Relationship totally broken since baby 11 months ago- LONG, sorry.

[misskalse]

Hi
I am completely new to this whole forum thing but I need some advice.

I gave birth to my first baby 11 months ago and for the first 3 weeks or so my partner was great, helping out etc with cooking and cleaning etc whilst I breastfed our baby and tried to get over a 32 labour. Feeling extremely tired and hormonal and sore and dealing with a baby who cried all of the time I asked my partner to sleep in the spare room as it seemed silly for us both to be tired (and also, whilst I was pregnant, I read an article in The Times written by a new dad saying it was a good idea to sleep in separate rooms for awhile so that way one person is not exhausted and can do chores etc). So partner went into the other room and I could concentrate on feeding the baby in the night without wanting to punch my partner for either being sleep next to me or ending up niggling in the middle of the night.

10 months later and we are still in separate rooms and barely talk. Basically since he has been in the spare room he has totally given up helping me in any way. He has his own business and was working from home for 8 months (I asked him to get an office as it's not healthy for a relationship to be in eachothers pockets night and day). I became so fed up with him being at home day and night (he has no social life so never goes out) that I said if he didn't get an office then I would have to leave. During those early months I was exhausted and hormonal and very moody with him for not helping so turned into a bit of cow.

To cut a long story short, I have basically spent the last 11 months looking after the baby single handedly AND cooking, cleaning, washing, food shopping, with no help from him and I am SO resentful towards him that I can barely be in the same room as him. Before I had the baby he would cook far more often then me, he was super clean (he has mild OCD) but since the baby has been born he has stopped all that. I asked him if he was punishing me for him being in the spare room and he said yes. On top of this since having a baby I have been diagnosed with an overactive thyroid which has made me extrememly tired

I have tried many times to talk to him about why he does nothing etc...I have tried in a calm way and also in a frustrated horrible angry way...both get the same response. He says (nastily) that as he goes to work that he shouldn't have to work and do things around the house. All he goes on about his how hard he works, how tired he is, why the hell should he have to work and do everything in the house (all I have asked is for washing up to be done)......

As I am not working ( I used to temp but then fell pregnant), he gives me money for the food shopping each month and £40 per week for me to spend on myself (coffee with other mums etc). Last month we realised we could get child tax credit. That money goes to me and he hates that. thinks it should go to him for the mortgage and bills. I have explained that it is for the baby. He now says that from next month he is going to stop giving me money for myself. Therefore the money I get for the baby is the money for me. Now surely this is wrong. I cook, clean, wash, look after the baby and he is going to give me nothing? I don't want to take money that is meant for my baby to use for myself.

I am 38 years old, have been with my partner for 5 years (but broken up many times) and feel utterly utterly trapped and confused and have never felt so resentful in my life. I had a wonderful childhood and come from a very happy middle class family and I want that for my daughter. But, I cannot continue being this unhappy in what is effectively no longer a relationship. Just two people with a baby who barely speak. I am so scared of the future for my beautiful daughter as I can't get a job at the moment as I am looking after her and I don't want to be a single mother on benefits. I want to be able to provide for her. I know for my own happiness I should leave as I just don't love him anymore due to so much resentment and all the hurtful things that have been said.... but I don't want to hurt my partner by taking his daughter away from him (although I would hope he would be an active father if we were to split) and I don't want to hurt my daughter.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any other stay at home mums who could let me know what they are expected to do, if their partners help, if their partners give them money for themselves etc? All my friends with babies have good careers etc so I don't know what is normal. But this just doesn't feel normal to me.

Thanks so much

ScreamingBohemian - I don' think it was wrong to ask him to get an office either, I know it meant extra money, but it's just not healthy. It has all gone wrong since he has been working from home. We had nothing to say to each other, he was there all of the time. It's not healthy. Everyone else I know understood it, except him. He said I bullied him out as in the end, after trying to talk to him about it many times, I gave him an ultimatum, saying I would have to leave if things didn't improve and part of that was him getting an office, hoping we could get back to a bit of normaility, to have things to talk about, to look forward to seeing eachother etc....it hasn't helped!

Having read all this I really feel for you, I really don't know what's going through his mind to be like this with you. Maybe he thinks you won't leave him now you have dd. You need to get some confidence from somewhere and decide what you really want. Don't stay with him for dd's sake she won't thank you for it and I'm sure you would be fine on your own. He sounds like an idiot. You sound lovely by the way and have put up with far more than I would have. When he comes home tell him your going for a walk for a change. Perhaps show him this thread?

Mr Gin - thanks for those positive words. I have heard that things can work if you are both supportive and amicable (which we would be for sure, he has his issues, as we all do, but honestly, he is a decent guy).

Attilla - yep, I agree, he had a really shitty childhood and he hasn't really addressed it and it has made him who he is today.He is a kind, hard working, sensitive, moral man....but somewhere we just clash LOTS! I remember why I loved him, I do. It's just I also remember all the things my instincts have always warned me about,

Passive agrressive - for sure! He doesn't realise it though.

Fingers crossed he will agree to counselling. I really hope so. I want to know in my own mind that I have given it my best shot.

My Mum has suggested that I ask him to come back in the room, see if we can salvage something. I think that is probably what I should do. I don't want to sleep with him, we have no intimacy left (prob my fault!), but who knows, I can but only ask him and try, see how he feels.

Mumbling and Rag Doll - He controlls the finances as it is is his flat, mortgage etc and he is the one that works. Perhaps you are right, I should know more but I guess as it's his money I feel it's not my business as such. Wrong maybe? Perhaps I should suggest a joint account and see what he says? I know he is deeply pissed off that the Child Tax Credit goes to me

Thanks everyone. That has really really helped me. I will update you.
x

Hi misskalse,

re your comment:-
"I am 38 years old, have been with my partner for 5 years (but broken up many times)".

That was a massive warning sign in itself even before you both conceived this child, do you not think so now?. You've been clashing for a long time; you are both fundamentally not on the same page here and personally speaking I don't think you should be together at all, particularly now. I have a nasty feeling that you thought that you could be the one to rescue and or save him from himself - is that so?. Give him the stable family life that he never had?.

He did indeed have a crappy childhood but many people have and they all don't act like your man does towards you now. History in his case is repeating itself with him now playing the role that his Dad had in all that dysfunction.

You also wrote earlier that you would not be together if it was not for the baby. That speaks volumes.

Re the property is the mortgage in his sole name, are you not named on the mortgage or title deeds?. I ask that because of what you wrote in your most recent post (you made a reference to his flat). If this is the case you truly walked into this with your eyes wide shut.

"I remember why I loved him, I do. It's just I also remember all the things my instincts have always warned me about"

I note you used the past tense in your first sentence.

And with regards to your second sentence you seemingly ignored your own instincts:(.

misskalse, i am impressed of the way you responded to criticism i agree with the poster who said that you sound very rational.

I usually dont expect the working parent to go home and start cleaning the bathroom on a workday but i noticed on your last post that you always do the bathing. When i was a SAHM my dh was actually desperate to do bath-bed as he had missed the dcs all day. Maybe your dh could do that at least every second day?

Regarding his parents - bullshit, i hate this excuse. Everything was different 30 yrs ago, not just chores devision and many people of our generation were brought up in similar set up but have different set-up themselves. Does he drive with no seat belt, does he give whiskey to the baby, does he leave the pram in the street? No. Past is past.

Finally, i know your question is about your relationship but on practical level i 've noticed you cook and wash every night. Thats waste of time and energy imo. Cook big quanities of casseroles and fill the freezer, also have some jacked potato or omellete nights or tapas/dips/cold meats night. And definetely buy a dishwasher.

I don't think you should invite him back into the bedroom. That's basically rewarding him for his unreasonable treatment of you.

If he agrees to counseling and things improve, and you are feeling closer to him, then it makes sense.

You have every right to have a joint account even though you are not working. Or rather -- even though you are not getting paid for working, because obviously you are working, taking care of your child and the house.

Vincent Duggleby told me that he always always advises against couples having a joint account. Just saying.

The HUGE alarm bell for me is the fact that he is not going to give you any of YOUR money. What a twat. Control freak. Financial abuse is awful.

I am surprised to read a post saying don't reward him with allowing him back into the bedroom. It is not OP's bedroom, it is their bedroom. Things seem to have gone very wrong since DH asked to leave the bedroom and then the home. Depsite it being for all the right reasons. DH feels massively rejected. Something has to give, it can be their relationship, if OP chooses, or it can be the control OP has over where DH is allowed to be in his own home. He was told to get out or OP would leave him - that is not a message of love and compassion.

I think this is all about perception - his is totally skewed. Could you just forgive him for being emotionally unavailable and unsupportive? Draw a line under it now - say we both did wrong and we need to find a way to be there for each other in a different way now we are a family.

I think there is a lot to be said for saying 'WE fucked this up, WE made mistakes, WE need to let this go'. If his stance is relate or dead, he needs to see it is relate or a dead relationship. Relate will help you both find a way past this bog you're stuck in. Which is ultimatley the ideal for your family from what you seem to want in your posts.

Who is Vincent Duggleby?

DoMeDon, I hear what you're saying, but I think in this case it's the DH who's being far more unreasonable and causing the problems.

The OP was not unreasonable to ask him to sleep in the spare room to start -- it was for a practical reason, to get more sleep. He responded to this in an utterly childish and passive-agressive manner instead of just talking about it. Yes, the OP then got upset, but who wouldn't get upset with a DH who stopped helping out at all with a newborn? And wouldn't talk about it? And refused counseling?

I think to say, oh it's okay, let's sleep together again, is basically showing him that his strategy worked, that if he sulks and pouts enough he will get what he want.

The OP initially asked him to sleep elsewhere for practical reasons, he is still in the spare room now because he's been a total brat about the whole thing.

Poor both of you.
You say you barely talk: can you get a babysitter andngo out and try to talk?
Family member?
Can you bear to make a neutral space and say how you need him, how you wish it was better, how you know he works hard out of the home and how you want him to be happier and you to be happier in the home? That the baby stage is not forever and there are things he can do to be part of that stage ( be specific rather than accusatory ) and see if he makes any small steps towards you both? I realise it is a big ask but you will have tried and been as graceful as possible...

Do me Don - you are exactly right about the "WE fucked up".....he said to me the other night "you created this" and I said "no, WE both created it".

I think your advice is very good. I have asked to talk to him, he said after the weekend we will talk (as I am away)...so I will say how I feel we have both made mistakes etc and see where we go from there. However, I have previously apologised to him over the course of this year for being horrible or moody, I can say sorry, alas ,he can't. And that's a big stumbling block. Both parties have to understand their part in things when they go wrong, not just one. It takes two people to react, two different percpetions as you say.

And yes it has gone very wrong since we had separate beds. However, just to clarify, I did not ask him to leave the home. I asked him to get an office. A home should be a home surely, not an office space? He still works here in the evenings and the mornings. I get up and feed the baby and he sits in his room where he sleeps on his computer working, gives the baby a kiss hello, makes himself a drink and not me (until I pointed this out to him) then goes "oh, I've just got to check some emails " etc....

He is totally obsessed by work. THAT, more then spare rooms has ruined it. Like someone on here pointed out, he is acting like a non-parent. He has not changed his life at all since the baby has come, he just works more and more and more. Now, he would say that is because he's started a new business and building it up (yes, I understand)....but.....what about his new daughter? What about family time? Where is the balance. I asked him ages ago wqhen he was working from home to try and agree to some "office hours" - say 9am - 6.30pm....but it didn't really happen. Now he goes into the office at around 10am (but works in his room before then) then comes back to say good night to baby at 6.30. Then usually works in the evening for awhile or goes for a walk, then he works all weekend too.

So, I ask you, where is the family time? Where is the time he should be spending with us? I became so resentful early on as it seemed like he wasn't really interested in the baby much, I know he adores her...but, he hasn't given us much time. He has said that is because I've been horrible.

BUT, I wouldn't have been moody and resentful if he'd been a hands on dad instead of just working and being in his own little bubble.

Vicious circle.

Before we had a baby he was all talk of how he'd take her out in a baby carrier at the weekends at 7am to Starbucks like we had seen lots of other dads do...said I could have a lie in.....we had the talks before having a baby and it all sounded like it should be. How he'd get home to bath her etc.

Has any of this happened really? No.

So I know that some of you think that he feels rejected due to sleeping in another room. But he has rejected family life surely? If hadn't been sulking and working then he would've been more part of it, I wouldn't have been so moody therefore he would maybe help out more etc etc....it's all so bloody obvious to me.

It seems on paper so simple to make better yet, he can be very selfish, and thinks that as he works and has his own business he is the one who should get all the support, he is the one who works the hardest etc...surely we should be supporting eachother?

Arrgh, excuse my rant!!!

And thank you screaming bohemian for seeing that actually I didn't just kick him out of the room, it was purely for practical reasons at the start. Baby didn't sleep much, would often only get to sleep lying on the bed next to me holding my hand, or in the first few weeks, lying on my chest with me sleeping upright in the night!

It was for practical reasons yet, he ended up not really communicating, although he said once he felt left out, and I explained it was better until she started sleeping better. From then on he just started punishing me by not helping out, working all of the time etc.

God, I wish I could print out this entire thread and give it to him.:)

Also, he said recently he doesn't want to come back in the bedroom.

I won't bang on anymore as I've said all I can. I think that you are taking responsibility for your (lesser) part in all this and I hope that your DH manages to find the maturity to do the same.

BTW- I feel for you OP I really do. I went through a similar experience, it nearly broke us, twice. We have found a new way to be there for each other and I hope you can too. You are doing a marvellous job - keeping you, your home and your DD going.

Thank you so much DeMe Don.
And thank you everyone for your messages. My god, I never realised how much it can help. Thank you xx

Very good post from DoMeDon

misskalse, tbh i would too be 'obsessed' with work if i had a new baby and a wife who wants 2 bedrooms, £40pw 'for coffees with other mums', an office etc. He is sole earner with a new family and a new bussiness in the recession, are you surprised that he is stressed?

I know you mean well and you want the perfect family but you seem to want the 'media perfect family', you are talking about Times article, dads in Starbucks with baby in carier etc. Are you one of those people who create in their mind an 'ideal life', 'ideal family', and then they get frustrated if they don't have picnics every weekend, coffees in Sturbucks etc? Are you in an area perhaps that people live like this?

You are right about the support and communication, you should have that. But perhaps you could relax a bit about other things.

Re the bussiness: It is not 'his', it is the family's bussiness that he runs while you look after the baby. You should be a team. You seem to have seperate lives aswell as beds and seperate targets/dreams/plans.

Laquitar, just to clarify, the £40 per week he gives me is not "for coffees with other mums"...it's for everything, from petrol, to shampoo, to coffee, to bus money, to whatever I have to pay for that isn't food shopping (lots of it has gone on baby tbh). To get my haircut I used money out of my savings.

Yes, I understand that he is stressed with work, of course, it's a big responsibility to earn the money when he is doing it all himself. Of course, I get that. But as I have previously said, work can't be the be all and end all of everything and it is for him. He chooses to have no time off. He could've spared some hours in the day at the weekends to be with baby etc. He chose not to because is punishing me for him going in the other room (which, as previously stated, was for practical reasons). He himself has admitted this.

I do not expect the perfect media family . But I do expect a partner who wants to spend time with his baby daughter, who understands that having your first child is a huge deal for a woman, totally exhausting, full of hormones,breastfeeding being a very tiring thing in itself, surviving on around 3 hours sleep a night for months etc etc, add to that being ill with overactive thyroid. Every new mother feels this...but hopefully they have partners who have normal working hours, and don't expect stay at home mum to do everything all of the time with no break at all...someone who says "I go out to work therefore I don't have to do anything to help in the house".

I know our situation is very different as when you have your own business you cannot switch off from it. I do understand that. But, you have to have a bit of discipline and try and strike a bit of a balance.

Yes, we have separate everything, you are right.

Point taken though. Thanks

I'm glad for the challengers on this site. It really makes you think. Thanks

Oh i thought the £40 was for coffees because you mentioned something like 'coffees with other mums'. Apologies then.

OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Just a word of warning about Whatsyourexcuse's advice. This is what XH and I tried when we started having problems when our DS was 5 months old. I thought, 'oh, the first year of being new parents is bound to be hard, we just need to stick together and be kind to one another and we'll get through it'. I still think there's a lot of merit in that, but it does depend on how strong the relationship was to start with.

I worked so hard at focussing on the positive things about XH. But that didn't address the underlying resentments from years before, or the fact that becoming parents had changed us both in different ways and we no longer loved or respected each other. When DS was about 18 months I had an anxiety attack after a really mild disagreement between me and XH. I realised that we'd been 'pretending' that our relationship was fine for so long, we no longer had any relationship left at all. Communication between us had just completely broken down.

We separated a couple of months ago, and I can honestly say that after all the gut wrenching soul searching I went through while we were 'working on it', I haven't had a moment of anxiety since we split. I feel less 'lonely' living alone than I ever did when we were 'together'. After all my grief at losing my vision of DS's 'happy family', I've realised it never really existed. Although it won't look the way I thought it was going to, he'll have a much happier family with XH and I apart than he would have done growing up with parents who don't like each other.

By all means try everything you can - be kind to one another, go for counselling, communicate by whatever means you can. But when you know there's nothing left to try, things can still get better.

Rushybay, thanks so much for your reply. The way I feel about my relationship sounds very very much like what happened with you.
OUr relationship had many problems before the baby, underlying ones, just as yours, and they never get addressed as he won't do it. I have tried and tried to get him to address them. I feel desperately sad for our baby.

Virtually everything you have written is how I feel.

Thank you for your positive message that things can be ok after a split. And good to hear that things are getting better for you and you feel happier.

Misskalse,
Having read your further responses and more info on your situation there is no doubt that the way he has handled things is completely wrong. You have been very forthcoming in acknowledging your contribution to the situation you now find yourselves in but he has equal blame to bear in the way he managed his issues. He could have come to you and explained how he felt, tried to change things, make positive steps... instead he has simply removed himself emotionally and often physically from your and your daughter's life.

I do understand how he must have felt initially and sympathise with him but it sounds like he allowed his resentment to solidify to the point where he is unwilling or unable to even try to break it down - he has to own that.

I have to say also, despite how common it is for men to be "off" about sex when their wife is pregnant I too would have been incredibly hurt and angry at having my needs completely ignored for 8 months. My H isn't that thrilled about sex with the "bump" but he does make an effort for ME and to maintain the closeness and intimacy in the relationship.

I suppose at this point the big question is can BOTH of you get past the understandable resentment each of you feel towards the other, move past the "who is more to blame" reaction, acknowledge both of you had a part to play and move on? Its SO hard to "forgive and forget" much as it is drummed into us that we should be able to. Unless you can both REALLY see the others POV and agree to let it go it will fester under any surface reconciliation and be constantly brought up in arguments for years to come.

It is SUCH a shame that he refuses to go to counselling as I think it would be so helpful to you both in seeing each others hurt and just annoyances and making up to each other for what has gone on.

It sounds though, I'm very sorry to say, that he isn't willing to make the steps towards you that you have made towards him so far.

You say he SAYS he doesn't want to move back into the bedroom, but he might just be saying that to hurt you or to try to pretend he doesn't care. In your position, if I really wanted to mend the relationship I'd TRY to swallow my anger (again) and suggest he moves back into your bed and be the bigger person in trying to begin a rapprochement. I know you have said you have tried before and he hasn't met you in the middle though so you may have already made up your mind that you're done making the effort. That's a call only you can make though.

Good luck with everything, I am sure whatever happens you will work through things and be fine.