Relationship totally broken since baby 11 months ago- LONG, sorry.

[misskalse]

Hi
I am completely new to this whole forum thing but I need some advice.

I gave birth to my first baby 11 months ago and for the first 3 weeks or so my partner was great, helping out etc with cooking and cleaning etc whilst I breastfed our baby and tried to get over a 32 labour. Feeling extremely tired and hormonal and sore and dealing with a baby who cried all of the time I asked my partner to sleep in the spare room as it seemed silly for us both to be tired (and also, whilst I was pregnant, I read an article in The Times written by a new dad saying it was a good idea to sleep in separate rooms for awhile so that way one person is not exhausted and can do chores etc). So partner went into the other room and I could concentrate on feeding the baby in the night without wanting to punch my partner for either being sleep next to me or ending up niggling in the middle of the night.

10 months later and we are still in separate rooms and barely talk. Basically since he has been in the spare room he has totally given up helping me in any way. He has his own business and was working from home for 8 months (I asked him to get an office as it's not healthy for a relationship to be in eachothers pockets night and day). I became so fed up with him being at home day and night (he has no social life so never goes out) that I said if he didn't get an office then I would have to leave. During those early months I was exhausted and hormonal and very moody with him for not helping so turned into a bit of cow.

To cut a long story short, I have basically spent the last 11 months looking after the baby single handedly AND cooking, cleaning, washing, food shopping, with no help from him and I am SO resentful towards him that I can barely be in the same room as him. Before I had the baby he would cook far more often then me, he was super clean (he has mild OCD) but since the baby has been born he has stopped all that. I asked him if he was punishing me for him being in the spare room and he said yes. On top of this since having a baby I have been diagnosed with an overactive thyroid which has made me extrememly tired

I have tried many times to talk to him about why he does nothing etc...I have tried in a calm way and also in a frustrated horrible angry way...both get the same response. He says (nastily) that as he goes to work that he shouldn't have to work and do things around the house. All he goes on about his how hard he works, how tired he is, why the hell should he have to work and do everything in the house (all I have asked is for washing up to be done)......

As I am not working ( I used to temp but then fell pregnant), he gives me money for the food shopping each month and £40 per week for me to spend on myself (coffee with other mums etc). Last month we realised we could get child tax credit. That money goes to me and he hates that. thinks it should go to him for the mortgage and bills. I have explained that it is for the baby. He now says that from next month he is going to stop giving me money for myself. Therefore the money I get for the baby is the money for me. Now surely this is wrong. I cook, clean, wash, look after the baby and he is going to give me nothing? I don't want to take money that is meant for my baby to use for myself.

I am 38 years old, have been with my partner for 5 years (but broken up many times) and feel utterly utterly trapped and confused and have never felt so resentful in my life. I had a wonderful childhood and come from a very happy middle class family and I want that for my daughter. But, I cannot continue being this unhappy in what is effectively no longer a relationship. Just two people with a baby who barely speak. I am so scared of the future for my beautiful daughter as I can't get a job at the moment as I am looking after her and I don't want to be a single mother on benefits. I want to be able to provide for her. I know for my own happiness I should leave as I just don't love him anymore due to so much resentment and all the hurtful things that have been said.... but I don't want to hurt my partner by taking his daughter away from him (although I would hope he would be an active father if we were to split) and I don't want to hurt my daughter.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any other stay at home mums who could let me know what they are expected to do, if their partners help, if their partners give them money for themselves etc? All my friends with babies have good careers etc so I don't know what is normal. But this just doesn't feel normal to me.

Thanks so much

oh yes, missed that bit

"ionysis" - thanks for your reply and for seeing his point of view. I do see his point of yes. I have pushed him out, not consciously at first, but the resentment got too much. I used to ask him to come out with us for walks etc but he just works all of the time, I mean, every day,every evening, every weekend etc. It's like his missed out on her first year.

However, he does seem to find time to go for a walk most evenings for an hour. He comes back from work, plays with baby for 15 mins before I bath her then feed her, then he goes out for a walk for an hour around 7pm leaving me to do tea etc. So he gets his own time.

I applied for a Saturday job recently to get me out of the house, and to get a bit of money for myself so he didn't have to give me money and although he was fine about it his reaction also was "I'd rather give you the money as it'll be awkward as I need to work most weekends and what about the days when I play golf"........

I don't know. Maybe I'm just being selfish. Maybe I'm supposed to just cook, clean, look after baby, do the food shopping, have no money, have no time to myself and not complain about it. (for the record, he must have taken the baby out on her own about 5 times over the last 11 months and when he has done I have used that time to vaccuum etc).

Maybe this is how it is for everyone.

And no, we have not had sex since March 2010, a month after baby was concieved. His choice, not mine. I spent the whole of my pregnancy masturbating as I thought about sex all of the time!!! He was one of those many men who felt it was weird to have sex when pregnant in case it hurt the baby. After the baby was born, and before things got as separate as they are now, I spoke to my health visitor about sex as I said to her I was scared about how it would feel after birth etc and how after 3 months the subject hadn't been brought up by either of us...she suggested I ask him how he felt about it, was he nervous etc....I said to him "when do you think we wil have sex again? I'm a bit nervous about it"...he said/joked "when we have another baby". I asked him if he was worried about doing it, he said no. That was it. I have had doctors/midwives/gynaes ask me if I've had sex yet....my gynae said "your partner must be a very patient man"....truth is, my partner is not interested, wasn't much before getting pregnant.

So you see, the resentment is more than just about chores and money for me.

We need counselling. But how do I get him to go if he won't?

PeppermintPumpkin - I have had many months to think about it which is why I sound together and measured! ha ha.... I'm not sure I'm too together really as I have cried every single day for the last 11 months! Still, there are people in a lot worse situations than me so I feel bad moaning about it. Some poor women have a lot worse men to deal with.

As you so rightly say, the issue is communication. Always has been. I am a very open person, he is not. He has always sulked, which I have since heard is common with men. Thing is, since I have been with him, I have started to not say how I feel anymore as everytime I say anything about being unhappy with things in the relationship he says "I'm bored of hearing it"...etc. So things don't get addressed.

We have tried to talk since the baby was born. It just ends up with us arguing or throwing insults. I tried to talk to him calmly only last week saying I felt it was unfair that he goes out in the evening for a walk (after I've bathed and breatfded the baby ) whilst asking me to put some food in the oven for him whilst he's out.....he just all defensive saying he'll do it himself then....I said that in the evening I am very tired and would appreciate some help and that I've been up half in the night, looking after the baby, the house etc...and he said "yeah, don't I know it, all you ever do is go on about it".....then he called me a nutcase and told me the baby would be his daughter whatever and walked off as I said "all I want to do is talk". I then think I may have had a panic attack - is that when you find it hard to breathe and go dizzy? I had so much stored up in my tummy that I tried cried and went dizzy and had to take very very deep breaths to try breathe normally.

Does anyone elses partner walk off or ignore them when they are crying?

Oh misskalse you sound so forlorn and hopeless. This is not how it is for everyone, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I suspect you couldn't feel less like "putting your foot down" but this would be the only way to "get" him to do something like counselling, and ultimatums don't always work well. It is so difficult when one party refuses to move forwards, or even try.

Where does he go on these walks? Every night? That does sound a bit strange. Mind you, you did say he generally doesn't go out much, so maybe that's understandable.

Peppermintpumpkin - Yes, I went to Relate when I was pregnant but they said it wasn't the right time, to come back after the baby was born. I am about to start some free women's only counselling suggested by my health visitor as I want things to work out as they should, whether that is to be together or apart. This is only for my daughters sake. If we didn't have a baby we wouldn't be together anymore.

My amazing Mum and Dad live only an hour away so I go and stay with them every few weeks, it gives me a bit of a break to be my old happier self again and also it gives partner 3 days to work all of the time without having us around.

I take it all back. With these new posts this whole thing is strange. He is not having sex with you and going for walks alone? Red flag. So sorry OP.

misskalse I kind of identify with your DP as I was in a not dissimilar situation.

The sex thing, well, it wasn't so much about hurting the baby, it just felt weird, my XP's body was changing, my head was filled with concerns about supporting them, sex in my mind had very much become about babies and not passion. Can't really describe it more than that.

What I do remember though was looking at my XP's 'baby and pregnancy' magazines. It was all ' How to have great sex when pregnant ' and ' best positions' etc. There was not one story, letter or article about what to do when you don't want to have sex or exploring why that might be from a male perspective. But I have subsequently found from talking to men about it that it's not that uncommon. And obviously there aren't any magazines for soon to be dad's and the issues they face.

My XP was of course gagging for sex and resented my not satisfying her. And for me it got worse after dd appeared as I saw first hand how much about sex was linked to babies iyswim. It became a vicious circle. Lack of affection from me, more resentment and criticism from her resulting in less affection from me etc etc etc.

The one thing, for me, that I though would have helped our relationship was to start sleeping together again. The few times we did things moved in a more positive way. But XP had kind of moved on by then.

But I've got to say that there was laziness there too. I work very hard, but in some aspects am lazy. A massage leading to sex, or sleep ? hmmmm. I choose sleep ! Bad choice. I think in my case ( I'm only talking about me in the hope it might shed light ) I was worried that I wasn't up to the task, confused by the baby / sex links and by the time I felt ready my XP had already separated from me in her mind.

Perhaps you need to make some time for just the two of you to get dressed up, go out and be you away from baby.

Yes, can you tell us a bit more about these walks? Although you did say he hasn't much of a social life etc. It is all a bit odd sounding. I'm sorry.

I think he just walks along the seafront and listens to his ipod with work stuff. I suggested ages ago when he was working from home that he went for a walk to get some exercise and to get some fresh air, thought it would be good for him to get away from working all of the time, same as I have suggested it previously when I have gone out with the baby. So I suppose in his defense he would say "but you said for me to go for walks".....that was before he stopped sharing in making tea etc. I didn't mind it then. But when he just goes out now saying "can you just shove something in the oven for me" ...it gets to me. I tried to make him see the other day how it is, but to no avail. Yes, we all need our own time to do things , but we have a baby now, we have to share the responsibilty at times surely?

I am absolutely not one of those women who thinks their partner shouldn't go out etc, as I think that is so wrong. Everyone should have the freedom to have their own space, their own interests etc, but there has to be a balance I feel.

Ah, Mr Gin. Thanks so much for a man's perspective. I guess men are expected to want sex all of the time etc but that's just not true is it. I think some men are more sensitive than us girls think. I know my partner doesn't want sex with me anymore, "why would i want sex with you when all you've been is moody and nasty to me all year"....he didn't want sex much before the baby, once a month and only if it was ovulation time. It was always an issue. When I brought it up last year he said "I don't have time to think about sex as too busy with work", said he didn' enjoy sex with me because he felt like everything he did was wrong etc

It is a horrible feeling as a woman to not be desired and wanted sexually by your man. It's horrible for anyone, man or woman, but perhaps it just feels worse for a woman as we are led to beleive that men always want sex, its' in their physical make up etc.......I have always had a very healthy and open attitude to sex, until I met my partner who is very closed about it.

God, my relatioships sounds so crap doesn't it!! ha ha

So Mr Gin, you partner left you, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you have found happiness with someone new.

"If we didn't have a baby we wouldn't be together anymore".

That to me anyway says it all.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Is the baby the only reason you are still together?. The baby cannot be the glue that binds this failing relationship.

I would certainly have counselling for your own self; the fact that he does not want counselling is also not good news for the long term future of this relationship. He left this relationship emotionally some while back.

missk this clearly can't go on for you, you'll go nuts! I think he is taking the piss, he is still living in the world of the non-parent. Things have changed, and he can't or won't adjust. The thing is, what are you prepared to do about it? I think it's very telling that you say you wouldn't be with him if it were not for the baby. What about going it alone? What's stopping you? What are you getting out of this realtionship now?

Remember as well that very soon your daughter will be sucking up lessons in life from you both (and probably already is). Your beautiful daughter deserves you (and him) at your very best, and maybe that would mean being apart?

oh x post Attila

You both sound very different, what attracted you to him in the first place?.

Did you think you could change him or even worse rescue him?

OP your partner is not behaving normally at all. Don't let him convince you that he's normal, or 'all men sulk' or 'men who work don't clean' or anything like that. He's being really unreasonable.

You were not in the wrong to ask him to sleep in the spare room the first few weeks. LOTS of people do this and you should not feel bad about this. If he started to feel rejected about it, he should have discussed it with you, not 'punished' you. That is so massively unreasonable I don't know where to start.

I think the only hope for your relationship is counseling. If he won't go to counseling, well, then there's no hope for your relationship. I'm sorry but that's pretty much what it comes down to.

Your DC is so young, she will not know or care if you're on benefits. You have plenty of time to get a new job sorted -- you may even someday find a lovely man and give her the kind of family you really want.

I should say I also don't think you were wrong to ask him to get an office. I worked at home when DH was a SAHD and it was a nightmare, it really rocked our relationship.

Is your partner older than you?

He is the ultimate in passive aggressive. It sounds absolutely awful. You say you have tried many times to talk to him but he just won't. What exactly does 'over my dead body' mean ffs?

Can you tell your inlaws/your own parents and all your friends what is going on? Where is your RL support to help you get some perspective on this selfish man's ill treatment of you?

You sound so level-headed, understanding and intelligent. He sounds a pathetic jealous knob. No wonder he has no friends.

Leave. You are 38. I am a single parent at 47 and ds is 3. Yes it's tough but it's a whole load better than being with a passive aggressive self-pitying cruel man who uses 'work' as an excuse to behave like a shit to his wife.

It sounds awful but it also sounds as though you've not been inolved in family budgetig at all....do you know what the incomings and outgoings are? Do you know how much is left over each month?

I was vague about cash with DH when I first had DD1... and I thought the tax credit should be for me to spend as I wanted....but when he went through the outgoings I saw we simply didn't have the money for me to go to soft play, cafe's, hairdressers on a regular basis AND stay at home.

I felt terrible that I had insisted on keeping all the cash...while my dH fretted.

Meerkat - I don't think either of us get anything from the relationship anymore. Too many things have been said to eachother to hurt. We have both said hurtful things through frustration. We are both to blame in different ways I'm sure.

That is why I want us to BOTH have counselling so we can get things out in the open to firstly see if we can salvage something or if not, then at least we will have tried to understand eachother as we are going to have to be in each others lives forever due to our beautiful baby and that has to be amicable. Also, I know from past experience, if you feel bitter towards someone it hurts both of you.

Peppermint Pumpkin - "he is living in the world of a non-parent"...yes, I totallyt agree, hence the resentment, resulting in moodiness and snappy comments from me over the last 11 months.

We both want our daughter to be happy. My partner grew up in a family where his dad was horrible, lots of arguments, lots of bad bad tension, no one saying how they really feel, all swept under the carpet etc and I know he has said that there is no way he wants our daughter to grow up like that.

I am wondering if he wants to split too but we just haven't quite got the balls to do it yet. I know he is unhappy too.

Regarding ultimatums....they are not a good thing ideally but sometimes action has to be taken. I was thinking of perhaps saying to hiim that if he won't consider coming to counselling with me then we would have to split up.

It's so so hard isn't it, here I am sitting with my gorgeous baby who has only recently come into this world and her future looks fucked already! (says me who had the wonderful Enid Blyton childhood). God, I was so lucky. I just want my daughter to have a normal happy life, which is why I'm so terrified of the future, if we are alone I will feel I've let her down (and hurt my partner by her not growing up with him in the house)...if I stay, then we'll all be unhappy.

Grr. Thank you so much everyone for listening. You have no idea how good it is to get other people's unbiased opinions, good and bad.

I totally agree Whats your excuse. People do throw away relationships too easily (not me, I hang on too long usually!).....there is a child involved and that is the most important person

Her future is in no way "fucked already". She has you for a start, and in that she's very fortunate. Take some control of it all though, this clearly can't go on, for her sake and yours.

misskalse I actually get on with my XP better now than when we were together. It went a bit pear shaped when we split and were trying to agree access, but we got over that, avoided any court nastiness and are pretty supportive to each other and dd of course.

DD is quite happy to spend time with me at my home and indeed benefits from having a home in the city ( mum ) and a home in the countryside ( me ) . And I love having her to myself and doing all the mundane stuff with her ( baths, food, nightime parenting etc ) as well as the fun stuff.

A broken family doesn't need to mean doom and gloom. It's not ideal and it's pretty helpful to get on with your XP , but as long as your child knows she's loved by mum and dad and feels secure, and you both do the right thing she'll flourish.

I really do think that it's 'counselling or we split' time. I bet you he will insist he is going nowhere though as it's 'his home' and 'his daughter'...ie he will say all that without trying to resolve anything. Just put his foot down and insist if anyone's going it's you. Or say he will fight for custody or go abroad.

From what you have told us it seems as though he is more than willing for this to be acrimonious. To finally shaft you somehow. I expect the root of his problem is that all along he has loathed your Enid Blyton childhood and nice middle-classness. And now he is faced with the huge responsibility of not repeating his own parenting patterns he is absolutely unable or unwilling to do so. Not with you anyway. Probably not with anyone tbh.

I do so feel for you.

How old is he? And I ask again, where is the input from your families on both sides? Do your parents know the situation?

If you are really not getting anything from the relationship then I would question why you are still there now.

Re this comment:-
"I just want my daughter to have a normal happy life, which is why I'm so terrified of the future, if we are alone I will feel I've let her down (and hurt my partner by her not growing up with him in the house)...if I stay, then we'll all be unhappy".

Who states you would be alone for the rest of your days, this is rot!.
It will hurt your DD long term to grow up within a home where the parents antipathy towards each other is apparant (particularly his antipathy towards you, he is certainly passive aggressive). You would not let her down if you were to choose to leave this man.

Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied.

Your man does not want counselling; he has told you as much already and you will not change his mind. Your partner was damaged by his own poor childhood; damage which he has clearly not addressed in any way and unsurprisingly this has spilled over into his present life now. History is repeating itself.