Support for those in abusive relationships - thread 6

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

Welcome!

This is the latest instalment in a series of threads for those who are in abusive relationships, those who have left abusive relationships, and those gearing to leave.

Come vent, share, give and receive support.

The first question you may be asking yourself as a new visitor to this thread is:

Am I being abused?
Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books
"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites
So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

Fool I have no experience of this and no advice to offer. You did what you thought was best for the kids in letting him have plenty of contact, we still can't help thinking there is a decent human being in there if the circumstances were right, but it seems not

It's good the DC are telling you what they really feel.

well, he says love them, be consistent, set boundaries, call unreasonable behaviour and give them the tools to criticise the media/behaviour they see ie to be thoughtful in the way they see the world so they make choices rather than fall into behaviours.

His chapters on the legal system is too based in US to be muc specific use...I was wondering if there is anything that can be done here to protect them/distance them from him?

this relates to "nettles" link to the possible mumsnet campaign...we women probably, in the end and with much help and support can walk away, the courts and common beliefs inflict the men (or women) on the children for many years, in the "knowledge" that contact with both parents is in the child's best interest but I believe there is new research (on adults) that suggests that in abusive relationships the children fare better in adulthood if contact was suspended or limited (need to find reference)

"He" is Lundy by the way (slow to post!!!!!)

I think I am now fully clothed in teflon as far as his abuse of me is concerned...and this is why he is turning his attention to the children, I think

Hi all

Hope everyone is ok.

Was arguing with myself over if I can post and hold my head up. I'm ashamed that I havn't yet had the balls to ask H to leave, seen a few posts on here where ladies are congratulated for "kicking them out straight away unlike some who put up with the shit for ages". Anyhow needed some MN perspective about something so will ask anyway .

H is really not much different, he thinks he is trying but he just cant do it (everyone was right about that - they just cant/dont want to change behaviour). The nicer I am to him seems to give him the green light to be a total shit to me.

Yesterday he said something to DS (12) that really brought home what type of man he is. DS is getting a little puppy fat (I did this at his age) and I know he will grow about 2 foot in the next 2 years and he will be fine, he is not overweight but also not very sporty(chip off my block again).

H went to get the rubbish out of his room and started getting at him over how many empty bags of crisps were in his bin. Ok I thought he does eat a few too many but walked up the stairs incase he upset him too much (he often does). He walked over to DS who was just sat in PJ bottoms and said "this is why you've got this (pinched his bit of tummy fat) and these (pinched the bit of fat on his little chest). I immediately challenged him on this and reassured DS theres nothing wrong with him - but comments like this from your own dad can change how you feel about yourself surely - or am I overreacting?

Ds said for the rest of the night dad called him fat, which he didnt but DS now thinks he is..

I've had in my head that old chestnut of getting xmas out of the way....just rambling now, would appreciate any opinions..

On another note, dont know if I'm just hoping but DH is growing his hair, showering alot, perfectly ironing his shirts on a morning and mistakenly called me a different name the other day............heres hoping.

Love IWBF xx

iWBF: don't you ever worry about your progress/schedule. You are doing what you can.

My love, the reason women are congratulated on getting out of an abusive relationship is precisely because of the herculean strength needed to do so.

Joke is,it's only once you actually DO work up the balls to do it, and actually do leave/get him to go, do you realise that it was a lot easier than you thought.

Your H comment about your DS is beyond shit. It's abuse. He's doing what he does to you to your son.

The sooner you sort this out and get H away from you all the better. In the meantime, you sit your boy down and tell him what you just told us, that he will need that skin to grow into. If the crisps thing IS excessive, then talk to him about the importance of moderation, but state that you know how nmuch he will grow, and that many boys bulk up slightly before a growth spurt.

Thanks Hissy, needed that.

His nephew (17) was diagnosed with anorexia last week, I just thought are you f*ing thick - he cant be, he's just horrible.

For some reason when he does it to the kids it affects me more than when he does it to me - I just couldn't live with myself if his words/actions towards them seriously damaged their self esteem/self image. I am planning and visualising a life without him but need to make bigger steps to make it happen. Working on it.....

Thanks again (feel invisibly supported now )

Love

IWBF xx

IWBF you're doing a really hard thing right now in facing up to the fact that the way he's treating you is all wrong. And you're building up the self-esteem to believe that you deserve better and can do something about it. That's huge, and exhausting, and you're doing all that right now.

When I did leave, life was so much better than before that I wished I'd left earlier. But I couldn't have done it before I was ready, and if I'd done it because I'd been pushed by someone else, it wouldn't have been much good for either my ability to stay away, or my self-esteem.

You're not overreacting. That was a cruel thing to say and do to your son. The sort of thing a 12yo bully would do in the changing room. Your H is a horrible, immature, bullying man and he doesn't even have the basic human instinct of being caring towards his own son.

Keep your eyes open as you're probably not even noticing the daily cruelties towards you. Keep a note of them and build up enough, stone upon stone until one day you'll look at the big pile and you can't do anything other than leave him. That day will come, when you're ready.

Fool hope all the school concerts etc are going OK and you're in your serene bubble again. Thanks for the other Lundy recommendation. ("When Dad Hurts Mom"). It's not very comfortable reading, but necessary for me, I think.

Life awful here.
It's getting worse due to OH's picking on Kids....need serious change and some light at end of tunnel.
Glad thread has resuscitated, was beginning to feel very lonely!!!!

best wishes to all

IWBF one day it will be right to go. But it can be unbelievably hard after too...so make sure you are sure and have all your soldiers lined up so you can keep going.
One day it will be behind you, keep realising XXFool

IWBF well done for keeping the thread up. We all need this space to remind us we are not alone, we are not imagining things and we can make life better for ourselves and our families.

TGTF sorry life is awful. It is even harder to bear the hurt when it is your children who are suffering. But they will be resilient and your steady support will help them.

"Getting through Xmas" is a sad idea when it should be a time to look forward to and enjoy not to dread and worry over.

I look forward to everyone on this thread being able to celebrate the holiday happily and without fear.

Meanwhile we need regular sessions to raise morale with Mince pies and Baileys!

Remember that this thread is the 6th. It sometimes slips down the active list, but it is always here.

Stick it on your watched threads if it helps, come and post whenever you need to. Even the ones that started this thread all that time ago are still here, we still need support, understanding and the companionship of our sisters-in-arms.

Those of you still battling, still deep in the trenches, know this: You will get free of this all one day. One day he WON'T be calling the shots in your life, won't be ordering you and the kids about. You won't be seeking his permission to live, to breathe, to be.

One day you WILL be out and you WILL be free.

When you do find yourself on the other side, you will be stunned by the simplicity of it all. You will be shocked at how easy it was to do, once you were ready to leave/get rid. OK so you may kick yourself that it took so long, we ALL do/did that. Every single one of us. But the fact remains that we ARE out, we ARE putting our lives together again, our DC DID show immediate and dramatic improvement once the stress and tension of the abuser was gone from the immediate environment.

What I want you ALL to realise is that we all know how hard it is to do, but we all know that there really ISN'T a plan B. Until you are in the right place to make the move you know you must, we are ALL here to love, encourage and support you, no matter what.

Perhaps those of you that are dreading christmas can think, perhaps this is the last one I will dread? perhaps 2012 will be the year I get us out of this.

Dig deep, you ALL have the strength you need to do this already, inside of each and every one of you. Your strength thus far is being used to glue together a fatally flawed relationship. Once you let go of that, you can use the strength to fight for your own space, freedom and happiness.

Dear All
just wanted to echo HH's thoughts.
Being on here is courage is enough for some at the moment as they work out the next step. This is not a place for anyone to criticise or push anyone else into action. There is a very good bit on WA site about how to support someone in the middle of an abusive relationship which basically says don't dictate because at times that can seem like abuse from another direction. Everyone in their own time will find the steps they need to take.
I'm looking forward to Christmas for the first time in many years. Yes, a little sad and not what I would have wanted but better than tiptoeing through the minefield of upset, violence, bad language, bad moods, threats of self-harm.
There was the one where he called a c*, the one where he sat and watched me with a toddler trying to do everything while he did nothing, the one where he wouldn't even speak to his DS. And I kept hoping that if I did everything right, he would be all right.
2011 was the year I threw away my wishbone and grew a backbone. It's been hard but life for me and the DCs is slowly getting better.

Thanks for the replies and support, its so good to know I can always come here.

Keeping my head focused on my Shawshank visual - its a long tunnel of shit to crawl through, but soon I will be on that beach in he sunshine too.

Sending strength to everyone who needs it.

IWBF xx

Strength needed, strength received thanks IWBF

Some days it just looks like there will never be a place to be free in. Please let this man get out of my life properly. If I knew there really would be peace at last I think I'd find an extra level of energy!

Kieep on keeping on all of you and hope that you find this Christmas time

Still around, still on with the figures (well I'm accounting for my married life ater all), and now have a brand new colour printer which I will get set up sometime soon, honest. Currently summoning courage to go shopping. Have abandoned all ideas of sending xmas cards. I had suggested to AH who is still under this roof that we send cards together, he decided not, spoke to DM today and she has got one from AH, he has signed it AH, DC1, DC2 (they are young adults). Got to laugh

Sorry post was inspired by me wanting to say how useful it is to have this thread to post random bits and pieces that others will understand

Hi Nosey
I wasn't going to do cards then realised my friends don't have my new address so pulled my finger out and did thirty last night.

I upset myself foolishly today. I took DS (16) out to lunch and he was bothered that H had asked him to buy a Christmas tree and take it home (on foot??). I offered to help him with the car so we got a tree and I helped him set it up in the stand. It meant going back and seeing all the cards written by our mutual friends to H and the DC as well as all the Christmas decorations I collected over 28 years. H never helps with any of that and they were MINE!! But I don't want the DC to go without them. Is it ridiculous to be missing the tree baubles? My tree is very pretty but lacks the history of all those home made things.

Posting random bits and pieces is right... when they pop into your head

oh fuck, fuck ,fuck. got to do the happy families thing with the inlaws tomorrow. feeling a bit pissed off cos h (seperated) is driving down with them and going back with them and I am having a grump at getting everything ready.

I know I am better off without him around but sometimes I have an it's not fair moment. though I have it a lot better than most. jsut wanted to hide at the end of a thread and have awhinge.

little gingerbread sorry about the baubles. sometimmes it is the little things that really hurt.

oh and you go when you go, I will be free. there will come a point when you are ready. sometimes you look back and think you should have done it before. If only I had gone earlier before the children were too traumatised by it. of course if I had gone when things first started then there would be no children at all and I would not be without them, but on the other hand I also blame myself for bringing dc2 into the world knowing his dad was violent. I don't think it had really sunk in for dc1.

aggggghh h it is all going round my head a lot at the moment.

Hi both. Littlehouse sometimes you have to attach your memories to one representative thing. Haven't you got anything to put on your tree to remind you of all the good bits of the Christmases you've had? If not, could you buy some little thing that might act as a focus? Today I bought a little Christmas tree cake decoration to go on the Yule Log with the robin, it will be a memory of the good things about this Christmas, at least

I have done almost all the food shopping, even though it was quiet, cos I can choose my times to be out of synch with those who are making the tea, it was still exhausting. Good fun tho, and DD unpacked it all.

Hi everyone, I used to be Barbiegrows and have been through dp's last option which was counselling. We had 8 weeks of couples counselling. The woman was culturally similar to him, even she didn't get to the bottom of the problems we have. So I gave him the EA book, he read one chapter and turned it onto me. That was in May. In October I threatened a split, he agreed to counselling and I said that's our last try. Now counselling is finished and it's Christmas.

After October he slept in the spare room, then ended up back in with me, now I'm in the spare room. It's nice in here, mattress on the floor, door firmly shut, I get a good night's sleep.

And wherever I go and whatever I do I think and know that he won't change.

Can't remember your story horse, but hello . I'm in the master bedroom with the en suite, ah is in the spare

I get a good night's sleep too, but only if the cat does not decide to spend the first part of the night on my bed, waking me in the wee small hours to be let out and to hassle for biscuits

And tonight he starts with his very subtle undermining, he turns things from being lighthearted banter to out of the blue hostile. But subtle hostile - no direct blame or obvious stuff I can record, write down and show anyone, stuff that is so subtle that it's immeasurable, except in the way it makes me feel.

DD is 13 now, and picks it all up.

I've looked at flats to rent and as we share the house I'm happy to move out if need be (with kids of course). He can support himself even though he's just lost his job he's capable of earning but he wont move out without a big struggle.

I just read the stuff about angry relationships and co-dependency from the link on the first page. My this thread has come a long way! I was here on thread one! But it's very clear I'm co-dependent. What I like about the explanation on the link is it showed how I'm going to have to behave to shake off the co-dependency. The things that ring out are 'Going to have to stop appearing to be the nice person'. He will definitely see me as an ogre doing this but that's OK. The other one is 'Going to have to deal with the fact that he is not a part of you'. That's the thing that has kept me hooked for so long. I remember very early on in our relationship, finding myself out without him by my side and feeling unable to express myself well or hold a conversation (20 years ago). I'm pretty sure that he had a hold on me then, I became dependent.

Things have already changed, I disengaged quite a while ago, but have been regularly drawn back in again. And hey presto, just as I'm feeling comfortable he comes up with his subtle but scathing remark. But generally, he bores me to death now, I don't even like him much any more. I'm not interested in what he hast to say, and I don't want him near me. I still turn away when he wants a goodbye kiss. But he'll occasionally come up with 'I want a cuddle'. And of course, I don't. I never thought I would feel this. I can cuddle my children, I can hug friends, but I don't want him touching me.

Sorry to go on and on, it's been ages since I was here. I didn't want to bore you all with the minutiae.

He used the counselling against me of course, everything the counsellor said that could be seen as questioning my motives, was a weapon he used on the way home in the car. What a fool.

Oh, and on Saturday when I was going out I said I might have a drink so won't drive there. He said 'that's great that means I can have my wicked way with you when you get back'. Ha bloody ha. I said no - that's rape. Cue the 'I'm only joking, blablabla...'

Fool.

Sorry to do all this serial posting. I'm feeling positive now the longest night is out of the way.

I so know what you mean about being somehow being part of each other. We have been together a long time, we were like two knarled intertwined trees, each distorting the other's growth. Now I am untwining us, and am growing taller and stronger by the day.

Hi Rudolph, this was in the 'Psychological Reversal' section on the Angriesout page linked at the beginning of the thread.

Codependency
I will have to BECOME MORE ASSERTIVE AND SAY NO
I will have to HURT OTHER PEOPLE'S FEELINGS
I will have to be ASSERTIVE AND CONFRONT SOMEONE
I will have to GIVE UP MY IMAGE OF BEING THE GOOD GUY OR GOOD GAL
I will have to STOP CARING MORE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS THAN MY OWN
I will have to start TAKING BETTER CARE OF MYSELF
I will have to STOP BEATING MYSELF UP AND FOCUS ON THE SOLUTIONS
I CAN'T MEET MY OWN NEEDS AND OTHERS at the same time
I will have to GIVE UP MY BELIEF THAT I AM NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT THE ONE I LOVE
I may have to BREAK MY CODEPENDENT UNHEALTHY, ATTACHMENTS WITH LOVED ONES
I may have to GIVE UP UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS
I may have to GIVE UP POSITIVE ILLUSIONS
I may be HARMED IF I CONFRONT MY PARTNER
I may have to LIVE ALONE IF I CONRONT MY PARTNER
I will have TO ADMIT WHAT I HAVE BEEN DENYING MY UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP
I will no longer BE ABLE TO FOOL MYSELF ABOUT MY PARTNER'S ACTIONS
I will have to STOP USING MY CONCERN ABOUT MY PARNTER AND FACE MY REAL ISSUES

Although after reading about co-dependency it's also important to read Greg Dear's analysis of co-dependency (in the books section) - under Puppy's subheading "but don't blame yourself for being co-dependent" which says that it's just a coping strategy you have developed, rather than a fault in your personality.

But you know what, I think I've done all of the things on this list (if I read it as a to-do list) except the one in italics. So it's all good.

Interesting that when I talk of leaving he always assumes that I'm looking for someone else. He knows that's my weak point.