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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Are Men Sex Obsessed?

163 replies

Oldgumbiecat · 30/09/2011 15:32

Common experience tells us that most men certainly are. The unpalatable truth is that for men having sex is pretty much like going to the toilet: an urgent and immediate need that needs to be satisfied quickly, and with any woman who is ready and willing, or who can in turn gain something from it, imaginary or real. Men need to be possessed of real self control to remain monogamous: monogamy is not in the nature of your average man.

So why else do you suppose that the sex industry is in the ascendancy? And that?s to put it mildly. The sex industry generates billions for those smart enough to exploit it. All men are sex addicted to a greater or lesser degree. And anyone who thinks that women are not above taking advantage of them deludes her/himself.

This obsession combined with a tendency for so many men not to grow up emotionally beyond toddlerhood, though, can certainly result in legions of women getting a very raw deal indeed. Particularly when they are preoccupied with the responsibility of raising real children as well as an adult who never grew up. And men, too, are too often preoccupied with the notion that the grass is greener on the other side of the hill: the infatuation with the pretty girl with long legs at the office which they misconstrue as having found true love at last. Once again, it?s nothing more and nothing less than good old lust.

I do not include, of course, the many men who will squeal in protest when they read this, because of course you are all such good little boys really. And if you find these views offensive, then I regret that. But while they may not apply to you, I think it very probable that enough who read this won't readily deny the truth.
OP posts:
YankNCock · 30/09/2011 21:21

Hully speaks the truth. Just this evening there was a hard-on shoved through my letter box! I had to beat it back with a spatula. Beastly, I tell you.

BelleDameSansMerci · 30/09/2011 21:23

Yes, I'm always finding hard-ons in my letterbox...

Roseflower · 30/09/2011 21:25

Well I don't know about the rest of you but I find empty toilet roll tubes quite troublesome.

As soon as DH spots one, that's him for the afternoon.

Quite embrassing when the neighbours have popped over.

Im always on edge as the roll nears those final sheets

YankNCock · 30/09/2011 21:45

Belle, are they the kind that come from mail order companies wrapped in plain brown paper? Grin

Sex-obsessed, I tell you.

turquoisetumble · 30/09/2011 22:04

I do not include, of course, the many men who will squeal in protest when they read this, because of course you are all such good little boys really. And if you find these views offensive, then I regret that. But while they may not apply to you, I think it very probable that enough who read this won't readily deny the truth.

Really like the demeaning 'squeal' - like little pigs - the 'good little boys' because they are not really men and the 'readily deny the truth' like your fucking Jane Austen.

I'd give it a C - bit of effort, but cliched and dull. Now excuse me, whilst I get my spatula. I am backed in a corner with Hully and those huge erections are closing in on us.

turquoisetumble · 30/09/2011 22:05

you're not 'your' - those advancing penises put me off my grammar

confidence · 30/09/2011 22:08

The OP is pretty accurate in a superficial kind of way. Many women deny this, but I suspect that's mainly because (a) they've bought into the idea of a "good" man who "isn't like all the others" - whether a real one they have now or the hope of one in the future - and (b) they simply have no idea what sex and desire feels like for a man. This isn't a criticism. Of course men have equally little idea what it feels like for a woman. But people then make the mistake of presuming that because we're all "people", it must feel for others pretty much like it does for us.

I said "superficially" though because I think the whole thing is a bit more nuanced than that. I don't think it's necessarily that men think about sex more or want sex more than women. It's just that it's a lot easier for us in some ways and doesn't always come with so much attached. I don't just mean the whole flowers and romance business, and there are some women who don't require that at all to enjoy a good hard shag. But there are also some simple practical differences that feed into deeply ingrained attitudes. On the most basic level, women generally take longer to come than men, some come never or rarely, and for many the particular circumstances and type of sex has to be exactly right for them to do so. For men - barring a minority of exceptions with specific medical problems - it's pretty much "1. Apply friction. 2. Job done."

Then there are differences of social circumstance, physical power etc, that affect attitudes to casual sex. A woman considering going home with a strange man, who is likely to be more physically powerful than her, has to consider the possibility that he might rape or be otherwise violent to her, much more than a man does with a strange woman.

I think these factors and probably many others, have led to men having a much more superficial sense of sex as a simple bodily function, satisfiable as and when necessary with pretty much anyone reasonably attractive, than women have. The OP's idea of "like going to the toilet" is pretty much it.

Which is not to say it can't be much more than that, like it can for women. But the difference is that when circumstances are such that first rate, passionate romantic sex is not available, men will generally accept any old sex in its place. Women seem to feel that it has to be above a certain quality to be worth doing, and if it isn't they would rather just go without.

cloudsandwind · 01/10/2011 00:23

Did you really liken women to toilets OP?

0/10

cecilyparsley · 01/10/2011 00:38

confidence re this 'men will generally accept any old sex in its place. Women seem to feel that it has to be above a certain quality to be worth doing, and if it isn't they would rather just go without.'

as you mention it's generally harder for women to get sexual gratification from men than vice versa, so for women any old sex really isnt worth the bother because there's probably not much in it for her

jasper · 01/10/2011 00:52

what nonsense

piprabbit · 01/10/2011 00:54

Not in my experience Envy.

confidence · 01/10/2011 01:16

Cecily - agreed.

solidgoldbrass · 01/10/2011 03:14

DO you want me to post the entire text of the article I wrote about this very subject after Stephen Fry made such a dick of himself tweeting about women not liking cottaging because they're just so boring?

beatenbyayellowteacup · 01/10/2011 07:39

sgb yes!

beatenbyayellowteacup · 01/10/2011 07:41

OP has something happened to give you this view? Have you been messed around?

Sorry if you have. It's not a fair view of men though.

Animation · 01/10/2011 07:47

Women are romantic love and sex obsessed.

I am.

Grin
pink4ever · 01/10/2011 08:06

I wish my dh was sex obssessed!Envy

solidgoldbrass · 01/10/2011 10:37

Right, you asked for it...

Are Men &Women Different?
You probably didn't miss the all-round kicking Stephen Fry earned himself with those remarks about how women don't like sex a short while ago. And it's certainly not at all unfair to feel that a gay man who has spent a lot of time celibate probably isn't actually the greatest expert on female sexual behaviour. However, plenty of other experts, some of whom may not have bought their qualifications on the internet, are in agreement with Fry's basic contention ? men want lots of sex with different partners, women want love, affection, financial support and monogamy.
Do you really need me to tell you what a crock of shit this is? Do I get to say one more time of John Gray, author of all those Mars & Venus books, mate, you're talking out of Uranus? The very strength of the outrage Fry earned himself makes it pretty clear that there are a lot of people out there who know that actually straight women are not all sexually reluctant any more than men, straight or gay, are all sexually insatiable.
Well, OK, let's look for a moment at what differences there really are. Ladies don't get erections.
Um. Actually, we do. The clitoris is made of the same sort of tissue as the penis and does indeed become erect, to some extent, when a woman is sexually excited.
Men don't menstruate. Yup, that's true enough in that men don't have a monthly bleed, however there is some speculation and I believe some research being done which suggests that men's production of testosterone may rise and fall in some kind of regular cycle.

Women have multiple orgasms and men don't. Hmm. The jury's a bit out on this one, there seem to be various tips and tricks on offer to help men come and keep on coming, though most of those who talk about the male multiple orgasm seem to be referring to staying hard without ejaculation, which may or may not meet everyone's definition of an actual orgasm. As to female ejaculation, that's another one that some seem to doubt, including the British Board of Film Certification, who did, however, have a bit of a mind-change on that and finally agreed to pass Anna Span's Women Love Porn which included scenes of a woman doing just that and not, as the BBFC had claimed, urinating.

Men have testes, women have ovaries. A man doesn't have a uterus, and a woman doesn't have a prostate gland. There isn't scope here to start dealing with intersexuality, hermaphroditism or indeed gender dysphoria, so we'll leave those for the time being and accept that there are, obviously, some biological differences between male and female. Women are generally slower to become aroused, yet once aroused, can remain so and continue engaging in sexual activity for longer than men, who generally need a rest between ejaculation and the next erection.

Move on from basic biology to the psychological and social aspects, though, and it's rather a different story. There's a fairly well known evolutionary psychology theory to the effect that (as mentioned by Jesse Berner in an article on 'polyamory chic' in Scientific American)
'men tend to become more jealous when their female partners have sex with other men, whereas women are more jealous when their male partners show signs of ?emotional infidelity? with other women. This makes good sense from an evolutionary perspective, because prior to the era of DNA testing, men were extremely vulnerable to being cuckolded and investing their limited resources in some other guys? genes (conveniently packaged in the form of children), whereas women, who evolved to rely on their male partner to help them raise their offspring to reproductive age, were at risk of having his attention?and hence his resources?diverted to another woman and her kids.'
This doesn't stand up terribly well as genetic inevitableness when you consider that some early human societies made no link between sex and pregnancy, though ? and that other societies seem to have operated along the lines of women raising children in communal groups with the men roaming off and coming back every now and again.

The feminist philosopher Nancy Tuna is cited by Curtis Forbes on Antechamber, criticising the version of the above theory put forward by Richard Dawkins among others. Tuana suggests 'there are ?evolutionary pressures? for women to be more promiscuous, and men more monogamous. For example, males are most potent when they engage in sexual activity about once every three days; but since women are only fertile for a few days a month, it is in their reproductive interest to have sex with as many different men as possible during that month. On this account, men should seek monogamy so that they can have the sole chance to impregnate a woman during her fertile period, and women should seek polygamy (especially during their short fertile period) so that they can better ensure impregnation.' Others, too, have suggested that women following their genetic imperatives would be more inclined to promiscuity than monogamy in order to be impregnated by the 'best' sperm.

You don't have to be a raging feminist to have noticed that most of the stuff about gender differences in sexual behaviour that comes from experts in evolutionary psychology or sociobiology (two 'sciences' which not everyone agrees fully merit the name) seems to favour men over women: so much of it, particularly when popularised, seems to be about telling women that they should accept men's behaviour but modify their own. And you'd have to be a bit slow on the uptake not to consider, at least, that the biggest reason for women to be generally less keen on frequent, random sexual encounters with strangers are social and cultural. Just look at the repeated public shaming and humiliation of Zoe Margolis, whose blog Girl With A One Track Mind detailed her various sexual encounters both good and bad, written under the pseudonym Abby Lee. Firstly, she was quite needlessly and spitefully outed in a Sunday paper when the blog was first published as a book; subsequently, when she wrote a second book about life following the exposure, the Independent On Sunday described her as a former sex worker (which she's not). Margolis, an exceptionally brave and determined woman, sued the Sindy and won, and continues to write and speak about female sexuality, but it takes guts to withstand this sort of constant belittling and abuse.

Possibly the silliest of Stephen Fry's assertions was that women's disinclination towards a heterosexual version of cottaging is proof of their distaste for sex. Not only is it mainly the risk of violence and being obliged to have non-consensual sex in such a situation (far greater for women than for men) which is the main off-putting factor here, but has Fry not heard of dogging, something many women as well as many heterosexual men do and enjoy? Women also are venturing in greater numbers onto the swinging scene of their own volition: while mainstream commentators still seem to want to believe that women only swing to placate or keep a partner, spending time in swingers' clubs will lead you to meet single women who go along in order to have a choice of sexual partners who are going to know the score ? and also, to have sex in a safe environment where it's understood that having sex with some of the men there doesn't mean you are automatically willing to have sex with every single one of them.

Libido mismatch in longterm heteromonogamous couples is sometimes offered as 'proof' that women like sex less than men: the stereotype of the desperately horny hubby and the angry, reluctant, frigid wifey is often waved around. As a regular reader of the Mumsnet relationships forum, I see quite a lot of evidence that, while this happens, there are nearly as many miserably frustrated women finding that their male partners show no interest in sex with them but no wish to walk out on the relationship or indeed pursue sex with other partners as long as they are getting fed and having their laundry done. It would appear to be true that women, more than men, have less tolerance for rubbish sex. Male sexuality can in some men be pretty linear ? find a hole, enter and ejaculate. Just being thrust into and spunked into is not generally all that gratifying for most women, and when a couple's sex life becomes about getting his rocks off so he'll stop pestering her, then things are just going to get worse and worse. It would seem possible that for some men, the idea that women don't much like sex unless coaxed (or given 'therapy' to make them more obedient) is a comforting one as it avoids the need for the man to consider that the problem might actually lie with his own inadequate performance: some unkind wicked feminist types, like me for instance, also think it likely that the man who is desperate to marry a virgin is a man who wants to be able to convince a naïve partner that his way of doing sex is the proper way.

Sexual desire really does seem to ebb and flow in most people though perhaps, like sexual orientation, it's a continuum, with a few people being almost constantly desperate for it and a few at the other end having no interest at all: both sex addiction and asexuality can occur in men and women, but most of us are somewhere in between those two extremes at any given moment. Probably certainly, women who have recently given birth have a considerably reduced interest in having sex: for one thing, if you gave birth in the normal way you will have a very sore twinkle for a while and if you had a Caesarean, you will have a very sore lower belly that won't fancy being bounced on or bouncing. Some people go off sex in pregnancy, either because of complicated culturally induced anxieties about the sacredness of maternity or, in the case of women, because they feel queasy and generally rough; however others find at least some of those nine months intensely horny. People who are depressed, in poor health, or on certain medications, can find their libidos are stifled as can those who are involved in some kind of all-consuming project.

To over-emphasise the differences in sexual desire and behaviour between men and women does nobody any favours in the long run ? the current obsession with gender difference in all aspects of human behaviour is very harmful as it is, purely and simply, a matter of perpetuating inequality. People who think it's important to maintain the difference between men and women are really people who think that what matters is the hierarchy ? that women shouldn't be allowed male privileges. The term 'neurosexism' coined by Cordelia Fine, author of Delusions of Gender, is a useful shorthand for the various half-baked theories that about 'male' and 'female' behaviour that always boil down to 'Women, you're less than men, suck it up.'
I'm going to give the last word here to writer Thomas Macaulay Miller, who wrote the following in an essay for the anthology Yes Means Yes - 'We live in a culture where sex is not so much an act as a thing: a substance that can be given, bought, sold, or stolen, that has a value and a supply-and-demand curve. In this ?commodity model,? sex is like a ticket; women have it and men try to get it. Women may give it away or may trade it for something valuable, but either way it?s a transaction. This puts women in the position of not only seller, but also guardian or gatekeeper ... To that way of thinking, sex can only ever be transacted, and the transaction that is the most advantageous ins the one that uses the highly valuable early product to maximum advantage, to secure the best possible marriage.

The better model for sex is the one that fits the musician: a performance model, where sex is a performance, and partnered sex is a collaboration.'
To see sex as a collaborative performance rather than a transaction is an excellent way of helping us see our sexual partners as people, as individuals with differing wishes and needs, rather than falling back on the lazy mindset of blaming everything on the other person's gender, or our own.

Animation · 01/10/2011 10:46

Monolgue police!!

LeBOF · 01/10/2011 11:00

I really enjoyed reading that; thanks Smile

giyadas · 01/10/2011 11:01

great post SGB!

rycooler · 01/10/2011 11:05

Ime ( and from talking to other women ) - men want sex a lot more than women. There's always exceptions of course, but on the whole they're more obsessed with it yes.

wamster · 01/10/2011 11:16

It's not that men are obsessed with sex and women are not. It's just that different things turn them on.

We all like (unless we are extremely unusual) to have romance and sex in our lives.
This applies to both sexes.
But, the truth is this: men get turned on by different things.
How many women go kerb-crawling for prostitutes. How many women visit brothels? Men outnumber women in this area- there is no denying it.

Women don't kerb crawl because, generally speaking, their sex drive is based upon more than just body parts. They like to consider the man they want to sleep with as a whole person.
Men don't even have to like a woman to sleep with her. With a prostitute, it's a bit of small talk, followed by sex and a polite parting of the ways (that's if the transaction went well, by the way).

So, yeah, of course men and women get turned on by different things. The problem is that some sexist pigs of men assume that because women are not turned on by the same things as them, they have no sex drive.

Smart men know that this is bullshit; they know that women have as much sex drive as they do, just that this drive is based upon different things.

Getting turned on by different things does not mean to say that women have lesser sex drive at all.

BelleDameSansMerci · 01/10/2011 11:34

SGB, I think I love you.

beatenbyayellowteacup · 01/10/2011 11:41

Ha! Good one SGB.

Thanks