I want my 14 ds to leave

[Limara]

Warning- VERY LONG

My relationship with my son is bad. To be honest, our relationship has never been good. I have never been able to meet him/click with him on any angle at all. My dh has a strained relationship with our son/his son. I use the word strained because it's a marginally better relationship because they are the same sex and they like cars.

From an early age, I suspected he had some kind of special need because I could never get any eye contact with him and could never connected with him. I remember pushing him in a swing around 18 months?, looking and smiling at him for some kind of reaction and getting noting back? Again sitting on a mat rolling a ball towards him and him totally ignoring me my facial expressions? In hindsight, he was unimpressed with most items/toys apart from Yugioh (he was obsessed). At this time, I felt I had no relationship/connection at all and I remember saying to my health visitor who was visiting me during an anti natal visit, that I didn't think I loved my son?

Infant school was difficult for him. I had his hearing tested which was fine. Finally, a year 3 teachers had a word with me. The teacher said for 6 weeks my son wouldn't sit on his spot on the carpet. SHe thought he was being naughty until she finally realised in her opinion, he didn't actually know where his spot on the carpet was! She referred me to the SENCO who assessed him to be above average in his reading and comprehension age and there was nothing they could do for him because he wasn't behind in his work!

I sent him to the speech therapist because they can assess his comprehension. Again he did well in this test. I decided to move schools because although the school was brilliant hollistically, it wasn't very disciplined and I thought my son would benefit from clear boundaries.

The move was ok in his first year there but they mixed the classes up the next year and instead of being with the kids he'd just made friends with, he had to then start all over again and this unsettled him and he was bullied. He was always in trouble from then on with missed homework and messing around in class. He left with decent stats though? We paid for Karate for him hoping to raise his self esteem and give him a goal but he gave up after a few months. He was an absolute natural at it and amazed the instructors with his speed and agility! . Again, he was unimpressed .

I knew starting Secondardy school would be difficult for him because in my eyes, he has some kind of special need although nobody has articulated/diagnosed this preferring to say he has attention problems. Special needs children have difficulty changing routine and classrooms and sure enough, he found this/finds this difficult.

My son is in Y10 now and he is constantly in lunch/after school detention, constantly late for school even though we live round the corner, has accrued nearly 12 weeks on report, doesn't wash and isn't bothered about how he looks. He forgets EVERYTHING. I am constantly picking up the pieces for him; liaising with teachers, sorting things out for him it goes on and on.

We argue about everything. I was saying to him the other day that I was going to buy him a coat HE needs and WANTS. He was arguing about this too!

There are arguments in our house all the time, it is never ending. I tell my son I love him every day not to make myself feel better but because I reflect on the arguments and the atmosphere and I cringe at the damage harsh words may have caused him. I just don't want him near me. See i've just typed this and it isn't strictly true. I do want him near me but as soon as the argument develops, I want him away from me. I've tried all the tricks; ignoring him doesn't help as he follows me. Also, I need to keep on to him with school work deadlines and these are MASSIVE conflict areas. School have told me they will expel him if it goes the way it did in Y9

I want him diagnosed as I truly believe he has special needs and I want proper help and guidance with him and a reason for all these years of nightmare and if not, well I am prepared to look at things in a different light?

Our relationship with our DD is fab.

ps. other bits and pieces:
When we are driving around our home town (quite small) in the car, he doesn't know where he is?
He sees things in a very black and white way, very fixed?

I didn't think you were a troll. Noticing the resemblance to the Kevin plot I wondered whether the whole thread was either a kind of theoretical discussion of the issues or merely an elaborate joke between you and the respondents. Sorry to learn you are having such a difficult time.

I remember after Shriver's book was first published reading an article about women who didn't have the maternal feelings they felt they ought towards their children, and how desperately guilty they felt. With one woman it was her daughter. She was grateful her husband had bonded with her because she had failed to from the very start.

But it can apply to fathers too; I remember as a (deeply shocked) child overhearing my father talking about my elder sister to my mother - and two of their friends, which seemed so disloyal to me - and saying, "She might be my own daughter but that doesn't mean I have to like her." And he didn't.

Roxy, what is the resemblance? Don't tell me anything too scary I feel sick asking but ......

Christ how heartbreaking for you and the boy. dear me.

I have no experience or knowledge or what have you, but I agree that some sort of family therapy can only help in this situation. Your heartbreak and desperation is so apparent, and can only imagine that your son feels in an equally dark place.

I feel very sorry for both of you, please seek help (even though you seem to have been banging your head against a brick wall) and even if you have to sacrfifice something else to pay for private therapy, please try to do so. You can't deal with something of this magnitude by yourself. Take care,

Can I just clarify, I said I didn't think I loved my son when I'd just given birth to my DD. At that time, I suppose It highlighted how bonded I felt with DD and was going through a difficult time coping with a baby and another child.

I meant to say it but didn't, I do love my son but I don't feel close or feel we 'get' each other/bonded.

The very fact I've been fighting for something

OP does your son think there is anything wrong with him or that he is different in some way from his mates for instance?

Does your DH think there is sonething amiss? What about the rest of the family, do they think there is something wrong?

Do you love your DS? You certainly sound like you do - and the important thing is that I bet your DS knows it.

As for saying awful things, yes you definitely shouldn't but I think we all have done. Somehow our DCs survive.

If you really want your DS to be assessed go to your GP and ask him to refer your DS to a psychiatrist. Don't be fobbed off with a CAMHS nurse and don't let the GP fob you off either. Tell GP you want an appointment within the next 6 weeks because this has gone on long enough already. IOW be as stroppy and pushy as you know how.

I agree wholeheartedly that you need to go your GP and insist he refers DS to a psychiatrist. I also think you could do with family therapy. This has been going on far too long - it's shocking how your concerns have been dismissed for a decade; no end of damage could have happened to your poor boy's psyche in that time. I'm not suggesting by any means that it's your fault btw!

From what you've been saying, DS has had trouble comprehending relationships and other relational concepts (like how places join up, for example) since he was a baby. He must have been feeling very siolated and confused all his short life, and I should think the very last thing he needs now is for you to leave him or send him to a new place :(

I know relational difficulties are an autistic symptom but, as you've worked with AS kids, you probably would have already 'diagnosed' him if that were the problem. There are other possible syndromes, although afaik they're all bundled under the autism label as they have to go somewhere

Get him seen by a real grown-up. I bet you'll all feel better - especially DS himself - if you can see an answer and a strategy ahead.

IMO it's crucial to do this soon. Adolescence is a time of great confusion, self-doubt and identity issues for the healthiest of kids. It could be the permanent undoing of him.

Get pushy! Good luck to you all :)

As the mother of a son with Aspergers, your description of your son sounds very familiar.

He's been seen by CAMHS, but unformtunately he's been seen by the wrong people at CAMHS.

Nurses cannot make dx's of Aspergers or any ASDs - only psychologists and Psychaitrists can. A paediatrician would also be liable to refer you on to one of the specialists rather than make a diagnosis themselves.

I'd go back to your GP and demad a referral to a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist who spcailises in the dx of ASDs.

I'd forget family therpay, attachment disorders etc etc and concentrate on getting him a diagnosis. If it is Aspergers it will all fall into place for you and as you learn more about that condition you'll realise that's he's not being delibrately obstructive or detached from you - it's just a sympton of the condition. Once you undertsand that you'll see him in a different light.

ASD / Aspergers is freqently 'missed' throughout school years and a dx in Year 10 is not unusual - my own DS reached Year 10 as the "naughty child" that no one understood before he was dx'd in Year 10 with Aspergers.

You'd get more help, understanding, support and advice if you asked MNHQ to move this thread to SN Children.

Bestw wishes

I don't know if my post prompted your comment about family therapy, August, but perhaps I should clarify I meant to support the family in what has evidently been a very stressful and emotionally debilitating situation for at least two of its members. I certainly wasn't suggesting the emotional stress had caused the situation, or that family therapy would 'fix' the child.

The relational incomprehension alone is enough to indicate a condition that is not purely psychological. It would easily lead to parental bonding problems, as the child was unresponsive to emotional signals from a very early age. I agree that a decent diagnosis will help the whole family.

I am so upset I haven't slept. I had to come down stairs to get away from the heat of the bed and to escape the pounding of my heart. I can't stop crying. I love my boy and he knows this. Its 3.10am and I will be getting up for work soon to do a full days work. What am I going to do now

What to do now? Make yourself a hot drink, wrap up in something warm and watch Downton Abbey :)

Can i just say that i know the op in rl and she is certainly not a troll! Those who suggested a smilarity to thE "KEVIN" book are being silly,what cos of the rolling ball thing? If we screamed troll everytime an op resembled a book then we'd say it on most threads.This has made me realise how damaging and flippant it is to call troll on a thread.

limara I will not be commenting on your situation apart from of course to tell you i am always here for you in rl and i aggree about the sn boards,they gave me great support with D's cleft palate.

Th op is a kind,insightfull and thoughtfull parent,her son is difficult for sure but i have observed her trying literally everything for years,showing a determination and energy i wouldnt have myself.

She has repeatedly asked for help but it simply isnt available i know this both as a professional and a parent.

Focussing on the occasional angry outburst is pointless.

Having raised 3 teenagers so far it does happen,and they give it back too! As long as its not constant and you admit you were angry/wrong its not going to cause lasting damage.

I dont believe my teens actually thought i was "stiff" or "didnt care about them" or that they "hated me and wished they had another Mother" anymore than they believed "they would be the death of me" or that id be chucking them out if they didnt clean their rooms.

Sometimes i think some mums live in a bubble of lovleyness,of course one shouldnt exchange harsh words with their chidren but they do it happens.

limara ring me later xx

Feel like death warmed up. Stiff neck headache starting. I am on a mish to get something sorted for me and him today. Thanks kid and will ring you later xxx

OP

I was in the same position as you 7 years ago. DD1 was 14, had been diagnosed as high-functioning Autistic, andto further complicate things,we had just moved to London.

We had a hellish 2 years of rows, attitude, violence, stealing and complete refusal to go to school. We involved CAMHS, Connexions, counselling, Family Therapy, GP but she refused to engage with anyone. I had to give up my job in order to deal with her. Fortunately school decided not to take any action over her non-attendance,and allowed her to take her GCSE's at the end of Y11 (amazingly, she managed 6 good passes, despite zero coursework and attendance).

WRT the violence, things came to a head when she pushed me over while I was pregnant. I immediately involved social services, and made it clear to her that any further violence or theft would result in a call to the police and her removal from the house. In return for her improved behaviour I agreed to stop pressuring her over school and to let her sort out attendance and work by herself. This, along with the reassurance from the school that we wouldn't be prosecuted over absences, calmed things down considerably, and the shoving and screaming rows stopped.

After school, she decided to start work, rather then continue at college. It was a steep learning curve for her; she was sacked from one job, and asked to resign from another due to timekeeping issues. We found her a work placement where she was able to study for GNVQs alongside office work and her timekeeping and organizational skills improved.

She is now 20, and has been sharing a house with 3 other people for 2 years. She can budget, keeps her room and herself clean and tidy, and is being considered for a promotion at work. She has a wide circle of friends, a long-term boyfriend and visits us regularly. Emotionally, she is a happy,well-adjusted young woman.

She's quite shocked by her past behaviour, and can't explain why she was like that. There is some regret on her part that she didn't continue with her education, esp. as BF and most of her mates are now at uni. I've had genuine, heartfelt apologies over how she was. ASD + teenage hormones makes for a hellish mix, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi Limara

Would agree with WetAugust's recent post.

You as a family and individually were let down by CAMHS; you saw the wrong person there and were fobbed off accordingly.

CAMHS certainly have their place but their expertise is not necessarily ASD as you have discovered. He really needs to see a developmental paed or pysch whose specialism is ASD. You need a diagnosis first and foremost

You will need to be persistant in order to get answers; you've been fobbed off and your son has been failed by these people with predictable result I might add (not at all surprised to see that school are threatening exclusion, this is precisely what happens when the young person's special needs are not met).

You are his best - and only - advocate here as you have discovered.

FWIW I think your son is on the ASD spectrum somewhere and he may well have AS; his early life to me is indicative of ASD.

Would also suggest you ask for this thread to be moved to SN;Children's section.

My family was destroyed by CAMHS, so I'd raise a note of caution about going to them. We're not the only ones apparently (not by a long chalk).

I'm so sorry to hear you are so distressed by the goings on on this thread OP. It would be better in SN where you will get considered responses - AIBU can be a vicious, carelss highway. You've had some great - considered, measured - responses on here but I suspect your sleeplessness etc hve been caused by the careless comments.

You clearly love your boy and have done all you can - and some - within your level of expertise. ime primary schools fight shy of getting a dx because they have to pay for it - they leave it until the child is in secondary education - by which time, a lot of damage has been done.

I sincerely hope you get effective help, and soon. I am prompted to visit the SN board as a consequence of your post because I recognise a lot of what you are saying (even down to the disinterested dad). It's so easy to blame the mother - they should put a plaque up above the CAMHS unit to this effect re Its Probably The MOther's Fault (And We'll Do Everything To Push For That). Lazy therapy imo.

OOPS - just seen that your thread is in relationships! ok, better than AIBU but you still get a lot of drive-by shootings on here.

BTW, your description of your DS was exactly how my DD was at 13, right down to the martial arts (we chose kick-boxing).

Good luck with getting a diagnosis/answer/help, and hold onto the fact that they aren't teenagers forever. The change when they finally decide not to be in thrall to their hormones and angst is amazing. It's as if someone has suddenly flipped a switch, and you suddenly have a charming, personable young adult, rather then 'Kevin the Teenager' (Harry Enfield, NOT Lionel Shriver).

Is this it?

The forum to use is actually called Special Needs: children (its located towards the bottom end of the Talk pages in its own section called Special Needs) as that part of MN receives far more daily traffic.

Agree with WetAugust and Atilla - have a look at the SN Children's board for more support.

My son was misdiagnosed with attachment problems by CAMHS and received a package of inappropriate therapy - we then got a second opinion when he was 10 and he now has a diagnosis of AS. His problems never improved with the therapy as it simply wasn't helpful for those on the spectrum, but he's now in a special school for AS where the staff understand his needs and he is getting the right help and has improved immensely. So, CAMHS can indeed get it wrong, and getting the right diagnosis was key for us and I think it will be for the OP too.

I've encountered many parents of children on the autism spectrum, who have had problems with CAMHS. Their focus is on mental health and parenting so they tend to view everything through that prism, without due consideration for developmental disorders.

Haven't read whole thread but agree totally with maryz said upthread.

I have ds and dd with aspergers. DS 15 and I recognise a lot of what you say. Def no attachment disorder. DS with autism difficult to get eye contact, didn't cry when left, didn't show much reaction/affection until 7ish when intellect took over and he "learned" how to more or less look "normal" and obvious autistic traits not apparent to anyone but myself as his mother. All this I was told is common with high functioning autism.

I think OP was observing the lack of reaction back from her son rather than having attachment disorder going on. Same with my Dad also - but I recognise he also on autism specrtum so all makes a bit more sense and with understanding and talking you can express your frustrations and say you don't like certain behaviour but it doesn't affect how you feel about the person.

Diagnosis will def help. I recognise my son a lot in what you say and he can be difficult to get along with especially at this age as they don't want to necessarily do things with parents. However going out for a late night walk (saying come and keep me company) has been a surprising way of talking without the eye contact issue that can be a problem as it's less intense than sitting talking. My son babbles away with all sorts of info I don't get at home if we're on a walk.

I think the very fact you are aware there is a problem speaks volumes that you are a caring person. Do not beat yourself up that this is your fault - you just need a bit of support to process how you feel and focus on some positives with your son. Good luck.

OP isn't here so could I speak for me her and say I'd she'd probably value that long post Maryz?