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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Has anyone used The Agreement from Patricia Evans book?

86 replies

Theagreement · 20/11/2011 22:37

... And did it work?
If the verbal abuser incites you to behave angrily, then they accuse you of being the abusive one, can The Agreement work in this situation?
I've a beautiful tiny baby and want my relationship to work but can't and never should have put up with the abuse. Can't ignore it any longer.
Name changed for this.
Thank you.

OP posts:
babyhammock · 20/11/2011 22:40

I don't know what 'the agreement' is, but I'd advise against trying to manage an abusive person x

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 05:08

Anyone? Please?

OP posts:
troisgarcons · 21/11/2011 05:18

No one knows what you are asking

What is ;The Agreement'??

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 05:49

this book has a written agreement in it that you write and present to your verbally abusive partner. It helps him realise what he has been doing.
My p thinks I need help, am crazy or depressed, have been abusing him. Or any possibility other than what I've pointed out to him, that he is verbally abusive and my upset/anger are just responses to that. He honestly cannot see that.
It may be my last hope, or id rather just walk the streets with my tiny baby tomorrow and stay somewhere awful rather than spend another day under mental torture. I'd be a much better mum.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/11/2011 07:02

No such agreement will work for such a man, he will use it against you instead. Abuse is about power and control. Never try and manage an abuser in such a manner; they also act like this because they can. Your P is also projecting onto you; yet another common tactic employed by abusive men.

Talk to Womens Aid; they could give you support too.

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 07:21

Thank you. Just trying everything to keep my family together. Can't believe it has come to this.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/11/2011 07:24

The only level of abuse acceptable within a relationship is NONE.

You cannot keep this together; its already broken by his actions towards you (and by turn his child).

You run the risk of yourself teaching your DD very damaging lessons about men if you were to stay with this man.

foolonthehill · 21/11/2011 09:04

Have you read Lundy bancrofts book "Why does he do that"? He at some point gives a prognosis and some indicators for how and whether an abusive partner might change..basically it revolves around whether the abuseive partner can gain insight and whether he already uses a level of self-control so the abuse is minimised (ie does not involve children etc). Also you need to work out whether he has an underlying personality disorder (low chance of change)

he seems to say that it is unusual but not impossible for abusers to change, it requires a high level of sustained commitment from both partners and professional help usually.

Beverly Engel says there is good reason to leave:
if your partner refuses to admit his behaviour is abusive,
refuses to get help for the abusive behaviour,
you have set out your boundaries and he shows no sign of effort to respect them
If your children are being involved in the abuse
If your hold on "reality" feels like it is slipping

Not one of us lives your life but many of us have lived with abusive partners, my own shows no indication that he can change. I have never met an abuser who has changed. Sometimes you have to use an ultimatum...move him out and ask him to complete some work to show he is willing....

Only you can do this, only you can choose. I am not familiar with the agreement but it is unlikely that one talk on one occasion will sort it forever, but it is a way of establishing your boundaries and making sure he knows...what he does with it after that.......

best wishes to you
Stay safe

gobbycow · 21/11/2011 09:24

I got a lot from the Patricia Evans books...an awful lot....but I can't see how any agreement like that can work in anything other than the most mild cases. As Attila says...the fundamental dynamic is one of CONTROL.

Talk to Respect, as well as WA. They treat these men. The level of lying and manipulation used by these very, very poorly men, is astonishing. That is their ONLY aim, to have control.

If you then want to know why they need control real Alexander Lowens book on Narcissism. (Free pages on amazon). All abusers are narcissistic to some degree or another.

I'm so sorry you are facing this...it's totally shit isn't it?.

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 11:52

Thank you all, incredibly valuable insights. It is shit. So hard to explain why it is so shit. Have appt with relate tomorrow. Have phoned wa. Left the home over the weekend, came back for dc and slowly talking.

The lundy book is also great. Will look at the lowens one. Thank you all. Good luck to all facing it.

Anyone else stayed with an abuser who changed?

OP posts:
babyhammock · 21/11/2011 13:18

Anyone else stayed with an abuser who changed?
No, but there will be plenty who stayed with one who promised he'd change.... but never did :(

Anniegetyourgun · 21/11/2011 14:12

That ^

gobbycow · 21/11/2011 14:34

There is evidence to suggest that they are actually brain damaged, similar scans to autistic brains. Changes the perspective a bit, if that's true.

foolonthehill · 21/11/2011 16:59

brain damage yes but the same or similar brain alteration is seen in the victims of abuse...so suggests it may be acquired rather than hard-wired at least in some abusers ( and of course a risk factor for becoming an abuser is being abused or witnessing abuse). the brain is much more dynamic than most of us realise

gobbycow · 21/11/2011 18:31

fool Yes that's absolutely right! I love Dr Susan Greenfield on all this stuff, the brain is indeed dynamic and constantly changing it's networking...according to her.

So there is hope, but not in the form of an agreement, I don't think. Years of therapy and a commitment to the therapeutic process...YES absolutely!

foolonthehill · 21/11/2011 19:00

yup agree totally...and most of the abusers just can't be bothered...they either are too entrenched, it's worked too well in the past so they can't see the point, or they don't have enough self knowledge to try.....

sad though, so many wasted lives...them and the abused. makes me all the more sure my DCs need something better in their lives.....

theagreement hope this is helping you. Be sure of what you want and make sure you stick to it once you have made your agreement ot delivered your ultimatum. remember you can't MAKE this work, you can only shine the light, he has to want to change and make it work too...never unilateral!

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 19:04

All of you have given such wise words, thank you so much. Aside from anything else, very interesting as well as useful. Hard being strict though when you're having moments in the relationship that aren't abusive, I find it just want to hold onto those.

fool you are right, so many wasted lives for all involved.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 21/11/2011 19:04

You would be better to remove your dc from such a toxic influence than trying against the odds to keep it together

Damaging lessons are learned from this dynamic, ones that will follow your children into the arena of their own relationships in the future

Original poster
Theagreement · 21/11/2011 19:04

Will try to stick to shining the light. Tis all I can do...

OP posts:
gobbycow · 21/11/2011 19:20

Yes but AF is right I'm am so sorry, but she is. It is not possible to shine a light when you're not sure where the next missive is coming from!

The abusers that do change (almost none) are those for whom their behaviour has caused such massive damage to their lives, that they have an actual reason to change, a real motivation, or they lose EVERYTHING!

I am quite pissed off with a therapist friend of our, who would KNOW this, and continues to work with H as though nothing has happened, to his own end gain it must be said. Which probably tells me quite a lot about him, but there it is.

For more enlightenment, look at Adam Jukes on Amazon...not too many free pages, but some for "men who batter women"...and just because he hasn't YET, does not mean that these pages are not relevant, they still are.

gobbycow · 21/11/2011 19:21

...and just saying "stop" is not enough...not in a squillion years.

AnyFucker · 21/11/2011 19:22

My mother has been "shining the light" for 40+ years now

It never worked, and her batteries ran out in the end Sad

foolonthehill · 21/11/2011 19:51

Light-shining is seldom ?never enough..real action, real ultimatums and real consequences (think toddlers!!) if there is no NEED for them to change then they won't...why would they? they are having it all their way.

The agreement ( which I have not seen) must have consequences written into it surely? Stick and carrot both need to be there. And I would always be very careful about working on this sort of abusive relationship when there is a DC(s) in the house...SAFETY First. If he really wants to change he can do it just as well outside the fmaily home, and you can always let him back in if he REALLY has made sustained, demonstrable changes.

Also do remember abuse escalates, nearly always and times of the abused person's realisation and change are big predictors of that.

Stay safe

AF Sad mum, more and more wasted, destroyed lives

AnyFucker · 21/11/2011 19:53

I know FOTH, crap innit

this is the environment I grew up in

foolonthehill · 21/11/2011 19:54

But you have changed the programming!!!! [strong girl emoticon]. hope it's the end of the line for that behaviour in your life