Does anyone plain just not fancy their DH? At all.

[StrugglingSlightly]

Been with DH 9 years and married for 7. Before we got married i was worried about our drastically tapering sex life but when i tried to discuss it with friends they dismissed it as 'it's what happens in long term relationships'. So swallowing my misgivings i got married to a kind, sweet and gentle man. Who has also become increasingly wealthy. My life is pretty fantastic on the surface but i just cannot have sex with him, it turns my stomach. He's not at all unattractive but i just find him so, school boy and inept that i resent it hugely.

I had been pretty experimental before him and find my role as the leader just so unsexy. It is the root of all our relationship problems. He also hates driving and i am the leader in just about every aspect of our lives. It hadn't been this way in my previous relationships.

We do have children, but i am the most fertile woman alive. The last time we had sex (very drunk no foreplay whatsoever) i conceived DC3 and i (so horribly) told him to go to a hooker and just get to know the basic biology.

Is this worth losing a marriage over as i am desperate for a physical connection with someone. Is there anyone else in a similar situation that is happy??

Good point cote d'azur - the OP needs to see him being respected by colleagues etc - that will make him more attractive..

Ionysis - Confidence, the OP says "Before we got married i was worried about our drastically tapering sex life but when i tried to discuss it with friends they dismissed it as 'it's what happens in long term relationships'" - The OP implies that she felt that it was normal for the sex to die down and that she was being unreasonable in her expecations.

I don't think you read my post properly. What I was referring to was BEFORE the "tapering". "Tapering" suggests a process of getting worse, but the question is - what was it like before that, as the very beginning?

The OP has said that the reason their sex life is so bad is that her DH is "inept" and doesn't know the "basic biology". These are not qualities that develop over time, are they? It's not like he was perfectly capable at first and knew the biology, but then mysteriously lost his ability and forgot it all. No - going by how she herself describes the problems with his lovemaking, he was clearly always crap. He just never learnt how to do it properly before she met him, for whatever reason.

So the questions stand. Why did she marry and have children with him, if he had never shown any sign that he knew how to make love properly? And having made her own free choice to do so, why does she think she's entitled to expect some quality now that he never had in the first place?

I think it is because he is not a whole person in her eyes; merely an object that provides her with the things that she wants at various different times.
She wanted a sweet, kind, man (the money aspect is debatable, but I know what I think) so she got it.
Now she wants a dominant man and is miffed that it is not him.

Nothing is her fault. He is crap in bed and has always been this way. Where is the sense of responsibility on her part? Where is the 'my fault for marrying him'? Marriage is supposed to be teamwork-where is her offer to help her husband?

(Sorry, but the accusations of 'patriarchal' stuff are nonsense on this thread).

She seems him as being an object to use. Sorry, but this thread really does highlight how differently women treat other women to men. A man would be really slagged off here.
The sense of entitlement, the unwillingless to take blame for the situation, the objectification of another person who exists to meet the needs of their partner.

I wonder if these descriptions ring any bells.

Hang on, the OP has said she tried to leave him but her persuaded her to come back.

He has a mind of his own persumably - she has not chained him to the marriage.

The financial thing is all a red herring - the OP earns her own money in any case. Presumably, her partner would be seen as a good catch by other women some of whom, by the way, consider a high earning partner as an asset in a marriage (just saying!)

If the OP is as horrible as some of you are claiming, then why would her husband want to stay with her?

I think there are literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people in marriages and/or long term relationships (especially, but not exclusively where children are involved) who stay in the relationship for the types of reasons that the OP describes.

For security, for convenience, for economy, for the children, because they can't be bothered with the hassle of a divorce, because their parents would be upset, because their friends would disapprove, because where would the cat go, because they may end up with someone else who is even worse, because they may regret the decision to split up, because they do not want to admit to a 'failed' marriage and so on and so forth.

Not saying any of the reasons are NECESSARILY good reasons to stay - then again they are probably GOOD ENOUGH reasons not to leave.

And yes, many of those people are probably secretly fantasising about shagging the milkman (or whoever). Heck, some of them probably ARE shagging the milkman.

So, to answer your question OP, yes there are countless people out there who are staying in relationships when they are not necessarily madly in love, or madly in lust, or even madly in like. How do I know? Because I speak to my friends, because I read these kind of boards, because, realistically, if you think about it, most people are going to struggle to be in a 'perfect' monogamous relationship for 50+ years. That's just being honest.

I am one of them - I get on with my partner fantastically, he is a great father, but I have never really lusted madly for him. As others have pointed out those kind of alpha male types who are dominant with a lot of sex appeal tend not to make such good husbands/fathers (having had one as a father myself I can vouch for that).

Fair enough about never lusting after your partner, tadpoles, but you don't blame him for it, do you? You don't tell him to visit a prostitute or resent him for not meeting your standards.

There is nothing wrong with being pragmatic and accepting that dominant males do not make good husbands.

But to marry somebody knowing you're not that into them sexually then resenting them hugely for not meeting your standards and telling them to visit a prostitute; well that suggests somebody who views their partner as an object or pet and gets angry when their partner doesn't do what they wish on demand.

Accepting that your partner is a whole person and it is not their fault you are sexually incompatible is fair enough, blaming them for it is another thing altogether.

You seem to have accepted sexual incompatibility. Fair enough, but as a reasonable person (that you seem to be here) you would accept that if things were to improve, it would have to be a team effort and not just the fault of your dh?

Tadpoles. I really appreciate your post, that is precisely what i was wondering.

Wamster, i do read what you write but since it is so vitriolic and hangs two sentences, extrapolating very scarce data to a bizarre nth degree.

One is i am financially independent and would be far from poor.

I ONCE said that to my husband, in a fit of very drunken frustration that yet again, he had, without any foreplay had an orgasm and yet again i hadn't and he hadn't even made an attempt to help. I regretted it and still think it's the worse thing that i've ever said to another human being.

In RL i am very careful not to disparage him as i would hate for others to know how i see him. I also don't want an alpha male (my dad is one and that's one reason i looked for someone not like him). However, i would like a man who has a little bit more oomph. Can we not look at our relationships and see both our failings. One of ine is definitely, as time has gone on just taking more and more control over our life. Especially with the children. The main one is not taking ownership of my actions, as someone rightly pointed out up thread.

If we didn't have kids i would be gone but we do and i don't want to regret leaving him for some castle in the sky fantasy. Fear keeps me here and i believe he knows that. He didn't care because he used to still love me but now i'm not so sure. We're in a bad patch. When we're not we do have the same sense of humour and very similar values. We didn't get together for no reason whatsoever we were attracted to each other for a myriad of reasons. I never foresaw that we'd marry and he used to joke that he got me by stealth.

Anyway, i've made my bed and need to work on making it comfy.

As an aside, he constantly tries to sabotage my work as he doesn't like me having my own cash as it means i'm independent again. He will have last minute meetings, accidentally cancel child care etc when i have to work, so i'm very vauge when i have contract details. It's a bit of a mess really but i've booked in with a counsellor next Monday. I haven't told him yet but will do.

"As an aside, he constantly tries to sabotage my work as he doesn't like me having my own cash as it means i'm independent again. He will have last minute meetings, accidentally cancel child care etc when i have to work, so i'm very vauge when i have contract details."

Jesus Christ. No matter what the situation is between you this is NOT OKAY. Never! This shouldn't be an aside, StrugglingSlightly, this should be front and centre on what is wrong with your relationship alongside all of the other main problems. This is a manipulative, scummy thing to do and it sounds like you've gotten so used to it that it doesn't seem as big a deal as it should. It sounds like he knows you aren't happy and is trying to keep you reliant on him so you can't be independent. That's wrong. And the bit where he jokes he got you by stealth, whilst said humorously, seems to indicate that views the relationship in an insecure way. Maybe that's why he wants you to not have too much of your own money.

Oh god... here we go again. Now everyone here will start raving about him abusing you OP rather than the other way round...

Sounds to me like he is insecure - probably because he knows you aren't happy.

I'm glad you are going to see a counsellor, I'm sure that will help you get your thoughts straight.

struggling

I think you have been treated very harshly here .
Some people seem very jealous of the fact you have a comfortable life and almost seem to suggest you out up and shut up, as your DH is a good provider. That is a summary of how I read some posts.

All you have done is be very honest in the same way as 100s of posters here- they have aloving DH, a good life in many ways, but the sexual side has gone.
Why that stirs up the nest of vipers, I don't know.

A few things come to mind: you want your DH to be assertive, and also better in bed. But how assertive are you? Do you know what assertive means? it means asking for what you want in a no-aggressive and non confrontational way.

So....if he does not know how to please you sexually, have you ever told him what works for you? if not, you are equally to blame for the lack of satisfaction in bed.

On the other hand, if the spark is not there, no matter whether he was able to work though every page of the Karma Sutra twice, you would still not fancy him and be satisfied.

I think your problem is working out which it is. yes?

At the same time, there are traits to his personality which you find unattractive. These seem to amount to his being a beta rather than alpha male. They are though also the traits that make him a kind, gentle and loving father.

I haven't got any answers but you do need to think about:

Can you improve your sex life?
Has the spark gone for good?
Has the spark gone because of his passivity /behaviour and if he could change this alittle, would you find him more attractive?

what do you think?

If he is trying to sabotage your work, then you both sound as bad as each other, I'll admit that. But why drop that nugget of information 5 pages in?

A man who tries to sabotage your work doesn't sound sweet, kind or gentle to me. So I feel that you-unintentionally perhaps- have misled people a bit here. It sounds as if you're both trapped in a highly dysfunctional relationship- 6 of you, half a dozen of him.
So, really, then the advice to leave still seems a sound one-for both your sakes. This is not judgemental-just seems to be the right thing to do in the circumstances.

Struggling, I'm in your corner on this. Sounds to me as if your other half is doing his best to be in control, he wants to sit back and let you do the work that he doesnt want to do.
Being inept at sex can be similar to being inept at housework you dont have to be a genius to know that women need some foreplay, just as it doesnt take a genius to do the housework.
I think he doesnt try to do anything for you because he's just not bothered and considers it not his problem

I only mentioned the work as he did it again yesterday. He is a nice man and a very caring man. He's just scared as i think he believes the money would keep the family together. I wouldn't leave him over that, it just annoys me.

Thanks to all that replied.

Have you ever considered that he feels emasculated in your relationship?

Okay, you are the leader, but he may not like this deep down- simply unable to make behaviour changes.

Having some control over you via your work seems blindingly obvious as a strategy for a man who feels inept in bed and powerless in the relationship overall.

This is not to say he is not dysfunctional- no, but it does seem to me a very obvious connection.

I put a lot of time and thought into my previous reply- appreciate knowing what you thought of the final 3 sugesitons.

BTW, if you cannot see that sabotaging your work is a very controlling and premiditated type of action, and one that is of major significance, then I think you ought to take off your rose coloured specs. it is a huge red flag re. the power struggle in your marriage and you ought to give it due consideration.

My mother was in a sexless marriage my whole childhood and they seperated when I was a young adult. Beleive me I would have rather she had left him much earlier and I had have "had to have parents living in seperate houses" (beleive me, there are worse things for children to cope with) than know now that I was the reason she was miserable for 20 years...

It does sound a bit rubbish all round.

Wamster you appear to have gone into frothing mode for no reason.

Sorry amelia - i've been taken aback abit by all the replies!

I'm not sure about the sex which is why i'm going to go to the counsellor to try to work out if i have intimacy issues etc Also, will then try and get a strategy on how to tackle DH. I will try and do something before just leaving.

For those who recommended seeing him with his work colleagues. I have done that too but i was already proud of his achievements at work. We have to entertain alot for his work and his colleagues are OK. We're very good friends with two couples as the wives got on really well and we all live relatively closely. The men don't do much together without us, but most probably because of time/ family commitments. He is liked by his colleagues.

Is it really old fashioned to stay together for the kids? Is there a better age to leave? Scotchmeg, i'm amazed your parents lasted that long. Are they still friends?

I have sent you a PM.

I've PM'd you.

Can I throw a spanner in?

Some of this, not all, stems from unsatisfactory sex life. All women 'tick' differently - have you ever shown him what makes you tick in bed? you don't have to write him a manual, but a gentle bit of hand shifting and some liberal praise (along the lines of: thats nice, I like that, more of the other) usually gets them doing what you like (profuse apologies to all men reading that I have just made you all sound like dogs that need training!!!)

Sex isn't the be-all-end-all but it certainly helps.

If you haven't got that level of, ummm communication, then the rest of your relationship isn't going to be that good either.

troisgarcons, his hands haven't been in my knickers for a very long time. I don't know how we'd introduce it. We don't even kiss each other on the lips to say hello or goodbye!

Wamster - "You seem to have accepted sexual incompatibility." No - I have never MADLY lusted after him. eg: in the past I have had boyfriends who I was 'in lust' with - but nothing else. In mad lust is just one aspect of a relationship and often doesn't last anyway.

In my opinion, you seldom, if ever, get 'in lust/in love/in like' and all the other things all wrapped into one package for an entire life time.

Bloody hell, I know I can't offer that package, so how could I expect anyone else to? What you want changes, relationships change, people change.

Also, have you actually tried being in a monogamous relationship and bringing up children for 20+ years? I think you are being a bit unrealistic here about what is actually happening in the average long term relationship - I don't think many people are swinging off the chandeliers every night.

Having said that, it sounds that there has never really been any proper sexual chemistry for you and your husband OP? If it was never there in the first place, then I am not sure you can ever get it. Also, you have not been together THAT long. So, I guess it boils down how much you are prepared to forgo your own need for sexual compatibility as opposed to your desire to keep your family unit together.

If you read these boards you will see this is an incredibly familiar theme - albeit the circumstances differ slightly. The counselling sounds like a really good idea.

Also - if he is as selfish in bed as the OP claims, then he is showing a lack of consideration. Perhaps it is no wonder that she lost her temper.