He doesn't want to marry me - Long

[ButternutSquish]

Name Changed for this one....

Sorry, this will be long but I want to fill you in on some background.

I met my DP online nearly 3 years ago & we moved in about 17 months ago. Prior to moving in, he told me that he'd had a breakdown in the past and he took tablets. He's a bit quirky and he'd been fine so I was ok with that.

When looking for a house he decided he wanted to buy alone and I'd pay a 'rent'. I was a bit miffed but as I already had a house I figured that it was early days and it gave me security if anything went wrong in the beginning. We chose the house together but just before moving in he asked me to sign a cohabitation agreement, which is in effect a pre-nup. I was quite shocked but when we talked it through I felt it didn't really make any difference. We both have good jobs, and I don't need him for his money or anything. Then his parents came down and his Dad give me a little 'chat' and was asking whether I was contributing to the morthage, etc etc.

Anyway, we moved in, everythings been fine although I did find out that he is has schizophrenia which I wish he'd been honest about.

I've been married before & the divorce was finalised whilst we've been dating. I've always been very honest about wanting to get married again at some point, and I felt that moving in together was a stepping stone to this.

Last year after some rather athletic and satisfactory sex (sorry, tmi) whilst in the afterglow I said that I wanted to marry him. Not an actual proposal, just a statement. He flipped a bit and said it was far too soon and what was I thinking of. I was quite upset, & we discussed it. He said, not never, just not yet.

Aside from this my friend makes bridal jewellery & tiaras and so the subject of weddings comes up quite alot and of course we've talked about our dream weddings. She is a friend of both of us, and we chat about her and her business and he's asked me what my dream wedding would be. He also often says things like, 'let's run away to Vegas'.

A couple of months ago during a conversation, he told me that he never wanted to get married. I was really shocked as I thought he should have mentioned it before hand. I asked him if it was about the money (he has more than me) but he said no, and he just didn't want to as things always seemed to go wrong. I thought about leaving but that seemed ridiculous as the whole point is that I want to be him, faults and all. At some point later he told me that he didn't want to get married now, but he would at some point later.

A couple more months have gone by and during a conversation about the house it became apparent that the reason why he didn't want to marry me was the money. He has recently be made a Partner in the firm he works for. I offered to sign a Pre-nup but he still says no. I feel he doesn't trust me and I do pride myself on my ethics. I have my own house, my own business, car, savings and I pay half for everything. I feel as if he's ripped my heart out.

After a massive row he admits he's got caught up in the money side of things and been blinded by it. He admits that I've never done anything to make him feel that I would want to take anything from him. I have handed back the jewellery (a few nice things) back to him as I don't want anyone to think I have taken anything from him. (he didn't take it but I put it in one of his drawers).

We've managed to get back on track although I feel everything is very fragile at the moment, and it wasn't helped by a visit to his parents where his dad quizzed me on my pension arrangements (WTF!!) He's away on business and back on saturday and he told me on the phone he's bought me "something". I love presents the same as anyone, but I feel I can't accept it but it I don't we'll be back to square one.

Feeling really shit, and works really stressful at the moment. And just had the period from hell after being nearly 3 weeks late!

In what sense is refusing to marry you or make any kind of legal or financial commitment to you not a 'backwards step' in the usual progress of a long-term relationship?

It seems as though it's one rule for you (you must make every effort to show the relationship is 'moving forwards' in his eyes) but another for him (he can throw up as many obstacles as he likes but you have no redress).

He's doing this because he can. He knows you'll roll over and agree to it rather than lose him. It doesn't sound as though he'd do the same for you. He's being a twat, OP, but you're enabling him by being a doormat.

@pchip - Yes, I think he's perfectly happy with the way things are. This all started up again because I may be given a financial gift by my parents (sale of departed GPs house) which they will reasonably want me to pay off some of my mortgage. We were discussing this and I was saying it was an amazing, life changing gift for me, "yes," he replied "life changing for us". I said no, for me as I would pay towards my mortgage. He then said that I could buy into his house. He'd promised me when we moved in that we'd look at that in May 2012 (to fit in with the end of a fix rate I had). When challenged on this he said that I could if I was had an equal share. I would never have had an equal amount & still wouldn't even with the gift. I did some sort of mental leaps and gymnastics and said "It IS all about the money, that's why you don't want to marry me", to which he agreed sheepishly. And the rest is history.

I am being the twat, a dormat, useless and a million other things. I am scared to lose him. I do want to be with him. I'm not sure I'd find anyone else who'd love me...................and all those other fucked up things going around my head! with myself

Of course you will find someone who loves you EVEN MORE!

But I suspect deep down you know this...

actually, I don't

I met my DP over a year ago. I was very tempted to move in with him and started spending more and more time in his house as it was more convenient for everybody.But now he knows and I made it clear to him that although I am in love with him and he is committed to me in words the only way I would live with him if we got married and bought a place together .I have made that mistake in the past moving in with a man thinking naively that soon he will be committed to me but obviously he was perfectly comfortable that I lived there so he didn't have to carry on "dating" me and I was a live in girlfriend I resented him soon and he noway was interested in marriage.This time with my new man I am keeping my own home and Independence and no matter how much I love him he has to commit to me before I move.This is just my own example . good luck with your decision Butternut

Wow, reading your last post .... I'm really sorry ButternutSquish. That must have hurt so much. I think deep down you know it's not going to work, but it's just so damn hard, isn't it. I mean it's not like you're in an abusive relationship, you guys have fun together, you love each other.... compared to other couples you know, you two are probably a lot happier and luckier than others you know. It might feel like you're being stupid/crazy to give up all that to be alone, to start again.... for a "what if" with another guy. If there even is another guy, right?

The thing is, this is a deal-breaker for you and I think you know this. It is harder and harder as we get older to think about starting again relationship wise, isn't it. But you know, the thing is... you are hoping he's the someone you would grow old. (I don't know why, but that opening scene from the Pixar movie "Up" just popped into my head and brought tears into my eyes).

No one on here can tell you if he's that man. But from how you describe his actions towards you, I don't think you think he is.

So you are mourning what could have been. Not what is.

He was happy to step aside and let you buy drinks for him, becuase "he liked being treated". He is happy for you to live in his house, be in control, have a co-habitation agreement, and that you DONT pay mortgage and get an equal share in his house. And he wants you to give him your inheritance to buy into his house..... This man is greedy. Greed is one of the worst "virtues" in a person.

He is trying very hard to ensure you dont get your hand on his assets, but he wants you to give him yours.....

Dont buy into his home!

Pay off your own mortgage, or even better:
Use the money to buy yourself another property near him. That way, you own TWO houses. One mortgaged that the tenants are paying down for you, and one with very little mortgage (or maybe nothing?) that you pay down yourself, instead of paying into any "joint savings" with him.

That should truly give you the financial upper hand. Maybe he wants to marry you then.

@ QS - Well I had already decided that I was going to use the money to pay off some of my mortgage. So no, he's not going to get my money. I am planning on buying other property to wish some other savings I have, and this will be without him too. It's funny because I wanted to start up another business and I was talking to him about it a while ago and he said, oh I'd invest with you......eh? I wouldn't say he was greedy, but everything with him is about being fair, although that doesn't seem to apply much to me does it.

@ pchil - I'm not sure I could go through all this again. If we split I have to be sure as this will be the last time I put myself through all of this. I don't want to make snap decisions. But I am hurting BIG TIME

duurrr "wish" I mean "use". Brain dead now

I echo what QS said. Your relationship sounds very reasonable and lots of it contains much of what other relationships lack - the telling you he loves you, etc, etc. And I can quite see why you think you should just put up and shut up. You are after all an independent woman, financially solvent and have enjoyed some happy times with this chap. However, some of what you have written does sound a bit of a veneer as if he thinks that's how couples behave but then I'm making value judgements off a few words and you sound as if you would be able to see through that.

I did wonder if his lack of enthusiasm for marriage is a fear about his condition. Is there a possibility that he is worried that should he have another extended episode that this would impact very negatively and significantly on your life and you would not be able to extracate yourself so easily if you were married. He sounds a somewhat black and white type thinker so might be assuming (wrongly I would say but these things have massive impacts on people and who is to say what any of us would do faced with a completely changed personality in one that we loved) that should his mental health deteriorate that you would want out. After all you did not know him during his last bout and perhaps he is aware and anxious about how, should he deteriorate again, this might impact on you if you were married.

It worries me that he asked about using your inheritance to buy into his house yet is not willing to make a formalisation of the situation via marriage which he knows you want. Was he married before? Given his standing in the law firm and his social mileiu (sp????) I wonder if he knows chaps that have been taken to the cleaners by their exes (good) and thinks that is what is going to happen to him should you split. You are both obviously financially careful people and I think his reactions at first (afterall you could have been a financial flibbertyjibbet with no fiscal control at all) were extreme but possibly justifiable given his background and income. However, you are 3 years down the line now and obviously very secure and not an 'unsafe pair of hands' with the old lucre so his attitude is odd.

I wonder whether you bide your time for a while, monitor the situation and possibly plan to move out whilst maintaining the relationship to see what his reaction will be. If he wants you he will put his own wishes secondary. If his fears and anxieties are too great then, with regret, wave it goodbye.

I am utterly gobsmacked at some of the comments.

"He is more than happy to let you pay half for everything"
But why wouldn't he be?! That is totally normal in a relationship between two working adults in a relationship. Unless someone is a SAHM or a student (or some other temporary situation) why wouldn't they pay half?

"If you're happy with your financial situation then, and are happy to be independent and responsible for yourself alone (which sounds perfectly reasonable if that's how you prefer things to be) then why exactly do you want to be legally married?"
People get married for other reasons than finance! What's strange about being married and also happy to be financial responsible and support oneself.

This man is obsessed with money! I think he'd rather end alone than share any finances with a partner. Could it be that he has bad previous experiences with women that have taken financial advantage of him.
Why don't you tell him that if you got married you would be prepared to sign a separation of assets ( not sure the legal term in English) so he can take all his money to the grave and so can you! If he still does not want to get marriend, then you know it's not only about the money

I doubt he wants to separate assets. He seems keen to keep his hands on his own assets, and get his hand on hers.... Greed.

Two thoughts OP

One, that if he married you you'd have legal next of kin status and if he were ill you'd be the one that could get him sectioned. Not sure I'd ever trust someone enough to put myself in that position.

Two, why not rent 'his' house and both of you rent somewhere separate. That would redress the power balance and he would be as inconvenienced by that as you currently are.

Actually one more thought! Are you getting 'infected' by his money obsession?
You love him. you have a relationship that seems to work (on the whole) and you seem well matched in terms of life expectations. Why let all this crap drag you down? Just enjoy being together.

(And tell his parents to fuck the fuck off)

Thanks to everyone who has commented.....

Thanks MrsHicks, I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt that way! @ Flyingmum - he is a black & white thinker and I don't think you're a million miles off the mark in your comments.

@ holeysmoley - the gift was some lovely glasswork. I knew it wouldn't be a ring and even he'd know that jewellery currently would be a mistake.

Whilst I haven't agreed with some of the comments I have taken everything on board and it has given me a chance to think things through whilst he has been away.

He has come home today and after a sleep we have had a very long and thankfully calm conversation about everything I've mentioned on here. I've explained how hurt i've been by his comments and that I want him to be committed to me, if not by marriage then by some other means.

He has also explained that he was feeling like I was pushing him into marriage which he says he isn't anti, but isn't ready at the moment. He has apologised profusely, was terribly upset & desperately doesn't want me to leave.

I know there will be people on here who will comment negatively on this and will tell me to leave, but I am not going to comment further. I need to be positive about our future and we need to work out how we are going to move further together.

Sorry that you're so upset, ButternutSquish. I'm reminded, by your posts, of other posters who are trying desperately to pull everything together after their partner betrays them.

I know that your posts are just a 'snapshot' of your relationship but that relationship is how YOU perceive it as nobody else here would know anything about it. You sound sad that you can't have children (through endometriosis) but acknowledge that your partner probably wouldn't want them anyway.

You sound like you're teetering on the edge waiting for a marriage proposal that will probably not come. I personally think it's a bad sign when a man asks a woman what her dream wedding would be and nothing comes of it, no positive discussion, no engagement, no commitment to a life together at all. In fact, all the commitment is from you. You're ready but this man is not and, I'd say that he's never going to be ready - or at least not with you. That sounds very hard, I know, but if he were ready to settle down with you, if he really wanted to make a future with you, he'd let you know in no uncertain terms, without any doubt. He's put little obstacles in the way each time you've removed them (pre-nup offered by you, refused by him), etc.

You can't pull this relationship along by yourself, it takes two, and at the moment, there's just you trying to push it along. I think that you partner's condition is a bit of a red herring, he's being treated, isn't he?

Just think how lovingly you think of him and how much in love you are with him and what you would do to prove that.... how far is all of that reciprocated from his side?

I know that you don't want to hear anything that isn't positive and you probably won't come back to read your thread but I post as I see and I don't agree with fudging with a soft response for the sake of it.

Wish you well and I hope it works out for the best for you.

Good luck! :)

Right, so he's now going to dangle the idea of proposing over your head like a doggy treat for the rest of the relationship.

I think if he isn't ready to marry you after 3 years, at the age he is with no financial worries or children to worry about, then what he is really saying is that "I NEVER want to marry you".
Perhaps he really doesn'rt believe in marriage or perhaps he just doesn't want to marry you.
I am saying this because years ago I was good friends with a couple who lived together, they had been together for many years (about 8). The woman wanted to get married, the man maintained that he did not believe in marriage. The woman wanted to have a child, the man said he never wanted children.
Anyway, he had an affair,the initail relationship ended, badly. He quickly married the ow in a full white wedding. I am talking big church, grand reception the whole lot. They then underwent years of fertility treatment and finally had a child. So much for his "I don't believe in marriage and I never want a child" crap. He was a really nice guy though other things considered. I am just trying to show you how things turned out for my female friend. She did end up marrying someone else, but she wasted years of her life believing the lies she was told because it suited her to believe it.

Bottom line if you really believe in marriage and an equal partnership then this guy is not the one for you.