Has anyone used The Agreement from Patricia Evans book?

[Theagreement]

... And did it work?
If the verbal abuser incites you to behave angrily, then they accuse you of being the abusive one, can The Agreement work in this situation?
I've a beautiful tiny baby and want my relationship to work but can't and never should have put up with the abuse. Can't ignore it any longer.
Name changed for this.
Thank you.

It is now, FOTH and thanks for saying that

I am honest on these threads though, and have to say my childhood, teen years and early adulthood were fucked up

Not a legacy you want to pass on...

*also do remember abuse escalates, nearly always and times of the abused person's realisation and change are big predictors of that.

Stay safe*

Well said foth It was when I started putting up serious boundaries, and ramping up MY self esteem, that H became violent. And I still struggle to believe it, and then I see the permanent holes in my arm that he gouged out with his nails...all in front of our children, who are utterly traumatised.

BE CAREFUL.

It's the more subtle abuse which is affecting me most at the moment, p agrees that he has been abusive on some levels in the past but doesn't see the more subtle stuff. I'm hoping the counselling service tonight (going alone though p has said he'll attend, not possible tonight due to baby but I'd rather go alone first) will be a support to me.

Write is down, share it, make the perspective you have concrete. it's illuminating because you'll almost certainly see that it is not you and it is real. Subtle abuse is still abuse.

Subtle abuse is often worse, because that's the stuff that makes you question your own perceptions, and ultimately your own sanity. That's what blew the lid off my family....I asked for psyche help, as I believed I was starting to go mad....and I was fine, just being badly psychologically abused. So who is the mad one there? Not me. Didn't go down too well that.

It is the word CONTROL that you need to be aware of...that is what the whole thing is about. The subtle abuse is incredibly effective, until such time as you work out what's going on, then they have to raise their game. Not good, and they can't help themselves...it's a pathological need for control.

We had a visitor...not a common occurance here, and when he left, H said to me that the visitor had said that he was upset at my behaviour, and what on earth was the matter with me. H said that I had been rude and upset the visitor. I knew that I had done nothing wrong, or out of the ordinary. I rang this visitor and asked if I had upset him in some way...of course he said no I hadn't. Didn't know what I was talking about. H said that he was merely being polite...but in my tummy, I knew.

No voices had been raised..I had been gaslighted, lied to about how I came across to people. Now why would he do that? To CONTROL me, so next time someone came here I would be on eggshells wondering if my behaviour was reasonable or not. I was completely confused.

..and he reckoned I was mad! Looking back, I can see that he is a complete nutjob...a VERY sick individual indeed!

Tell us these "little" incidents....you may find that they are not as little as you may think. And you will start to see a pattern of controlling behaviours, all designed to knock you off balance.

Even TINY things, like arranging to do something and him making the decision what time it happens, even though I have the baby to sort out etc., or me saying we need to plan Christmas and him dismissing me with 'it's too early, oh yeah - let's plan months in advance...' then refusing to talk about it, or saying a book I like is 'just designed to see loads of books, it's just giving you the wrong idea'... they all seem so insignificant but in the context of everything else I feel like my heart is in a vice when they happen.

In a vice, because it is....it is controlling you! Telling you how the world is, when your perceptions are quite different, AND JUST AS VALID!!!!!

This is the point...they are not insignificant when they are part of a pattern. and it always gets worse. And it NEVER occurs to them that there is anything wrong with it, and if you complain, it's because you are mad, uptight, have no sense of humour...whatever it is.

Theagreement, thank you for sharing this.
It is reminding me that I, too, am not asking too much.

Sell not see in my above post.

I have a session with relate in a few hours.

Also, telling me how people percieved me in a certain situation/how to or not to interract with people. And telling me it has been tough putting up with me the past couple of months (since I started recognising it for what it is/standing up to it).

gobby - i had the same - "my cousin says you are cold and horrid" so and so says you are xxxx. etcet
err what?

agreement - yes it is subtle and bulds up. "have you organized something for tomorrow? no - why not bla bla..
then when iwould say "i have organized to visit xxxtomorrow" it would be "dont organizze my life for me!"
that sense you cannot win whatever you do...

dont shine the light from within - get you and out to a distance -then see if he really does change over the enxt 12 months.

read the anecdotes in lundy bancroft - i bet you recognize him in there...

Oh h has a veritable army of people who "know how I am".

They do not exist. They are mythical.

No one "knows", we were totally isolated, No one came here. I was not even allowed to accompany him to funerals, and had met none of his "friends" ('cos he ain't actually got any!) There is one fifty year old, obese, alcoholic who has never had a girlfriend for more than six weeks, who occasionaly bolsters H's delusions...for that is all that they are...but when it's ALL the time, you do begin to doubt yourself...which is what they want.

He even tried that nonsense again at the weekend...and I laughed at him, and said....

"I see your mythical people, and raise them, the police, GP, social services, women's aid, my IDVA, the school...is that enough for you?"

Tit.

gobby your "H" is an absolute arsehole

just sayin'

He's pretty fucked up, that's for sure, and is moving into his new rented place at the weekend. ommmmmm.

how naice for him

Oh yes the all seeing all knowing "friends" ...thus invoked, My friends all agree that.....,everyone I talk to agrees with me..................

aaaaRGH, but it took me ages to realise they were about as real as the little green men in my head!! (the ones I frequently hope will abduct OH and get him not just out of my life but off planet earth...we can but hope!!)_

Booking in session with relate was interesting, I've no idea if it will help at all yet. Everything people are writing on here rings true.

How does someone end up so that they control someone so much and are so deluded they don't realise they are doing it? Even when explicitly pointed out to them?

Because they are insane.

You know the Teddy bear thing....that explains the narcissism very well.

The thing is that these men, (and some women, my mother is one of them) are SO cut off from their emotions, that they live their lives as a constructed image...their narcissistic reflection. If they are not real, because they are so disconnected, nobody else can be either. If they don't feel their feelings, how can they begin to relate to other human beings, and whole, integrated, separate people? The answer of course is that they can't.

They are utterly screwed up, inside out, disconnected and damaged. It's dead sad, but the only people who can do anything about it...is them, but they don't because they don't feel anything.

So they are stuck, like Narcissus, as an image of themselves beneath the pool of water that contains their reflections...and woe betide anything or anyone who makes the water ripple....because then...they disappear. Evans called it being "beside themselves". others call it narcissistic rage, but it's not rage, it's terror.

They need to start to reconnect to their own senses, and feelings...and not a single person on the planet can do that for them.

...and you, are nothing more than part of his constructed image. You do not exist to him. You probably feel like that quite a lot and can't put your finger on quite why you feel invisible.

Children are extensions of the narc image too, especially the one picked out to be the goldenchild. Another nasty little trick, to ensure the narcissism gets passed on. :(

Another one here agrees that you are better out of it than thinking they will change.

They won't. Why would they? Changing means they have to face up to the nothingness that is inside them. They wont/can't do this.

I too had a childhood blighted by abusive controlling parents. I spent my entire childhood in fear. It meant that my adulthood became chaotic as I had no idea that control was not love. All that I had seen was abuse. Don't do that to your children.

I have been lucky in that I got out of my abusive marriage just in time to save my DC from repeating the patterns of my childhood and what they saw from their abusive father. I had no idea actually that what I was living with was a repeat of my childhood. Listen to people here that are telling you the truth. It took me until I was 50 years old to see the light.

You cannot control an abuser, and you cannot play them at their own game. They are not right in their heads, so you can never win.

And be VERY careful about counselling. Never go to joint counselling, they will just manipulate the counsellor, and you will end up feeling worse. Been there etc

The brutal truth is that no, they won't change. Sorry.

There are treatments for cluster b people. But getting them to admit they need help is the first hurdle, which is often insurmountable...because that means accepting that they are vulnerable, not in control of the image. That is too much to bear. That's why it's always someone else's fault.

Even then, it would take YEARS of high quality therapy to unravel their image, and teach them how to be real. It's too much.

My h is in therapy, but is still blaming me. So I know that nothing is changing.

And of course there are nice bits. That's how they keep you hooked in. You think that perhaps they are OK after all, you must have been mistaken. You let your guard down, and then, WHAM, they hit you with it once again.

It's exhausting living on the edge like this the whole time, because you are primed with adrenaline and fear, and this physical state is only ever meant to be for short bursts of activity, not long term living. And if you are subjecting children to this it means that their rapidly growing neurones can't grow properly. Hence many abused children end up as abusers themselves. It's how they think they are protecting themselves from their own inferior self. Or they grown up with no self esteem and thus are destined to choose their own abusive partners.

But understanding this still means that you can't change it.

There is a poster at the moment on here who will probably pop up and tell you that her abuser changed and they are all happy and hunky-dory now. The thing is that they can go away and change and then come back and prove it . With actions. And in the meantime you can live your peaceful life and allow your children's brains to grow properly.

And growing up in that atmosphere can cause real physical illness. Auto immune diseases, chronic fatigue syndrome and the like. Caused by the over adrenalised state causing long term physical damage.

Is that what you want for your children?

Thank you all who have shared something. Can't quite believe I'm in this situation, but I suppose no one does.

Will my baby be ok?