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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Has anyone used The Agreement from Patricia Evans book?

86 replies

Theagreement · 20/11/2011 22:37

... And did it work?
If the verbal abuser incites you to behave angrily, then they accuse you of being the abusive one, can The Agreement work in this situation?
I've a beautiful tiny baby and want my relationship to work but can't and never should have put up with the abuse. Can't ignore it any longer.
Name changed for this.
Thank you.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 23/11/2011 14:42

you ahve a "tiny baby" - you have a chance to make things good now right at the beginning, let baby grow up with happy carefree mother and some contact with dad if that is appropriate. who knows, maybe dad will be a great dad, away from you?

gettingagrip · 23/11/2011 15:07

Your baby will be fine if you can find the courage to get yourself out of this situation.

It is hard , I know, but you can do it. Use the counselling you are having to increase your self-esteem. If you are fine your baby will be fine. But keep posting, as everyone here will help you.

gobbycow · 23/11/2011 15:51

No, I still can't believe it and we are separated.

That's one of the things that makes it so tough, it is completely incomprehensible. My qualified psychotherapist friends, and one psychiatrist friend, are amazed at my "enlightenment", as I think I have read every sodding book on Amazon, and every pigging website on the net trying to get my head around it all.

And the number of people touched by this kind of behaviour, is astonishing.

You will be ok. There is a ton of us on here who have been there and done that and know how painful it is, and have many hugs waiting for you. xx

Original poster
Theagreement · 23/11/2011 16:15

THANK YOU ALL.

He thinks he has been trying, he really does think that! But I still left the house today after another incident feeling like my heart had been ripped out. After leaving him, his parents having words with him, his promises. He still seems to think I have put HIM through hell.

AWFUL AWFUL stuff. My baby is 5.5 MO, and we have had some magical times as a family, but sadly this has been the undercurrent. Now there almost 100% of the time since I started standing up for myself and really telling him what he is doing.

OP posts:
gobbycow · 23/11/2011 16:48

It is very common for it to get worse after having a baby. Have a look at the Emotional abuse thread, and the resources at the top of it, as well as the links at the top of Relationships.

I am so sorry that we are bearers of bad tidings.

gettingagrip · 23/11/2011 16:49

Please be very very careful agreement with the standing up for yourself. People like this can turn very nasty indeed if they think they are losing control of you.

Have you called WA? Have you some friends you can talk to and tell them what is happening? It may be better for you to remain as if cowed by him rather than try to stand up to him. But make plans.

gobbycow · 23/11/2011 16:50

...and they ALL think that they are the victim...that's is universal.

foolonthehill · 23/11/2011 16:50

.. ..you will be fine, eventually. let yourself grieve and feel and get as much RL support as you can.

I had 13 years of it and lots of children. I left 4 weeks ago and am going to spend the next 10 years undoing the harm and hurt that has been done to my DCs. Well done for recognising where you were. keep strong...if you want to pop over and look at the support thread ...you'll find many people who have been or are in relationships like yours and much advice 9not to mention some excellent resources at the top of the post)

Good luck and stay safe...his behaviour could get weird or scary and you might feel even more threatened and at risk even though you have gone...mine's gone completely nuts...unravelling all over the place.

Theagreement · 23/11/2011 17:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gobbycow · 23/11/2011 17:14

Yes, at one point I head butted the bathroom wall out of sheer frustration, and had a perfectly round bruise on my head for days...and I can't even remember what it was about to cause such an extreme reaction.

Awful isn't it?

gobbycow · 23/11/2011 17:15

...and when you lose it, they feel even more justified in questioning your mental health....another favourite tactic.

NettleTea · 23/11/2011 18:40

and I took a carving knife to my arm in the frustration of a completely illogical argument where he was gaslighting and telling lies and it was the only way I actually was able to feel and know anything real.
They wont change and you need to leave for your DD and your own sake.

gobbycow · 23/11/2011 18:54

H, at the beginning of our relationship, told me that his previous girlfriend had attacked him with a knife. Yes...I'm sure she did, and I for one would give her a massive hug, and say.."yup, I get it". He says it was HER HORMONES!!!!!!

RED FLAG....RUN AWAY!!!!!!! If only I had had MN then. :(

Theagreement · 23/11/2011 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Theagreement · 23/11/2011 22:02

Starting to realise that the agreement won't work :(

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 23/11/2011 22:30

Sad fro you but there is life out there and your (D)P can change with you gone if he has the metal to do it......don't stay to make things better...you can't and it sounds like you need out for your own safety and mental health. leaving does not say he can't change it just says you won't be with him unless he changes..then it's up to him.

Stay safe, be strong and keep posting if it helps.

garlicnutter · 23/11/2011 23:18

Floor-throwing and head-banging here, too. Plus screeching & wailing, actual hair-tearing, begging & pleading, and lots of very very long runs. I don't know whether I'll ever feel 'fit' to have a normal, relaxed & supportive relationship. But I do know that, if I find myself losing it like that again, it won't be because I'm 'unstable'. It'll be because I'm being abusively controlled, and I'll get the hell out of it.

Agreement, it's relatively early days. Call time before you get seriously damaged, and before your baby learns the ropes of living with an abuser. I'm very sorry you're going through this - it is incredibly confusing; the loss of self-confidence makes you doubt your own judgement; the disappointment is intense. But you are sufficiently aware of the problem to change course now. Gather all your real-life support :) Good luck!

AnyFucker · 23/11/2011 23:24

OP, it won't

it never could Sad

Original poster
Theagreement · 24/11/2011 06:10

The Evans book has a list somewhere in a chapter of what normal conversation looks like vs abusive statements. Was such a relief to see i don't have to put up with what isn't normal, that the kind of conversation id been craving is just a normal healthy element of a relationship.
garlic yes, I get all of where you are coming from.

OP posts:
Original poster
Theagreement · 12/01/2012 08:33

Hasn't been great. Couldn't get babysitter so I went to three relate counselling appts myself before Christmas. Found her quite understanding, supportive, seemed to get the issue. We went to our first together this week, Resulted in him denying everything, so the counsellor thought I am overreacting to events - I felt alone when added to him even a stranger was questioning my grasp of reality and he did nothing to support me. I was so upset but had a moment of clarity, realised that I don;t have to sit in a room full of people who think so low of me, and stood up and left. She even talked down to me about my understanding of an argument (I couldn't remember his exact wording, and he gets angry if I try to quote but get it a bit wrong) so I was vague and said it was something like him telling me to F**K off and the counsellor really shouted sternly at me saying 'come on, it is either F off or it isn't.' In an attempt to try to validate myself I pointed out that I've a PhD in Applied Linguistics (true, but not something I ever really feel the need to point out, but I'm proud of myself all the same) and am aware that words don't need to be an exact swear word but the meaning the person tries to achieve and the hurt is the same, she made me feel like I was being haughty and told me so what, a PhD means nothing.

He called me a c**t a few times (in front of our baby) but really gets angry with me when I say that still hurts - I should be over that by now, apparently.

At least I tried to save my little family and can have clarity that as long as he doesn't believe a word I am saying about why I am upset then it clearly won't change.

Am devastated.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/01/2012 08:57

Please do not attend any more joint counselling sessions with him; abusers make it all out to be about them and use this as further ammo to get back at the person he hates and detests, in this case you. Your counsellor was also manipulated by this man, your man controlled that session completely.

No decent counsellor either would suggest or even do joint counselling if there is any hint of abuse. Never forget that the only level of abuse acceptable within a relationship is NONE. No-one benefits from being in an abusive relationship. You're certainly not benefitting from it.

No "agreement" will ever work with these people; he is too inherently damaged and you cannot fix him.

Abusers can do nice/nasty very well but its a continuous cycle. Abusers as well can be very plausible to those in the outside world, they are not nasty all the time.

You can certainly help you and your child here by leaving this person asap. He will destroy you and your child if you were to remain within this and your child will not thank you for staying with such a person either.

Keep talking to Womens Aid; make plans to leave. Keep writing on here as well; you can leave. You are not powerless here, do not remain devastated.

singingprincess · 12/01/2012 09:47

Relate, in my experience, and clearly yours too, have not the first idea about the dynamics of abuse. This is a very dangerous situation. Relate could conceivably be responsible for the deaths of women, and should probably be pulled up, sharply, but by whom? I wouldn't know.

Do not go to joint counselling with an abuser. It will make it worse, it will feed in to their sense of entitlement and confirm their victim, you "insane perpetrator" role. VERY, VERY dangerous indeed.

If you can't get through to WA, try Respect....their number is at the top. They are for perpetrators, so the lines don't get very busy, but they are more than happy to talk to victims, and have an understanding that equals what you get on here. They "get it". Every tiny little incident, they can explain it in terms of the pathology of CONTROL.

Stay away from Relate, please.

amverytired · 12/01/2012 09:47

I'm so sorry you had that sort of experience with the counsellor - I think she needs to be reported as being extremely unprofessional.

singingprincess · 12/01/2012 09:48

0808 802 4040

By far THE most helpful people.

singingprincess · 12/01/2012 09:53

I have been to Relate twice in my life with two abusive husbands....they don't know what they are doing, in my experience. Clearly the OP and many others on these boards have experienced something similar.

Abuse is such a common pathology, you'd think that they would have some kind of collective knowledge, or training on the subject wouldn't you?

That is scary.