In such a mess here I can't see clearly anymore please tell me WWYD x

[Shambles40]

Hello.
I'm in a real mess here and would really appreciate a bit of honest advise.
Dh and I are living a complete fake life.
We have been married 20 years and have 4 Dc aged 18 15 8 and 1.
We have a nice house , 2 cars and both have good jobs.
I have lots of genuine and lovely friends.
I've been unhappy for many years and asked DH for a split many many times.
When we met at 19 we were completely different people to the people we are now.
I'm being completely honest now but all we have in common is our lovely children.
We have sex on average once or twice a year, always initiated by me.
the last time we had sex was when I conceived dd who is now 16 months.
all my friends think he is so good looking and lovely but I just don't find him attractive anymore because he feels more like a friend / brother to me these days.
Anyway after ds 8 years ago I realised I could never get out of the relationship because he refused point blank to leave so I made myself a promise - that I would never let our baby hear us argue or show the bitterness we now both harboured in front of him.
I can't say my husband abused me because I was just as horrid back to him, but always bit my Tongue in front of dc, even sitting in the car with my baby for hours some evenings until we both could return to the same room and be civil.
Since dd was born we can't even be civil to each other.
it's got nasty and every night now he mumbles under his breath horrible things, but loud enough for dc to hear.
he knows that upsets me more than anything.
I have begged him to leave but he won't go.
yes I could go but he won't pay the mortgage and then well all be homeless.
I have to be realistic. . . I have a job locally and am well known in the community in a professional capacity. I cannot just walk out with 4 dc in tow and shack up in a flat . my parents are not an option, my mother will or would be more traumatised what people think if we split up and prob won't speak to me for years.
my DH came from a family where his parents had a mainly non intimate relationship and his father had his own bedroom most of their marriage. he saw this as normal.
I can't bare him even touching me now. When he brushes past me I want to scream.
It's been really awful for probably 6 months.
We speak when we have to and apart from that neither of us can bare being in the same room.
I feel like I'm watching my dc inner spirit get sucked out and it's killing me.They just hear us bicker every night and this will be what they base their future relationships on.
Now if I have to I will be strong again and pretend eveything is ok JUST FOR THEM. DH wants this and when I told him I really don't love him he just shrugged his shoulders and said I should try to for the dc. I can continue to pretend outside the house and start pretending inside again if it's for the best.
That will be hard.
Or I can insist we separate and initially wreck my dc and his life, maybe just because I'm after something that doesn't exist anyway ?
would I be doing it purely because I think I'd have a relationship one day which might be better ?
Is what we have normal for some ?
I DO have feelings for him because we've been together over 20 years and he's a fabulous father of my 4 dc. however I have no sex life and he has never once taken me out, told me I'm pretty or gone out with a friend. He has no friends goes nowhere and just wants to come shopping with me for his trip out !I want to feel something with someone one day and even if I don't I really rea
Ly don't want my dc thinking what we have is normal because the lack of any affection between us is horrid.
Would I cope as a single parent ? he says not. Shit I can't even change a lightbulb ! The thought of nights up alone with sick children terrifies me because we have always done everything together even though I'm always the one who makes any sort of decision .
Give me some strength to at least pretend I'm happy in front of the children . maybe a few home truths ? they come first so I must change something x

You sound really unhappy.

Read this back:

"We have been married 20 years and have 4 Dc aged 18 15 8 and 1.

I've been unhappy for many years and asked DH for a split many many times.

However I have no sex life and he has never once taken me out, told me I'm pretty."

Are these the most important issues for you?

If he won't leave, you and the kids should go.
What a horrible life you are all leading. I cannot see that the children are getting any positives from you staying together. Being in a small flat where they don't have to listen to their parents hating each other would be bliss, I imagine.
You would cope as a single mum. You would.
Get a grip, find some courage, take charge of your life and happiness.

You have 3choices

Try to go on living like this for teh next 17 years until your yougest is 18
Try to fix your marriage
Go and see a lawyer and agree to seperate

What do ybou want to do?

Of course you can change a lightbulb! It has to be easier than the current impasse you have. You can cope. You have a good job, you need to plan what finances you need, what benefits you are entitled to.

Like Nun says, take charge of your happiness. Well said.

Hi Lapsed. . .no taking me out and telling me I'm pretty def not most important issues. I do wonder sometimes tho how nice it must be to snuggle to someone you really want to snuggle up to tho.My best friend always goes to sleep wrapped up wit her DH even after 20 years and she s always moaning that here DH is wanting sex at all hours and I think lucky you !
nonthewiser. . . He is a good Dad and he completely adores his dc and it will wreck him being ale to live with them every day .
another part of me thinks he's 46 years old and needs to put the dc first and he wold prob be a happier person apart from me .

For all the distance and heartache, you two seem entwined

(Btw you can change a lightbulb, it's just you've never done it before! And the good thing about a handyman is you just pay them to do whatever job you can't do on a day you choose! So much easier than nagging...)

Good luck x

It only takes one person to end a marriage.
You don't have to have his permission or approval.
"I cannot just walk out with 4 dc in tow and shack up in a flat"
"shack up"? You seem to think there is some terrible stigma attached but there isn't. It's 2011, not 1911.

In any case he should be the one to go, whether he wants to or not.
You need to get legal advice.
And do you have a friend you can talk to? You seem to have some odd ideas about marriage and divorce mixed up with huge amounts of unnecessary guilt and shame. Someone else's perspective on your situation might be useful and surprising.

lesseroftwo evils you are right.
that's a very helpful and reassuring post more so than you prob realise .
perhaps there is more of more of my mother in me than I thought !

Sorry, I am very blunt sometimes, I hope I didn't sound sympathetic.
I was in a similar position once, and hung on to a relationship for much longer than it deserved because I didn't think I could cope on my own even with the practicalities of life. But I could and did.
What you're going through sounds completely unbearable. I expect if you were on your own the biggest thing you would feel is not fear but relief.
You have a good job which you do perfectly competently, a social life, ditto, and you run a house and look after your children perfectly well.
The last two are easier if you have a loving partner, but in the absence of such a person you will be fine on your own.

I hope I didn't sound unsympathetic.

Why on earth did you take the risk of bringing another baby into this mess?

If you stay you will be unhappy forever.

Ask yourself how long you can tolerate being this unhappy, OP? Have you both grown to dislike each other so strongly? It sounds like you are in a stale mate situation.

You have no cuddles, no affection/sex (last time you two were intimate was 16 MONTHS ago when you conceived your youngest), no social life with DH?, no going out together as a couple, no friendship, no communication. And, it's deteriorated to regular derogatory name-calling/words under his breath which have become loud enough for your dc to hear and understand.

Do you make any plans together?

You can, in reality, start a divorce now if you want to. You could go to a solicitor tomorrow if you wanted to.

I don't think you should be taking into account your mother's estimated reaction of being traumatised by what people would think and probably never speak to you again . If that is how she does end up reacting if you split, I think your mother would show herself to be of a shallow and selfish mentality, who does not care for the happiness and well-being of her daughter and grandchildren. But, there are alot of people of our parents' generation who still do think that you have to soldier on.

The future looks pretty good for you without your H. You have your four children. You have a network of good friends. You have a good job. And you could both continue to parent your DC.

Well I walked out with 4dc in tow! Best thing I ever did

I think legal advice about the house would be best. He may agree to go when he realises that financially, it will be best option.

Your dc will appreciate a happy mum far more than one who pretends. Forget your mother and what the community think!

OP - You look after and manage a home with four children (yes, you have some support at the moment as there are two of you). You would still have support with the dc from their father continuing to parent. You hold down a good job. You will definitely be able to change a light bulb etc.

You are a capable woman.

the 18 & 15 year olds can stay with dad in the house so that leaves you and two others. Not really that difficult to leave if you are as unhappy as you say you are.

Go to a solicitor. See exactly where you stand. Then make informed choices.

I?m not very articulate and it?s taken me ages to type this so things may have moved on now but what I?m hearing you saying is that you have a comfortable life with your H but it?s all fake. You sound very unhappy. You also sound preoccupied by what everyone else will think, as well as worrying about the practicalities of splitting up.

?maybe just because I'm after something that doesn't exist anyway? I think we all deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. No one deserves to have their H muttering things under their breath about us unkindly. That is awful and not normal.

?would I be doing it purely because I think I'd have a relationship one day which might be better? Possibly but everybody ought to have feel loved. There?s nothing wrong with that.

If you cannot be civil to each other that is very harmful for your DCs as you recognise

?I can't bare him even touching me now. When he brushes past me I want to scream.? This makes me so sad to read. I think you?d be doing yourself a disservice to remain together if you feel like this. Children aren?t daft and no matter how you behave on the outside they can see beneath it. I also do not think what you have is normal for some. In this day and age you do not need to ?put up and shut up? as someone else said it?s not 1911. A sexless unhappy marriage? Nobody warrants that.

?Give me some strength to at least pretend I'm happy in front of the children? I am sending you strength but actually to leave this situation.

You will be a better mother and feel better within yourself too when you?re no longer in this situation. It is possible once the initial turbulence of separating is over to have a good co parenting relationship. My ExH and I now co parent very well and the children are settled and happy. I felt very guilty for a time at the children growing up in a broken home (for want of a better word) but I am happy and so are they now. I also surprised myself with how I learnt to manage, learnt to do DIY and a number of other things. It is a very scary step to take and I was afraid of what others would think and how I would manage but you just do. Especially if you have good friends to call on. If you go and see a solicitor and start to arm yourself with information you may find you feel calmer. It is natural to feel like your mind is a washing machine over a big step like this but I hope you can post on here to help clear your head in the weeks ahead.

It is always worth considering marriage counseling before divorce and I think mediation is now compulsory in the divorce process, but I could be wrong. But please do not stay together through fear of what others may think.

What is the most important thing out of what you said?

18 yo at Uni and comes home weekends to work.
Dd 15 wouldn't stay with her dad much as she loves him and she is in middle of gcses wanting to study vetinary which is going to be hard enough. Also she adores her siblings so much she would want to wake up in the same house every day. She sneaks dd into bed with her sometimes they are so close x

You seem so unhappy yet so determined to do nothing about it. You seem overly concerned with your status in society (I can't imagine what your job is as your status doesn't seem to give you enough money to move out) and with what your mother will say.

Your children will be very unhappy with your relationship with your husband. I would hate to live in an atmosphere like that.

You should go to see a solicitor and speak to him/her about a divorce. Find out exactly what your situation is. Then speak to your husband. I don't think you should be the one to move out if you are going to live with the children.

Your husband will remain a nasty piece of work and you have a choice whether to remain with him or not. Divorce is not a crime; it's a response to an intolerable situation. My marriage was a lot better than yours and I divorced him - the relief was tremendous.

Mediation is not compulsory. It is often advised in a divorce. If you stayed together you would have to be civil to each other. An 8 year old is totally able to observe and take on board an atmosphere between two parents. It's a shame when they see no demonstration of affection between their parents at home. Some couples aren't demonstrative, but at least they show they are respectful and are friends.

Can you two sit down and talk/think about counselling?

Hi Shambles, my parents had a poor relationship, no actual abuse or violence but unhappiness, frustration & lots of seething. My DSis's & I were brought up unhappy, with lots of resultant MH issues, relationship issues. I would never put my DMum (DDad sadly deceased) through the stress of making her face up but thats how it was .

I'm sorry to be blunt but its hugely better to separate than to stay together in these circs, IMO.

yes I can see your point. my DH is not nasty tho he just refuses to acknowledge anything that doesn't involve staying together.

I'm not bothered really what people think although I'm only recently realising that my parents are entirely concerned with what folk think and really couldn't give a fuck about what's important unless someone is looking iykwim.
I'm more concerned about hurting DH tbh because he isn't a bad person and he is a fantastic dad.I just don't want to be married to him .
it will tear him apart not leaving me but not being here 24/ 7.
oh gosh I must do something I just wish I knew what was best and it was all over.
he threatened to kill himself if he had to leave but I'm sure he was just desparate for me to carry on as usual. I'm so horrible to him sometimes he deserves better.
also I'm drinking too much now because I can forget and that's wrong too. X
I must seem like an awfully weak person just coming on here and moaning but not actively doing anything.
we went to relate a couple of weeks ago and I was hoping they would help but haven't heard when they can start seeing us properly yet and it could be 6 weeks.

Look, you really don't have to stay with a man who considers you an object, a domestic appliance, someone less important than him. He won't change. Consult a solicitor so you can find out what can be done ie whether he can be made to leave, whether you can force the sale of the house etc. Once you know the facts, then you can plan your next step.
But this man is not entitled to own you and prevent you ending the relationship.

Idjustassoonkissazombie. . Thank you so much for your post .
I'll read it again later I have to go out now . thanks again. the most important thing without reading my post back is the dc ESP my ds 8. X

My parents weren't nasty either, just not very happy and stayed together anyway.

this sounds so similar to me, although my relationship has been abusive in the past and now is just non existent really. I don't want to be touched, kissed or held by him anymore, and although we do still have sex, it does nothing for me and I dread it. I want to be loved, have great sex, and be held all night. I also just want to be happy, and for my dcs to be happy without having to listen to the arguing and bickering. My full thread, as I needed to share my story, is here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1322572-Dont-want-to-be-married-anymore-unhappy-but-scared
I'm not proud of my actions with the OM, and wouldn't advocate this as an option, but at least I know I can still have fantastic sex and enjoy it, and it was so good to be held and cuddled all night when my OM and I had a whole night together.
As you will see from my thread, this hasn't been the answer for me as (for now anyway, don't ask) I have given him up, but it makes me realise I have got to get out of my relationship and be happy, and for my dcs to be happy too.
Not sure this helps, but you are not alone in feeling this way ((hugs))