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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in abusive relationships - thread 6

999 replies

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 01/11/2011 18:39

Welcome!

This is the latest instalment in a series of threads for those who are in abusive relationships, those who have left abusive relationships, and those gearing to leave.

Come vent, share, give and receive support.

The first question you may be asking yourself as a new visitor to this thread is:

Am I being abused?
Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books
"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites
So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

OP posts:
bejeezus · 01/01/2012 00:41

I have phone with me. Can't lock bedroom door. Got baby in bed with me but dd1 in her own bed. Maybe I should bring her in.

RudolphthePinkNosedReindeer · 01/01/2012 00:42

Hah! I stay up late partly because I quite like it and work well then, and also because I find it much easier to do things if AH is not around - if not out, then at least asleep. Also can't wait for him to be gone - he works from home and goes out much less than I do - but have to do these sums if my plan is to succeed.

motn · 01/01/2012 00:45

Doing it deliberately to unsettle you?
To "remind" you that it's "his" home?

I can imagine having him around is very oppressive.

Hope you can get some sleep..

bejeezus · 01/01/2012 00:48

Very possibly motn

bejeezus · 01/01/2012 08:15

Baby woke up which was a good distraction for me. And he went out.

Thanked guys for sittiing with me

Happy New Year to all x

Leverette · 02/01/2012 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ThereGoesTheFear · 03/01/2012 01:56

beeezus and the rest of You still on tenterhooks I hope you find some peace this year

I left my abusive H this time last year I cannot believe the change. My awesome fucking life free from terror. Grin

Marypoppins26 · 03/01/2012 12:02

Hi there, I just thought I would post here to hear your thoughts. I'm pretty sure I'm in an abusive relationship, although DH is promising the world to me now I'm about to leave. He has pushed or shoved me once or twice, and not for a while, so as far as he is concerned that element is over. He was very controlling about money, but he denies it completely, it's hard to prove who was right etc, but we now have a joint account, and he has agreed to making joint decisions about how to spend it. Previously he wanted to give me an allowance every month, which he would dictate what I'd spend it on, and I'd have to justify every penny!

We're going to go to counselling and he has agreed he'll go to individual counselling if the counsellor recommends it for him. Basically I wanted to check what you think about ridicule. Ever since I became pregnant he has made a farting noise every single time I sit down and stand up. So that has been for 2 years constantly. I do tell him to stop etc, but he's not bothered. Now I'm about to leave he has more or less stopped. He also makes a pig grunting noise whenever I eat.

We had a big heart to heart last night, with me laying down ground rules etc, so he is trying to be on best behaviour. But even so, this morning when I came out the bathroom he said ' eugh have you done a poo?' I hadn't. I almost couldn't be bothered bringing him up on it, but forced myself to say 'don't say that' he just laughed and said 'ooh I want to make love to you right now'

Would you say that sounds common in abusive relationships?

horsetowater · 03/01/2012 14:00

Hi Mary, this behaviour is at best childish but it is a way to belittle you and demean you - and so it is abusive. Essentially he's trying to make you feel bad but dressing it up as some kind of childish humour.

He is belittling you in this way because he is a coward. If he called you an ugly bitch (or whatever) these would be big words that you could write down and remember and call him on. You may have cried or angry or hurt him back. But keeping it subtle means that he gets the control (keeps you 'beneath' him) without the immediate reaction.

You may have been affronted and offended and you may have walked out a long time ago if it was more clear cut. This low-level belittling works because it ensures you stay. As you can see, now you are pulling him up on it he is reducing the behaviour in order to try to get you back.

In the future, if you wobble, try to remember this as evidence that he could always change and therefore it was always his choice to make the noises and comments in the first place. It doesn't sound nice but he's only changing because he doesn't want to lose you, not because he loves you, but he wants to keep you in his possession.

You have only put up with this low-level belittling because you are strong and are willing to see the best in him and overlook the 'little' stuff. Save your goodwill for someone who deserves it.

I get something similar - not as obvious, but he goes into child mode, almost as though someone else is speaking the words and I am a child that maybe he bullied as a 5 year old. It is almost exactly the kind of thing you see among little kids. I become someone to do something to, rather than someone to do something with.

On a deeper level he is creating a mental picture of you that is somehow repulsive, so that he can avoid getting close to you and continue to hurt you at the same time. It's called dehumanisation - it's what torturers do with their victims.

Marypoppins26 · 03/01/2012 15:12

Thanks for your response. Before you responded I read my message back and thought it sounded silly, like I was getting hung up on nothing. But I felt I had to post it because even though all the other bad behaviour has stopped, this morning when he left for work I still felt a bit wretched, and I couldn't work out why, and I think it is those stupid comments that put me down.

I'm in a very hard situation at the moment because it is so hard to leave, and on the outside everything looks great, so it would be so easy for me to pretend for a lot longer.

I know he is bad, when I was pregnant he made a point of calling me unattractive and ugly when we had fights. And I know he only said that because people were always saying how wonderful I looked, and I told him whenever that happened because he had never complimented me at all in pregnancy.

Does anyone have good stories of what made them leave and how they finally managed to leave?

HoudiniHissy · 03/01/2012 17:14

Mary, there is not a doubt in my mind that this chap is abusive.

You have to realise that you are better than this. I suggest you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. here It will help you start on the journey back to you, the one to freedom.

thebighouse · 03/01/2012 17:22

Hi all,
I am moving out this week. It is really hard and I keep going over and over in my mind wondering what I am doing! Everyone thinks he is so nice. It is so hard to explain to people who say 'but why?' and because I am the one leaving, they all assume I have done something awful. DH keeps telling me that I will be really unhappy for the rest of the my life and I will regret this decision forever. He is having a total breakdown.
I think the hardest thing is working out the practicalities - buying bedding etc. with no money! Although it's nice to sit in my flat (on the floor at the moment!) playing music that he would hate. Ha!
Then there is this other person who I have hardly seen but whenever I do, I just feel relaxed and happy and whatever I say, he doesn't get angry and he's just always nice and makes me laugh and asks me how he can help. I'm not rushing into anything, but it's a reminder that life doesn't have to be constantly walking on eggshells.
Confused post... sorry... just wanted to talk to someone! xxx

LittleGingerbreadHouse · 03/01/2012 18:39

Well done bighouse Don't try to justify yourself to anyone else. They will never understand and it doesn't matter anyway. We all know why you are leaving and it is right for you. The freedom of sleeping on the floor on a mattress with £5 IKEA bedding in your own space is heady and worth all the flack. Actually nobody ever actually asked straight out why I had left, I just alluded to "differences" and left them to wonder what he had done! people aren't stupid they know there are two sides to every story.

Go slowly with the OM. You need time and space to yourself at the moment. And it will help your reputation for you to be alone for a bit!

I know exactly what you mean about the astonishing way other people seem to like me and think I am nice. I am in shock from my New Year where I kept getting lovely comments and compliments and somehow feeling they were all making a mistake and I would be found out soon as the bad person H said I was

LittleGingerbreadHouse · 03/01/2012 19:02

MaryP going to joint counselling with an abusive person doesn't achieve anything except giving him more weapons to use against you. Keep an open mind but if you find yourself distressed or tearful after the sessions then maybe rethink how useful they are.

My H either used the sessions to explain how bad I was to the therapist, or blamed her for siding with me and being sexist etc. Somehow it was all me at fault and him the put upon one. I mainly just cried and apologised and felt awful! Individual counselling for you may be more useful.

Keep posting. It's a long journey but worth the pain and upheaval to get free of an abuser.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/01/2012 19:10

XH used to go on about what a boring voice I had and how I was always droning on in a monotone. Guess what, nearly everybody else in the world in space has felt like mentioning what a nice voice I have and several have even said it's sexy! (Whether what I'm saying is worth listening to is another question entirely.)

HoudiniHissy · 03/01/2012 20:30

Mine used to say that I have a voice like a man. I don't. People used to say I had a lovely sultry voice, perhaps it was a little deeper than other women, but I used to get comments all the time. I think I speak in a higher, softer pitch than is my norm now.

X used to mime a turning down of a volume button every time I spoke about something I wanted him to do/acknowledge/take responsibility for.

I used to think that was normal.

It's not right? Even the girls in the Freedom Programme were shocked, and they didn't know about the volume button stuff. It's bad isn't it?

I've now been talking to a guy for the last couple of weeks and we are going to meet for coffee the day after tomorrow. He compliments me on things I've said, done etc, my smartness, says that I'm lovely etc, it FLOORS me, I don't know what to say. he says I'm out of practice and that he's only using the mildest compliments he has for me... Blush It makes me feel out of my 'comfort zone', but i know it's healthy, I know I have to start taking on board these comments.

My new friend is exceptionally bright, he ought to know what he's talking about right? I just hope to believe them one day. Even just a bit, but I'm scared of seeming arrogant... I feel like I don't deserve to feel 'greatness'.

Even from my counsellor, I can't quite believe him when he says I'm brave etc. And he should know right? He's not feeding me a line is he?

I HAVE achieved much in my life, but X would tear every shred of pride from me, belittle everything I did, poo-poo it all, or sulk/punish until I stopped talking about the things I was proud of.

Fingers crossed for me on Thursday? I could really do with it working out, he is adorable. and god knows I HATE the online dating thing

HoudiniHissy · 03/01/2012 20:32

Sorry swapped a paragraph about there, the friend and the counsellor bit, so it is a little nonsensical... Blush

LittleGingerbreadHouse · 03/01/2012 21:23

Hissy that is exciting - I will cross things for you on Thursday! What are you going to do?

Things are working out nicely for me with the Very Nice Man, whose Ex seems to have been quite unkind if not abusive so we are in Recovery together. It is funny how often we surprise each other just with everyday niceness like making a cup of tea or giving a neck rub or a compliment which seems such a huge deal when you are not used to it.

We need to recalibrate behaviour to expect respect and consideration and not think it is a big deal. Meanwhile it is lovely!!

RudolphthePinkNosedReindeer · 03/01/2012 21:47

Hissy even the most self-confidant of us take initial compliments with a pinch of salt. But I like salt Xmas Wink. Remember, he may or may not be seeing you from an awestruck postion, especially if he has self-esteem issues (does he?)

RudolphthePinkNosedReindeer · 03/01/2012 21:48

*confident - and I used to be such a good speller Xmas Sad Xmas Grin

Flanelle · 03/01/2012 22:04

Hello everyone. Wanted to come on and pour my heart out really, about past things now, but just to share and to say how it was for me and how it is.
13 months ago I left my husband, and we share custody of our two sons. He has them two nights a week, usually at the weekend (skimming off the cream if you ask me, but then I do like the rest, so it's doable, and I get one weekend a month wth them.

We met at university when I was 19 and he was 22 (he was a postgrad) and got together very fast. I remember him telling me, early on, how amazing it was that I knew just how to calm him and handle him when he was upset - and I was flattered. It took me almost twenty years to work out that this was a very early sign that he had no ability and no inclination to handle himself, and would rather lean on me relentlessly for support and reassurance.

Eighteen months ago I found myself deeply depressed, eight stone overweight and cutting my wrists in the kitchen. I got counselling, in which I talked around my feelings and relationships. I had no self-esteem at all and was worn out caring for my sons and their father. The boys are hard work, as both have secial needs, but so rewarding and loving and nice, whereas their father undermined and belittled me in return. I ran the house on a smallish housekeeping allowance, despite him having a good job, but found I couldn't afford things like new glasses for myself - I wore glasses that were so scratched that I could only really see out of the sides of them for over a year and he never helped me out. It turned out that his drinking problem was worse than I knew and that he was drinking between £100 and £200 every month in secret whilst pleading total poverty and that he could have helped me at any time but just didn't.

Instead I got a constant hard time about how poor a manager I was and how his mother used to manage her house - what a lazy housekeeper I was, despite doing everything ... EVERYTHING ... from the front hedge to the back wall except the few things he really liked doing - like reading the bedtime stories - which was also my favourite time of day. The cooking (my very good cooking) was never right even though we only ate what he liked and rarely what I did. I was reminded all the time how well off dual-earnings couples he knew were in a way that reproached me for being at home. But he also poured cold water on all my plans for my future.

He can't bear competition, or people looking like they might be further ahead than him, or more knowledgeable or cultivated or anything than him. To an extent which upset friends of ours who found his paranoid comparisons wearing - and felt reproached as I did, almost as if they were doing it on purpose. Not a compromiser. Ever.

And latterly I was pressured into sex and called cold - an ice maiden - when I was reluctant. The last time we had sex he wouldn't let up until I gave in. He told me I owed him. I wasn't clear in my mind until quite recently that there's another word for that, but it was the thing that tipped me over the edge anyway. I finally saw that nothing I wanted or needed was any kind of priority for him. That basically all my needs were seen to be in direct conflict with his and were a cause for anger (killer looks - real rage - though no hitting - he didn't really need to as I was well controlled by sulks and fear). Even my need for rest when ill - it always angered him, and I was ill quite frequently in the last two years of my marriage.

I left him last November and haven't been ill since. I lock the door and I'm safe from all judgements, all coercion, all criticisms of my opinions and habits and looks and behaviour and hopes and needs. It's wonderful. I told him I was leaving in about July and it was an appalling summer while I made my plans and arrangements and managed his tempers and panic and heard really vicious things about my mothering and being to blame for his drinking problem (which he's had since he was 14 tbh, so hardly my fault really).

I have to say that I'm not angry with him at all. Sometimes when I remember things I feel a great deal of anxiety and fear. I wasn't in touch with all my responses at the time - I felt kind of dead really - so often now I deal with feelings that I didn't really access at the time and that can be very stressful, but I do it safely at home, in my home, and I can do it ok.

But not really anger, not now. Just a bit sometimes, and it fuels me to be better and stronger and genuinely assertive and really the bigger person (even though I've lost 6 stone :-).

I know, without a doubt, that while he's ignorant and spectacularly selfish he's got very little malice in him. Just zero awareness. Given the true appallingness of his upbringing its a genuine miracle he's only as appalling as he is. And however appalling he is to be around, it's far more apalling to be him and I never forget that. I just can't be around it any more.

I'm studying for my dream career now. I'm in good shape. 2012 has my name ALL over it :-D

horsetowater · 03/01/2012 22:19

Happy new year Flanelle! I'm so glad I read this just now, thank you.

I like the sentiment that it's worse to be him than to be around him. It's kind of how I feel too.

Flanelle · 03/01/2012 22:25

Thanks horse & happy new year to you too!

horsetowater · 03/01/2012 22:26

Guess who managed to let dd sleep in on the first day back to school? Guess who said - "well I set her alarm but she just didn't wake up".

I have taken 3 days off. I stayed on holiday and let him take them back. I didn't fuss about what he knew he had to do, I treated him like an adult. He behaves like a fecking student.

And needless to say I've had to do over-the-phone revision with dd2 for tomorrow's test.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/01/2012 22:38

XH used to fetch me from the station every evening (sounds kind, although I would have preferred to drive myself but there was always some reason why I couldn't, usually one of the cars developing a mysterious fault. He also wouldn't hear of me walking to and from the station for the short period when we lived within 10 minutes' walk of it, although again I would have preferred to). One evening he dozed off instead, so I rang home and he came out quickly enough, to be fair. However he tried to blame the DCs for not waking him. I gave that one short shrift.

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