is not. i have never said anything negative about my husband to my children

"he holds a lot on them loving him back"

They're only young so they'll still be doing that - how do you think he will react when they get a bit older and in a tantrum tell him they hate him or something similar?

malinkey - i dont know
all l know is his mother left his father for another man when my husband was about 13 yrs (dont know the details) so i am hoping that notwithstanding that he feels his father was absent during his teenage years (or somehow his father let him down ???) he somehow manages to stay present for my children during their teenage years
all i know is he will never discuss it and would hate to do any kind of counselling, cannot see him ever ever doing that

I work FT, my DH works FT. The house and parenting is a partnership. Some evenings he puts ds to bed, I sort a meal, sometimes (more often) I put ds to bed and he gets the meal. That includes sorting the dishwasher out. And he puts on laundry (and even hangs it up some of the time ). I don't have to ask him to do this as a favour - it just needs doing and he accepts that he should take responsibility for it sometimes.

Your situation doesn't seem to be a partnership in anyway - he appears to be treating you as a housekeeper rather than a partner. And being a totally unreasonable employer as well.

mistlethrush
i can see how it appears that way
he does infact do a lot of stuff round the house. but as per the "competition" element of it, there is always the implied message from him of "i have to do everything and you do nothing"

I really don't get why he couldn't have flicked the dishwasher on himself. I'm guessing leaving the house in the morning is pretty hectic for you. Have you ever sat him down and told him "this relationship at this time is not working for me, we need to do something about it" . I've done it in my own relationship and have to admit I was very pushed to leave but then he stepped up and the fact that he stepped up makes me.

But why should it be a 'competition' between the two of you re things in the house? And is he REALLY pulling his own weight?

What about family days or afternoons out - do you do that?

Do you get him to take sole responsibility for the children at times so that you can get on with things that need doing? Or even just the older one whilst you keep the baby with you?

I'm really careful to make sure that it isn't only me hearing ds read - could easily happen - and other things similarly - so often things are seen as 'women's work' and the fact that you're actually working 4 days a week is completely ignored. My experience of part time working is that I wanted to cram in all the things I hadn't managed to do wtih ds the rest of the week on my 'day off' so it was almost more hectic than going to work.

Maybe his mother's father was a controlling abusive bully too.

Anyway, there isn't much of a relationship between the two of you. Have you tried talking to him about this?

I don't have much advice you have had lots here from people much more experienced than me. I will say that it sounds like you do a lot around the house, does your DH do anything?

You do a lot more than me & I am a SAHM with a DH who works long hours.

redblue,

re your comment:-
"he gets emotional if my 3yr daughter is not affectionate with him and implies it is my influence".

He certainly learnt an awful lot of damaging stuff about relationships from his parents, lessons he is now transferring to you and your children. He is also projecting all HIS controlling behaviours onto you. Its all extremely damaging to you all to be around him. He shows no real interest in you all either as a family unit.

Your children are going to easily be confused by all this behaviour from him as they get older and they won't thank you for staying with their Dad either.

This is actually no life for you or your children to live in as this is all about power and control. Controlling men are also angry men too.

Why should you have to go away at all for that matter?. Writing such an e-mail was poor judgment on your part and just gave him more ammo to use against you.

Not surprised to see that he would not consider discussing it/counselling; such men at heart think they are doing nothing wrong.

Do read the Lundy Bancroft book.

he shouldn't get so angry over a dishwasher but maybe you are reading too much in to his anger? you seem to feel constantly accused, there is an implied message in him doing housework- this is your interpretation of what he does - what does he actually say? who is setting the standards which you feel you aren't meeting?
I have been in similar situations and what one partner feels is a minor argument about something and then a normal but quiet evening the other feels was a devastating row and a cold evening. But you need to speak to him?

Oops, I meant his father.

What would happen if, when he shouts at you for dishwasher faux pas or any other reason, you were to say " Piss off, don't you dare think you've got the right to speak to me like that?' Have you tried going on the offensive, rather than the defensive. He is your husband, doesn't he know he's not supposed to bully you?