We have everything but the fun - smothered by life with kids

[Naetha]

So the last few weeks has been a total rollercoaster - we've just emigrated with our two DCs, age nearly 2 and nearly 4 to Australia after six weeks of my husband working over here by himself. The whole thing has been massively stressful, which is kinda what we expected, but it has also exposed cracks within our relationship.

DH has made some good friends, one of whom is female. He is her "best" friend over here, and after some major arguments, major fucking up on both our parts and other messing about, I'm absolutely sure that he isn't going to run off with her. He has no "designs" on her, has been very open from the start, never being secretive or hiding anything. The only time we've really had a problem was last week when he didn't come home when he said he would, but that's because he panicked and thought I was really angry with him when actually I was just desperate to see him. We worked that all out in the end, although it took a lot of talking, and is still a bit of a raw nerve for me.

Anyway, she rung him last night (with good reason, she had said she'd ring to find an answer to a question) and he picked up the phone, eyes alight, bellowing with laughter, animated and just in a way that I haven't seen for years. That's when I realised what was missing from our marriage, and it broke my heart to see him like that with someone else when we don't have it any more. I talked to him about it after the phone call, and after talking for about 4 hours we were able to talk it through - he admits he has something with her that he doesn't have with me any more. He can't help it - it's just something he feels one way and not the other, but it breaks my heart. It's the emotional equivalent of him getting an erection every time he sees her when he can't get one with me.

We love eachother - after a LOT of talking, we are sure about that. We have a good sex life - it's been poor in the past, but it's about 4 times a week at the moment. We share values, interests, taste in music etc.

What we're missing is that spark - our life has become routine - we talk about the negative in our days so we score "points" against the other in the hope of having an easier ride of it in the evenings with the bedtime routine. We never have fun together. If we do, the kids spoil it - whether it's shopping, eating out etc, so we just end up doing things for the kids, which is OK to some extent, but we don't get anything out of it for ourselves.

However, we're in a foreign country, 12,000 miles from friends and family that could babysit/give us a break. Where on earth do we start to get that sense of fun / spark back? I'm finding it absolutely smothering looking after two very demanding pre-schoolers who are as stressed out by the move as we are, and when DH comes home from a long hard day at work it's very difficult for either of us to be anything other than grumpy and exhausted, and by the time the kids are in bed by 8pm, we're both exhausted.

I know it will get better with time, but I need something to work on now or I won't be able to get through the next few weeks.

He needs to stop the relationship with her I think it is obvious she isn't just a mate a work it is more if he is that animated when talking to her.

Sorry how exactly am I meant to"get my man back" and "get rid of her"? They work together. I'm not a bloody hit-man .

Thank you for the other valuable advice. Weekends are currently family time, but unfortunately we have to spend a fair amount of our time house hunting, car shopping etc. We have been to the beach, big parks together as a family, but so far it's been a disaster - the kids have been so appalling we've ended up leaving early and sacking it off. I know a lot of this will come with time, but out doesn't make it any easier right now.
Some really good bits of advice there, thanks to those who answered my question :)

I think it will be difficult to get things back on track with this woman on the scene. He's come 'alive' since he's been out there and he's 'bellowing' with laughter when he talks to her. These are huge red flags. And no he isn't going to say he wants to go off with her..
He probably doesn't at the moment...
DecapitatedLegoman made some good suggestons though..

The fact that the friendship with this womanise so out in the open and has been heavily discussed between the two of you is a gift to someone on the verge of an affair. There are no secrets and you have been willing to accept it all and talk it over which leaves the door very open. The very fact that you feel there is something is warning enough. How many of his other colleagues have been mentioned in your chats about your current problems?

I am with counting10 (from bitter experience). Not having "designs" on her makes no difference, if you read Not Just Friends you will see how easy it is for a friendship to make the slippery slope into an affair (emotional or physical) and from what you have said your H and this woman has crossed a few lines already and he already has feelings for her (although I think both of you are in denial about this bit).

I would sit down with him and agree on boundaries (e,g no personal calls, no being alone with her, and only meet in a group and in a safe venue, and no socialising with groups of single people).

Also remember that your H has half the responsibility for the relationship - is he coming up with ideas/suggestions??

I also agree you need to look at building your own life with new friends, interests etc- it will help your self esteem and you will become even more attractive in your H's eyes.

waving .from other side of world, am pming as don't want to inadvertantly out you even more. Decapitated legoman has good suggestions. You sound low today have not heard you discribe your lovely kids so negatively before. I would humbly suggest the power balance in your relationship has changed vastly with this move and you are both still reeling., Best advice I ever had at a very difficult time was be kind to yourself. Agree you cannot go get the other women she may just have seen your dh as safe to talk to because he is married with kids.

As far as the friend is concerned I see no issue. I have very close male friends whom I get on with very well and they are no threat to my marriage, no matter how bad things get. You are a very kind and loving partner to want your DH to have this friendship even though you envy it in some ways. I hope he appreciates that.

TBH from reading your posts I think your big issue is the kids. You seem to both struggle to deal with them and thus see your time together with them as a chore. Are there ways you could improve their behaviour so days out aren't such a disaster?

Naetha we did the move abroad some years ago now with DCs at similar ages (1, 3, 6). It wasnt so far but it was a huge upheaval for us all with a new language to learn etc.

One thing which stuck with me was that especially at the start you are on a huge rollercoaster. The problem is that you arent on the same track. At the moment your DH is going through a honeymoon phase with work. He's the new guy in. It's all terribly exciting. So right now he is up, isnt this new life great!. Unfortunately you are stuck at home trying to sort out your home, everything you ever knew about being a grown-up is wrong. Your rollercoaster is at the bottom of its track. You have a long climb up to do. You can manage this but it is hard work. You will start to get the house sorted. Then you will start to feel like you are up. At some point your DH's rollercoaster ride will take a dip. It sounds to me like you and your DH have the strength to do this but I think your DH does need to be a bit more understanding that your job is very hard right now and he needs to recognise this. Sorry about the lack of paragraphs MN has banned them!

I totally get what you're saying about missing the 'fun' in your lives. I think it's incredibly easily done at this stage - everything becomes about things you Have to do - looking after the children, sorting out the house, cooking - and then as you say the conversations become about competitive tiredness. Where's the fun in any of that? How about starting very small - watching something funny on TV with a take away or listening to music you both like - something that doesn't really require any major money or effort, but can take you both out of that drudgery and into a more 'fun' place?

I can't get past the fact that you have sex 4 times a week.... with someone you are saying you have no spark/emotional connection with. Really?? How does that work then?
It's fine for him, he's getting all the emotional stuff from another woman and has a vagina on tap at home but I don't really see what you're getting out it.

This link may be useful when you talk to your H about boundaries etc

www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php

We have the emotional connection, we love eachother , I think we're in love with eachother, we fancy eachother, we're just getting dragged down by the shitness that is life at the moment, and we're not having any fun together.

We have no way of playing music, we have terrestrial tv (and ozzie tv really IS crap!), we can't go out together, so he gets his fun going out drinking with friends, and I don't. I'm not going to stop him having fun just because I don't have anyone to go out with yet. We are being invited to things together, but we just can't go unless they're daytime things with the kids. I'd like to add as well, that he's been out once since we've got here, other than lunchtime drinks, and has really cut down the time he spends with this woman to virtually nothing. He is still her friend though, which is why he will be helping her move house next weekend with another friend, and talks her through her dating dilemmas.

Maybe I've misconstrued the relationship they have? They definitely have a connection, that much is evident, but they're not mooning over eachother. The first meeting between the three of us was odd to say the least, but I believe her and DH's reasons for that, and she later apologised for blanking me. DH admitted that the way he'd been going on about her was inappropriate, and that has been scaled down massively. At the end of the day I can't stop them being friends, and to be honest, I don't want to. I don't want to force them into being secretive with what is a strong, but I'm fairly confident, platonic relationship.

The way he was on the phone with her was just an indication of how he is in his new life with his new persona. It just reminded me of the man I fell in love with all those years ago, and made me sad that we don't have it like that any more.

I showed DH that quiz yesterday - he scored 1.

I wouldn't necessarily believe nothing has happened between them tbh.

Imo it's not really on that he suddenly has this great life over there and you don't, probably because you have more of the responsibilities with the kids etc. He isn't showing much sensitivity towards you in that regard. This bs about 'friends' is exactly that... bs. He's met someone he has a connection with, he's already said if he was single, he'd put the moves on her and that's enough to convince me that there's something going on between them. He's helping her move... WTF like??! Why the hell isn't he home helping you with HIS children.

I think it's time for you to get your angry on and nip this one in the bud.

I don't think a relationship can be fun all the time. Getting out of the house together will probably help. Also trying to make everyday things fun rather than routine drudgery. It's not always possible but it makes home life much more enjoyable.

I know you are probably sick of people going on about this woman. However for what it's worth, if my dp had said that he would probably get together with one of his friends if he was single after only knowing them for less than 2 months, I would definitely hope that he would be aware that this was a real threat to our relationship and that he did everything in his power to reduce contact and only keep it to a professional level. I don't think your do can be friends with this woman, it's not healthy for him, you or your relationship.

I am also one who thinks this friendship needs to be relegated to work colleagues only. Phoning at home at night (I never ever ever phone my work colleagues at home, I might send them an email), helping out with moving, his eyes lighting up, staying out late and not coming home (because you were 'cross' WTF?) He is not making it easy for you to settle in this new country and that needs to be his job right now.

I don't doubt men and women can be great friends, but this is not platonic long-term friendship, she's single, and he's loving the attention.

I think you are too scared to blow a fuse and tell him not to contact her again except as colleagues because you've moved and the power balance has shifted.

Of course you can't recreate the fun and excitement of him going out drinking or having a lunch with this single attractive female. That's not actually possible, as you have children to care for and may be tired when you get out in the evenings (what with all the sex'n all).

I think I would spell out to him what will happen if it does all go tits up and he does something very silly (like: 'I will return to the UK with the children') so he is pretty clear about it. Of course, making friends, joining stuff, adjusting is important too, but that will take time and you can't just switch into party mode to save your marriage.

I wish I'd never mentioned this woman. She is not the issue. DH only said he'd have got together with her if (and that's a big if) he was single after extreme pressure from me to answer the question.

The power balance is equal, DH is well aware of what the consequences of his actions are.

Leningrad I really feel for you - sounds like what we're going through with half a nervous breakdown each. Fingers crossed we can all get a break soon.

I'm sorry, but I think you are both being naive to think she is not an issue. I don't really see what else is wrong in your relationship, you have an emotional connection, you have sex...thats having fun isn't it? You can have fun doing anything together. I think what you are saying is how do you compete with the kind of fun your dp and this woman have together. The answer is you can't. Your relationship with him is reality, his relationship with her is fantasy and fantasy always wins "fun" wise.

4 and 2 is really hard, especially without a support network. We were living away from family at that stage and it was tough, we were both tired, stressed, and seemed to spend all our time giving each other breaks.

Now dcs are 5 and almost three and it is much better. We can actually go out and do things like beach, ice skating, bike riding etc without it being hellish. We are finally having fun as a family. So maybe you just need to hang in there a bit longer! We have also moved back to be near my dad, and even though he doesn't help much, just having another adult around has taken some of the pressure off.

Have a look at findababysitter.com.au

I would be a bit worried about a woman whose best friend is a married man.

That just sounds a bit weird, surely she should be your friend too?
And what is she doing placing all her stuff on your husband? I do find it bothering.

You and your DH need to find some mutual friends and shared interests again. It's tough when the kids are small but you need to demonstrate to the kids that you and DH have your own lives, and ask that woman to babysit and go out!

Naetha, I followed your last thread and I was speechless then, as I am now. You are being waaaaaaay to accommodating with your dh AND this woman! Let her hire a removal company to help her move, you have just moved half way around the world and your life is still in chaos .... your dh needs to be with his family ffs!

You are getting really good advice on this thread but you are choosing to ignore it! Your head is well and truly stuck in the sand if you think the relationship between your dh and this woman is not an issue. An impending affair is happening right before your eyes and you can't see it

You are either very naive or such a nice person that you can't see the bad in people. Please listen to the good advice and warnings you are being given here and rein that dh of yours in before its too late.

Sorry but I think you sound like a complete mug-your dh told you that if he werent with you he would be with her!! listen to what he is telling you woman!!!

I think the female friend is a non-issue personally. It is perfectly possible for men and women to have lively, fulfilling friendships with each other that are not about sex. Have none of you ever had that 'coming alive' feeling when you've made a new friend of the same sex? I have. Why should it be different just because it involves a man and a woman?

Only the OP, her DH and the 'other woman' know the truth of this friendship and whether there is any risk to it. The OP cannot possibly go round preventing her DH from having female friends because of a perceived threat to her marriage. That way madness lies. It's not up to the OP to police her DH's behaviour and friendships. It's up to him. If he lets her down, it's his responsibility and his fault.

I expect the OP has said she won't put up with infidelity and her DH, if he is a decent man, will honour that even if he does find other women attractive. He's not a child with no self control in a sweet shop. He's a grown man who has made vows and brought his wife to the other side of the world, so presumably he wants to be with his wife and has no intention of letting his marriage go down the toilet.

That said, I'm more concerned about the fact that the DH is getting to live his dream life while the OP is stuck with domestic drudgery and the stress. THAT is what needs to change. My advice to the OP would get her DH to step up to the mark in terms of domestic stuff and go out herself. No one to go out with? Get out there and start meeting people.

My DSis emigrated and you two are following a very similar path. It nearly destroyed their marriage - not because of infidelity but because the happier he got with his dream coming true, the unhappier she became because her dream wasn't panning out like his. She became so homesick and unhappy she wanted to return to the UK and he, who'd never been happier, didn't of course. Unless you build your own life, sooner rather than later, I forsee a very similar path.

The best way to solve this is to find your feet first. If you're happy with yourself, the rest will follow.

Good luck.