His drinking is destroying me

[NearlyMrsCustardsHardHat]

'D'P has always been a big drinker but was able to stop as and when he needed to, recently, in the past few months, he has been drinking on average 6 or 7 cans of cider a night from when he gets in from work to coming to bed at 11pm yet he is never drunk even drinking that much in such a short space of time.

Today was a different matter though as it was his day off he was due to pick the DC's up from school. He didn't show. I couldn't get hold of him and was ringing my whole drive to pick the kids up (I had to leave work to do this, it took me a hour to get back) he had passed out in the front room drunk, he had put dinner on (a roast) and very very nearly burnt the kitchen down, we were lucky I got home when I did.

He's sleeping it off now, upstairs, has been since about 5ish when I slung him up the stairs, so i've not had a chance to have it out with him but I really can't carry on like this. I'm in pieces here. I moved the kids to be with him and now I just want to walk out.

Help.

I haven't read any of that thread, but for me its mostly about the kids.

If 1 partner is an alcoholic, the other one should leave with the kids

He has to really want it for himself. It is his problem alone and you are best to take a back seat and protect yourself and your children. It is best he does this independently as if he is doing it 'for you' as it were it won't last. Ultimatums don't work for alcoholics they need to see the light themselves and re build from there.

I do follow the Braves Babes thread which has been on here for over a year. The posters all struggle with drink problems to varying degrees and provide support for each other - I just wonder how it would feel if someone said to one of them after a bad drinking episode 'I hope your husband gets out now as you are never going to change or kick the habit'.

I am always banging on about putting kids first so I understand your POV very much.

Û

I'm sure it would be heart breaking for those ladies to hear that they aren't good partners or parents. Biut IME alcoholics aren't.

If I drank like my stbxh I hope to god someone would take my kids away from me x

proud, I have seen people on Brave Babes talk quite bluntly/harshly to people about the impact of their drinking on their families. (I'm not posting there atm but used to very often, they are wonderful and it is partly thanks too them I've been sober nearly nine months).

I don't have children, but I do have a loving and worried/hurt DH. I knew exactly how selfish I was being. I honestly don't believe every alcoholic doesn't know this deep down. Alcoholism doesn't make you unable to assess what you're doing to your family. It just makes you better at rationalizing it to yourself and others (ie., being selfish).

I think the OP is doing exactly the right thing and I would urge her to leave if he carries this on. If he can't stop drinking she can't make him do it. If he can sort himself out and she then wants him back; fine.

Alcoholism is an illness. There is an element to which alcoholics don't 'choose', as no-one knows why one person can drink and stop, whereas another becomes addicted.

But that doesn't mean alcoholism isn't also a destructive and self-destructive behaviour. You push and push at the boundaries because every time someone gives you an ultimatum, you twist it into another reason to drink. Ultimately, if this guy responds like that to his wife's ultimatum, he is not ready to stop drinking and nothing she can do will stop him.

The people on the Brave Babes thread are there to help and support each other in their struggles with their drinking problems. And that's fine.

But here are people trying to help and support the OP who is in a relationship with someone with a drinking problem. If the Brave Babes wouldn't like to hear what is said in here, and in this situation, then I would respectfully suggest this is not the thread for them.

I'm sure all of us here who have been in long-term relationships with alcoholics know, to our very bones, the urge to tip-toe around the feelings of the alcoholic to avoid making them feel bad. We know the feeling that if we just supported them a bit more, if we just shouldered the burden for a while longer then maybe, just maybe, they'll see the light.

So we shut our mouths, we suppress our indignation, we clean up the messes and make the excuses. And all the while our lives are drifting by, day by day and year by year. All the time we are losing ourselves in our struggle to help and support someone else with a problem that, until that person decides that actually they do want to change, is simply not amenable to help and support. Indeed, that help and support can actively encourage them to not change as, hell, things are just peachy as they are - they get to stay pissed all the time and everyone else flutters around them and makes it all ok!

And all the time we try to ignore the thought of "why the hell am I wasting my years with someone for whom booze comes top of their list of priorities and I come a very distant second?"

The sad yet inescapable fact is that a lot of alcoholics live and die as drunks. Not that many stop for good. An awful lot try to stop but then forever more bounce between sober for weeks/months and drunk for weeks/months. To try to ignore that fact is to try to pull the wool over someone's eyes at a time when they need help to see the reality of the situation they are in. I will not be party to such deception. Being in a relationship with someone with a drink/drugs problem often involves a hell of a lot of lies. You certainly don't need any more.

Actively drinking alcoholics make shit parents and they make bloody awful partners because they are self-centred, neglectful and their primary relationship is with alcohol, not the people around them.

Would I go onto the Brave Babes thread and say that? No. That's not my place and that's not my argument to make. I don't have experience of being an alcoholic. My painfully-earned experience is in having a relationship with an alcoholic. It's two very different sides of the same coin and the help and support needed is also very different.

What Snorbs said.

I have seen one of the potential end results of alcoholism and there are several lives in bits as a result.

Thanks for all very powerful and insightful responses.

Yes two very different sides of the coin and both in their own ways deserving of and needing advice and support on here.

Snorbs, I understand and agree with all you said.

snorbs, I doubt anyone on that thread would have a problem with what's said here though. A lot of that thread is about realizing how selfish and generally horrible alcoholics can be, IME, and thinking 'do I want this'. That's the decision the OP's partner must make and she cannot make it for or with him. She can only protect herself and her children from his drinking.

I wish her strength.

Anon I meant to say well done on nine months of sobriety, that is really wonderful for you and for your dh.

The Brave Babes thread is for people who know they stuggle with alcohol and are actively doing something about it. Many have not had a drink for years, some for months, others for weeks or days. But they are facing their problems head on. Not all are alcoholics. Some are alcoholics who haven't had a drink for years. They are wonderful partners, mothers and fathers and completely supportive of each other. There is a lot of advice available on that thread if you want to have a look. It is also there for men as well as women OP so your DH could join if he wanted to.

Thanks.

I have to say though, had he felt he had to leave (which he didn't because we don't have children, and I would think it would have been very different if we had), he would have been completely right. No-one should have to put up with an alcoholic partner.

Ok im risking being bombarded with attacking posts here but here goes...

Why is everyone persuading her (OP) to get out right now?
I know you're all saying you've been there and I'm not disputing that for a single second. But to say that a negative outcome is inevitable - surely can't be 100% accurate? Surely people should fight for their loved ones until they've had enough. It sounds to me the OP has not had enough yet and still wants to do her duty as a loving partner/wife? And surely some people get out of alcoholism? That's worth fighting for is it not?

I'm not attacking, just genuinely hoping.
Yes, my husband has a problem with drink from time to time and he's trying to work through it. I do not believe he is an alcoholic but worry because it's in his family and in the 7 years we have been together he has probably really upset me through his drinking about 3 or 4 times a year. Until recently, he has completely stopped as even he is sick of the way it makes him behave when he's drunk. Long may his sobriety continue. We are so happy at the moment. He's such a good guy when sober.

I think al anon etc tell you to stop the co-dependency. Sometimes that's just not possible. In my situation, it would have meant the end for my relative. We supported her and although it it didn't help her stop, it helped her stay safe and protected. Every situation is different. I know you have to stop enabling it, but you also care for the person and don't want to see their life more ruined than it already is.

Ok I will get flamed for this, if we had left her, she wouldn't be with us and someone somewhere would have taken advantage and destroyed her. We stuck with it, always voicing our concerns and she has been sober for nearly a year after 30 yrs. She had reasons, sad reasons why she drank. Now she is happy and amazing. That wouldn't have happened without our support. It's not black and White, especially with a 'functional' drinker. Don't get me wrong I have paid a price and so has the rest of our family but now I can see it's been worth it. It's completely dependent on situation. But please contact al Anon to help you figure it out x

Thank you all.

I'm pleased to say day 1, no drink. It is just day 1 but it's a positive start. He's in bed reading a book now so i know it can be classed as a successful day as it's highly unlikely he's going to be getting up again knowing him! I hope hope hope he sticks to it and that this is the beginning of a new life.

As a previous poster stated about her DP, mine is lovely when sober, a true gent, a true caring soul and the man I love. I want that man back. I hope and pray he comes back and stays.

There speaks denial.

"He's such a good guy when sober"

Yes, but if he can't guarantee to stay sober, then he's not a good guy is he?

Look I"m not saying the OP should get out now (or that you should ttfio), but that you should be prepared to get out if there is even one relapse. I am very aware that alcoholics can recover - I know a fair few who have and AFAIK, the majority do recover to a greater or lesser extent. (I used to know a doctor at the Maudsley who quoted 1/3 remain alcoholics all their lives, 1/3 recover and never drink again and 1/3 recover so completely that they are able to drink normally at a certain stage. Whether he was making a distinction between aclohol dependent and alcohol addicted, I'm not sure and that was 20 years ago, so not sure how accurate those proportions are considered now.)

The problem is, are you prepared to spend a decade, two decades, three decades of your life and your children's formative years, waiting for that recovery to happen? I wasn't.

If it's happening, great. I really wish you well and hope your DH continues in his sobriety. If he gets drunk, then his recovery is not happening. That's the bottom line.

mango - that was a good response for me to hear. I nearly contacted Al non last time but got caught up in trying to keep it together for kids, make my work the next day, do dinner, washings etc.
I also didn't want to be dramatic as I genuinely don't think he's an alcoholic yet but has definitely shown signs that it is a problem when he has too much.
Denial! Denial! I can hear you all scream - but I honestly think he might have nipped it in the bud. I just hope that as life unfolds and things happen like our parents getting ill or job losses or whatever he doesn't resort to it and it gets to the stage where it creeps up on him again and he has it a few nights in a row. That's a nightmare for me.
Fingers crossed.

No there doesnt speak denial there speaks a woman who knows her partner.

Please contact al anon though, it would have made my life so much easier in terms of understanding how it works and not taking the guilt upon myself. You have to be strong and still put your foot down. You can never accept his unreasonble behaviour ever. It's a constant battle, but I have found it can be worth it. But don't brush it under the carpet... AA and al anon will help. If they don't or he oversteps the mark, putting you or you kids in danger then you need to leave him. You can't condone that. I know it's hard, but there is a line that cannot be crossed. Al anon will help you figure out where that is.

Custard- the point of that statement though is; it doesn't matter if he is a good guy when sober. That is not in question. It is completely irrelevant. The problem is he is an alcoholic, he isnct sober.

By saying those kind of thing (and we've all done it) shows that there is some denial, the problem is not in focus.

Good luck, I sincerely hope he is on the road to recovery. It would still be appropriate to get some support for yourself, such as al anon x

I know what you're saying Eleanor.

But, there are no guarantees in life. He cant guarantee me he wont drink again in the future but I know he loves me and the kids and for now he is sober.
He is currently in counselling and has bought and read about half a dozen self help books (he'd kill me for sharing this but that's the beauty of mumsnet anonymous!)
He too had trauma in his childhood and that is also why I am not going anywhere just now- because i know he is doing his best to fight his demons.

He is not abusive in any way when he's drunk, it's more a case of he goes into his own world, watches the tv, listens to music, sits on laptop, and I get lonely. The worst that has ever happened, and which is actually the worst for me, is that he can become a flirt and a bit inappropriate. This breaks my heart and I do know that I will only tolerate that for so long.

Actually an ultimation can work. It did with DH who has completely changed his drinking habits. He fucked up hugely and it brought things to a head. I told him if he continued then I would take dd and leave him. He knew I meant it. He went to AA, is in therapy and no longer drinks. It has not been easy, he has slipped up a couple of times but I am very proud of him.

Your DP can change, but he must accept it first, until he does that you will not be able to help him. Good luck to you all, it is possible, but please recognise if it is time for you to leave. Staying will harm everyone.

" I just hope that as life unfolds and things happen like our parents getting ill or job losses or whatever he doesn't resort to it and it gets to the stage where it creeps up on him again and he has it a few nights in a row. That's a nightmare for me.
Fingers crossed."

Yes there's a woman who knows her partner.

She hopes that her partner won't relapse. She can't relax and assume he won't and that it's his problem if he does because she'll be gone. She knows it will be a nightmare for her if he does.

She goes through life with her fingers crossed.

Sorry but is this what everyone understands by the term "healthy relationship"?

I'm sorry if what I say is upsetting anyone, but I think it's important to be very clear about what's going on in this sort of relationship. This woman is on tenterhooks that her DH will relapse. When will you start to relax ttfio? When will you take it for granted, that you will never have to tolerate a drunken episode again? How long before the eggshells you walk on, become firm ground and you're happy?

Again I repeat, it's not that I don't think alcoholics can recover or that your DH's won't recover; it's that you need to make any decisions from a position of clarity rather than denial.