Support for those in abusive relationships - thread 6

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

Welcome!

This is the latest instalment in a series of threads for those who are in abusive relationships, those who have left abusive relationships, and those gearing to leave.

Come vent, share, give and receive support.

The first question you may be asking yourself as a new visitor to this thread is:

Am I being abused?
Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books
"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites
So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

As the name says... may I join in? I haven't read everything I'm afraid, but was pointed in this direction on another thread (have namechanged since my P monitors my posts).

I don't know if I'm just in a rather rubbish relationship, or a good one if it weren't for external stresses (poverty etc etc), but have spent most of the day crying and would really appreciate some help thinking through why.

What sparked it off was the realisation that every time P says 'are you alright', it's really just the opener for his next statement about how rubbish I am at something. I think I AM alright, or at least I would be if I hadn't started dreading that question. He says he can't talk to me about anything because I kick off at him. But his version of 'talking' is accusing me of something I haven't done, or felt, and when I deny it, losing his temper. So I get upset and then he says he can't talk to me. He's out (unusually) today, but I'm still jumpy because yesterday he came back mid-afternoon when he said he wasn't going to, and was snitty with me, and today he's already come back twice, and told me off for being on the computer. I feel jumpy and unnerved.

I know he has depression and anger issues (very broken childhood and marriage behind him), for which he has finally agreed to go to CBT for - starting in a few weeks. So why do I feel even worse? I seem to spend so much time worrying about how he will react to things I say and do, I feel paralysed. He's not violent, at least not with me; he's smashed a few things in the house. So what would you recommend? Keeping my head down makes things worse. What if I started challenging it every time? Would he gradually change his behaviour, or will we just end up in a miserable shouting competition?

I'm lost.

Telling you that you have done something that you have not is called gaslighting....and it's an evil thing to do to someone.

Everything he accuses YOU of..is him. The lot, all of it.

I have to go to school, but I, or someone will be back soon. (((hugs)) to you tired

Cheers, Gobby. I think he does it because he stresses; worries something might be true, and then frets himself into believing it probably IS true. Then it explodes out as if it WERE true.

Well, he's going to be back soon, so I'd better log off before I get told off.

Thanks again, and hopefully be back tomorrow sometime.

tired I'm a bit of a newbie but these are the things that jump out at me from your posts

'are you alright', it's really just the opener for his next statement about how rubbish I am at something. This suggests he is not allowing you to feel or be yourself

but I'm still jumpy because yesterday he came back mid-afternoon when he said he wasn't going to, you are scared of him and not free to be yourself.

He's not violent, at least not with me; he's smashed a few things in the house he either has anger management issues or is using his lashing out as intimidation (my OH does this alot)

Well, he's going to be back soon, so I'd better log off before I get told off he is controlling you!

What you choose to do about it is another question. I would suggest that you go to some of the links above especially the Women's aid one if you can. Use private browsing so he doesn't know what you have been looking at. On this thread you will find people who are still with their partner, just left or long gone, all with different issues and experiences happy to share and support as you work out what is happening and what you want to do.

Be careful and stay safe

By the way depression and anger issues (very broken childhood and marriage behind him) these may be reasons for the way he behaves but they are not excuses. many people have these issues they don't all act the same.

This is all correct what fool has said.

I was not "allowed" on MN or FB....the way he stopped me, was with sarcasm, and by suggesting that I was only worthy of fake friends. The truth was that he did not want me to be in contact with people who might just have a different perspective. If I complained, it was then, "a joke", and I had a defective sense of humour. Very manipulative and totally controlling.

H had the most horrific childhood. That is his problem to work through, I am not, and nor should you be, an emotional punchbag, for him to project it all onto. That is just plain wrong.

Telling you how you feel is also classic....they have an ingrained idea that you feel their feelings...that you are not a separate human being. They are very ill, and need specialist help...you can do nothing for him.

Sovery we have lived in poverty for most our lives (at the start we called it being students and then hippies). It is only as it continued that I realised it arose out of the fact that STBX won't work much, is happy to live off my income and off capital, mainly, and finances have been part of the abuse. This may not be relevant to you, but I thought I would mention it.

Am still stressed as stbx has not even mentioned the divorce petition, and I don't know what he plans to do about either the divorce or financial settlement. I don't even know if it actually arrived in the post. I do know he has not acknowledged it, so now papers will have to be served. Now, he knows I hate doubt and uncertainty, and I have been keeping him informed on my side. And he could tell me if he wants. So it's a choice to keep me in doubt and uncertainty that he is making.

Never mind, my recovery strategies have kicked in. Have seen a friend, listened to music, and am going to reorganise kitchen for baking.

Lurking but just wanted to say that free's non-conversation is hilarious (in the right way). Your responses were absolutely brilliant.

This is exactly how my ex used to speak to me and I've been away 2.5 years now (largely thanks to MadameOvary). Why would you want to be good enough for someone like that? He sounds like such a jerk.

When I was trying to get away I would read posts from those who had left and really, really hoped it would be me one day. And it is and it's great, you can all do it. Oh, and your social life gets great because as Hissy said earlier in the thread we're all really funny, smart, interesting people.

Turning the lights back up is a great feeling.

Hi veryvery There is a phenomenon on here known as "spaghetti head mess" which is the result of living with a mind twisting man who warps your reason and has you doubting everything.

The way to cope with it is firstly to detach yourself from the situation and pretend you are a fly on your own wall watching the H wind up the W. You start to notice the tactics, especially if you have read the links on this thread.

Secondly you trust your gut. That instinct that has you flinching when you hear his key in the door. The dread when you turn into your own drive and see his car is there. That is not a sign of a good relationship and your body is telling you what your mind doesn't want to hear yet. But be patient and wait and learn as much as you can and it will all start to be clearer. Then you can begin to form a plan for what you want to do about it. Be kind to yourself and down blame yourself too much. No-one chooses to get into the situation you are in. None of us did, and as Hissy said we are all fabulous feisty ladies!

Hope your weekend is ok, and you get some time to be yourself.

FOTH - thank you. Working out what is happening is exactly my problem. He is stressed, insecure, angry, and I can see he is flailing badly. I am much more laid back and I think that exasperates him even more. I don't think he is intentionally trying to be unpleasant as a way of life, just that he doesn't have any other behavioural options, IYSWIM - which is where I'm really hoping this CBT will make a difference.

Gobby - that's exactly it! He hasn't said don't do it (actually, he has said that about MN), he just gets really offensive if he sees me looking at any online social site - sarcastic, as you say, and then bad-tempered for hours afterwards unless I make a real effort to cheer him up. Films too - we usually agree on what we want to watch, but if I put something on that isn't up his street (rarely! - Poirot, or a Disney film for example), even if he's on the computer he'll keep up this background rumble of how shit it is, and do I really want to watch it, and how crap it is, and can't I find something else. I've only insisted on watching one film through to the end - he turned off the computer, lay on the sofa, and moaned all the way through. I suggested he go and do something else, or just let me watch it quietly, but he just kept on...

Nose - yes, I've always brought in the bulk of the money (capital has long gone). He does do a lot of work, but always seems to pick things that don't actually make any money (he won't, or can't, take a salaried job for unspecified yet hinted at reasons). He endlessly stresses about how poor we are, and gets angry about it, but says I'm the one with better earning potential, so I should do more. I'm sorry it's got the the divorce stage for you, but I'm guessing you find it easier now to be without, than with, him?

LWH - ugh. He has four days of work lined up - this is the third. Again, he headed off this morning saying he might or might not be back for lunch, and he turned up again 10 minutes ago, unhappy with life and hopeless about the future. At least not angry with me this time. I just wish he would do the logic - he accepts too much work that doesn't pay enough, gets behind, gets frantic, becomes a permanent black cloud, and I can't talk to him about rationalising what he does because he just loses his temper.

He has lots of good points, but I can't talk to him about how all the constant negative emotional pressure wipes these out! I don't care that he does the housework, if he's grumpy when doing it. I don't care that he works really hard, if the result is biting my head off. I don't care how much he says he's trying/coping with, if all I get is the end of his temper. God I'm so hoping this CBT will make a difference. Teach him how to take responsibility for his choices. One tiny, petty example: he twitches and snores very badly, so I have real trouble sleeping. I can't escape to the sofa because he gets annoyed if I go. I take sleeping pills and wear ear-plugs, but still don't get much sleep. Last night I had to get up for five minutes before I throttled him - so I snuck downstairs for a ciggie. He follows in a grump because I've woken him up. I'm never grouchy with him for this, just say sorry, the snoring was a bit much. I've suggested he at least try the anti-snoring strips and other things, but he lost his temper and did the old 'Me? What about YOU? What are YOU doing to fix this situation?". Well, apart from the sleeping pills and the earplugs, I'm not sure what else I can do. He's the one snoring and twitching, but refuses to try anything to lessen it a bit. I'm so tired of fighting for a bit of reasonableness in all this, especially when he accuses me of being selfish if I say anything.

By the way - sorry for the essays - I'm not normally this longwinded, but I think it may be because I don't really know what to think, so just keep going on and on and on and on...

A thousand thanks for thinking and replying to me.

Well, mine wouldn't take a salaried job either. Now he is selling things on ebay, declared 4.5K profit last year, reinvested in stock, told me earlier this year it would take another 2 years to be profitable enough to take an income, set it up without consulting me though it appears I am supposed to support him in the meantime. Had enough of it all, he can support himself from now on - well as soon as we have divided my 'our' money. He's still here, which is stressful, spends most of his time sorting his stock and on the computer doing the business, slight improvement on previous years when he spent most of his time on the computer playing a game (not even different ones, the same one over and over).

As to the 'are you alright' convos: you could vary your response, it almost doesn't matter what you do differently, just see what difference it makes. If you usually say you are alright, try saying 'no, x is getting me down', for instance. If you are feeling strong, you could agree with him about some of your supposed short-comings and ask how he proposes to help. I know this sounds a bit mad, but at least the conversations would not go along the same track, and you can gather more info about how his head works.

hissy I am (finally) getting it now. When I first posted on here I couldn't see what he was doing to me or HOW he was doing it - I couldn't fathom why I was feeling so low. Thanks to you and others on here and reading the links, and links from them links, I am now able to pick apart his behaviour down to the last detail.

Today DS laptop was not working properly.

DS - "Dad my laptop isn't working properly"

H - "What have you done to it" (implying blame - but held my tongue)

DS - "I dont know, I left it on when I went to grandmas but when I got back it wont work properly."

H -"well you shouldn't have left it on then should you" (blame again its all your fault)

" Son it has nothing to do with leaving it on, its not your fault, lets have a look at it and see if we can google whats wrong with it"

Seems VERY minor on its own I know - but this is how he works, when you accept the little things are your fault like I used to, the little things turn into bigger things to the point where EVERYTHING is your fault - it took him 20 years to get me to beaking point - bastard.

foth those floodlights are giving me a warm healthy strength thankyou, hope the teflon overcoat has done its job so far xxx

Queen lol jerk is too nice a description for him. 2.5 years, well done you - did you have a defining final moment when you thought "right thats it" and never went back?

Take care everyone

IWBF xxxxx

Name changed and hoping no one recognises me in RL.

My husband is a wonderful, hands-on Father. He has a good job, is handsome and the life and soul of any party. For the most part we have a happy marriage and my kids have a lovely life. For the most part I think I am blessed.

He has a terrible temper that he surprises me with every 4 months or so. Usually it is sparked by something silly and usually it amounts to just shouting at me- nasty hurtful shouting. A few times over the years it has amounted to physical violence. The first time I slapped him across the face to shock him into stopping the name calling and shouting. He 'slapped' me back with the heel of his hand and I have a clicky jaw to this day. I never slapped him again.

For the most part the kids are never party to any of this. About a year ago they were there when we had a horrible shouty row about God knows what. My Son (8) was disraught and asked me to promise not to leave Daddy. I promised him that I never would. My Husband apologised to us all and explained that 'sometimes adults say horrible things that they don't mean'...

Last night the kids were getting ready to go in the bath. I asked my Son to come and get some bubble bath to take to his Dad who was running the bath. My Son was mucking around teasing his Sister with the bubble bath, spun round and bashed her into the door frame causing her to bump her temple. Cue screaming from her, I didn't mean it from him and 'I am SICK of you bullying your Sister' (he doesn't) from Husband. Son pushed into his room, door slammed.

I went in to see him (Husband comforting Daughter), he has a slap mark on his bum. I cuddle him, he says how he didn't mean it...I go and get a cold flannel to put on his bum. Put flannel on his bum, then go back to cool it down again. Husband in the meantime has gone into his room and is whispering to him about how sorry he is but that he has to stop teasing his Sister. 'Daddy was angry, I'm sorry' etc. He sees me, glares at me and snatches the flannel out of my hand 'go away, I'm sorting him out'. I say 'how dare you tell me to go away'. 'Go away and mind your own business'. I say 'My child is upset and has a hand mark on his bum, it IS my business'.

My Husband flew into a rage, grabbed me by my arms and ran with me acroos the landing and threw me on the bed. All the time shouting and hissing words that I couldn't hear. I was screaming, the kids were screaming. He slammed the door and walked out leaving me there. I could hear him putting the kids in the bath and got myself up thinking 'there is no way you are carrying on like nothing has happened' (he never apologised, sometimes says 'I was angry' at most then we go on as normal) I pushed open the bathroom door- he pushed it back at me saying 'do you mind?' looking at me like I am a piece of dirt. I ignore him and go in and join in bathing the kids, get them dried, in jammies and down to Children in Need.

My Son is shuddering in tears saying over and over again 'Mummy, just forget about it'. I say to my Husband 'I am not having my Children thinking that this is normal behaviour. You have crossed a line tonight'. He laughs and says 'you're a fruit loop' I ignore him and pour a glass of wine. He notices and says 'You're an alcoholic like your Father'. This is one of his favourite put-downs. I'm not and neither is my lovely, lovely Dad who thinks of this tosser as a Son and would be heartbroken.

I don't remember much else, snide whispers while we're trying to pretend we are watching the show. Him noticing the bruise that is developing on my arm that i am rubbing and says 'so what, you bruise easily' My Son still saying 'forget about it, leave it'. Both kids were cuddling him on his lap, he sat there wearing them like trophies while I sat on my own. I know the kids were doing this because they were scared, I don't feel like they were rejecting me.

At some point the kids went to bed, believing I hope that everything was ok, daddy apolgised to everyone for his behaviour. He came back down and noticed my arms. They are a mess. I cry myself to sleep.

I had a really restless night as I am sore all over. My back is sore but I can't lie on either side because my arms are so sore. The bruises today are horrendous. I was at work this morning and was relieved that my uniform sleeves cover tha worst ones on my upper arms. My forearm is very bruised and swollen from where he caught me on the door frame going into the room. I am a Radiographer and unfortunately it is my 'scanning arm' that is worst. Work today was agony. My colleagues all gasped when I told them that I was thrown by a neighbours horse and told me I'd had a lucky escape.

He has been very apologetic and said that he scared himself when he saw what he did. He said that he was ashamed for marking our Son and that sparked his rage at me. He has promised me that he will never lay a hand on me again.

I can't believe him, this was the worst time but not the first. I don't know why I'm telling my story here. I wont leave him. My kids Love him and I don't want to ruin their life. I wont. He is such a hands on Dad, he's as much of a Mummy to them really as I am...For the first time in my life I regret my beautiful children. if I didn't have them I would go. I wish I'd gone long ago.

Thank you if you have read this and apoplogies if I don't reply, I might not come back to the board. I don't deserve the same board space as you brave, brave Women. XXX

Bellabing, I am not a frequent poster on this thread (I lurk and read) and I'm not as eloquent as many of the people that contribute, but I will say this: you do not have to live like this. You don't have to be trapped in this situation forever. Please believe me when I say that- it might mean little from someone on the internet, but it's so true. Please stay and keep reading. When you have some spare time phone woman's aid on 08082000247- you can just have a chat with them and talk about what happened. They won't judge you or anything like that- do it in your lunch break at work or something. I don't want to say anything else in case I scare you away from reading the thread! But do stay.

Bell your husband is not a wonderful father...although he is certainly "hands on".

Stop lying sweetheart..please....tell someone at work, anywhere...the truth. You are so very, very brave for telling the truth here...so brave. Keep posting here...at the very least. You deserve the world...actually, and so do your kids.

Please come back. Please. xxx

bell, you know this isn't ok don't you? Please keep posting here. Please.
Try and read a bit if what we are talking about. There are many of us with kids who have/are in the same situation as you. Many of us who have stayed a long time with these arsewipes because we thought it was best for our children.
Keep posting, keep talking.
You are at the very beginning of realising stuff here and it's horrible, I know that, we all know that xx

bell I am sitting here shaking and crying because what you describe has happened in this house. not once but many many times. My husband could also have been called the life and soul, has a prestigious tho' not well paid job, is empathic and personable...and also an emotional, verbal and on occasion physical abuser.

I am so sorry for you and for your children and I know that you love him and that you want everything to just go away so you can be the happy "normal" family that you deserve and want to be.

Don't shut your eyes; be brave and look at what is really happening in your house and think about you and your children and what you are all experiencing and learning about relationships.

Keep posting and believe in your gut feeling and what your eyes tell you.

we'll be here

and stay safe online, private browsing, very important if you are who i think you are.

PS You deserve to be here if you want to be, none of us are that brave and we all need support and help as well....please stay alongside us

Bellabing it is absoluty in the best interests of your children that you leave him. It is precisely because them love him that you have to take them away. Your marriage is their blueprint for their own future relationships, they have no other point of reference. How would you feel if your dd married a man who abused her? How will you feel if your ds hits his wife. You have to SHOW them that this is not ok and must not be tolerated.

Stay jeté. We all know how hard this is. I stayed for far far too long because I thought it wad best for the kids. It's really really not.

Jeté?! Here

can i join? desperate to talk over my wrecked marriage but i am another one whose dh stalks mn. sigh.

he has moved out. i am thrilled but the post split contact is becoming fecking awful and has included hysterical screaming and name calling whilst holding dd (2) plus phone harrassment (risky detail already)

meanwhile i am studpidly excited about all the things dh cant spoil any more

Bellabing. I agree with everything everyone has said.

Please don't think anyone of us is brave. We have all been paralysed, all scared to breathe. Even those of lucky enough to find oursleves out, usually it's an opportunity that presents itself and we are just about brave enough for the instant required to take advantage of the situation and either get out or let him go.

Everyone of us here is in admiration of you. To put up with this actually takes supernatural strength, even if you can't see it yourself. One day you'll be able to use that strength to help your DC, help yourself to a happy, peaceful and safe environment.

Know that we are ALL in this together, Lurkers? You too! If a single word or phrasé resonates with you, acþ upon it, do what you know you need to do. If you can come here and post you too can help inspire other lurkers, other posters in similar situations to yours.

Remeber there are no worse than's here, and not a single 'lost cause' each and every one of us deserved a better life than the one these vile men have for us. Every. Single. One.

oh bell how awful for you and your DC. Relative newbie to all this myself but you do know this life you have now may seem lovely to everyone else on the outside, but in your heart you know different. You lied to cover his actions - you only lied because you know how wrong his behaviour is.

Please keep posting and/or reading - my H isnt physically abusive but I have learned so much from here and researching behaviours.

Stay strong petal,

love IWBF xxx

Bell Keep posting on here, tell someone in Real Life, and please if you can do so ring WA, they don't judge you, they don't take sides they are there to just simply listen and give you advice like a best friend would. You know you & your children don't deserve to be treated in this manner, I stayed with my X for the very same reason you did, I came from a broken family, mine would do the same be nice for MONTHS and then just switch, the links at the beginning are a worthwhile read in explaining this

cycle and the many other tools too. Everytime I would say to myself but the kids love him, yes they do but they also love you, as already mentioned, once you start to detach emotionally from the situation and start looking into the box from the outside you begin to realise what accustomed twats they really are? Halleyswaitress I send sympathies, same situation here & it is driving me nuts! The best 1 to date yet as he asked if I could pay HIM maintenance?! x

Twat is bouncing between mr nice/nasty like a demented ping pong ball. Ever since narc mother separated herself from the illusion of being a mother last week I find I couldn't give a shit about mr nice/nasty.
It's odd. I watch his attacks, his rants over the pork mince in the fridge with utter detachment. He wants to argue, I say "no, I know you want to but I'm not doing it" I come back in the room and he's all nice, what can he do to help etc. Again I watch this with utter detachment.
last week he sent a vile email, shortly followed by a nice email, telling me lots of good things about myself. I realised with amusement that I didn't give a shit about either of them.
He's taken to hanging round the kitchen, obviously hoping for convivial conversation. He doesn't get any.