He doesn't want to marry me - Long

[ButternutSquish]

Name Changed for this one....

Sorry, this will be long but I want to fill you in on some background.

I met my DP online nearly 3 years ago & we moved in about 17 months ago. Prior to moving in, he told me that he'd had a breakdown in the past and he took tablets. He's a bit quirky and he'd been fine so I was ok with that.

When looking for a house he decided he wanted to buy alone and I'd pay a 'rent'. I was a bit miffed but as I already had a house I figured that it was early days and it gave me security if anything went wrong in the beginning. We chose the house together but just before moving in he asked me to sign a cohabitation agreement, which is in effect a pre-nup. I was quite shocked but when we talked it through I felt it didn't really make any difference. We both have good jobs, and I don't need him for his money or anything. Then his parents came down and his Dad give me a little 'chat' and was asking whether I was contributing to the morthage, etc etc.

Anyway, we moved in, everythings been fine although I did find out that he is has schizophrenia which I wish he'd been honest about.

I've been married before & the divorce was finalised whilst we've been dating. I've always been very honest about wanting to get married again at some point, and I felt that moving in together was a stepping stone to this.

Last year after some rather athletic and satisfactory sex (sorry, tmi) whilst in the afterglow I said that I wanted to marry him. Not an actual proposal, just a statement. He flipped a bit and said it was far too soon and what was I thinking of. I was quite upset, & we discussed it. He said, not never, just not yet.

Aside from this my friend makes bridal jewellery & tiaras and so the subject of weddings comes up quite alot and of course we've talked about our dream weddings. She is a friend of both of us, and we chat about her and her business and he's asked me what my dream wedding would be. He also often says things like, 'let's run away to Vegas'.

A couple of months ago during a conversation, he told me that he never wanted to get married. I was really shocked as I thought he should have mentioned it before hand. I asked him if it was about the money (he has more than me) but he said no, and he just didn't want to as things always seemed to go wrong. I thought about leaving but that seemed ridiculous as the whole point is that I want to be him, faults and all. At some point later he told me that he didn't want to get married now, but he would at some point later.

A couple more months have gone by and during a conversation about the house it became apparent that the reason why he didn't want to marry me was the money. He has recently be made a Partner in the firm he works for. I offered to sign a Pre-nup but he still says no. I feel he doesn't trust me and I do pride myself on my ethics. I have my own house, my own business, car, savings and I pay half for everything. I feel as if he's ripped my heart out.

After a massive row he admits he's got caught up in the money side of things and been blinded by it. He admits that I've never done anything to make him feel that I would want to take anything from him. I have handed back the jewellery (a few nice things) back to him as I don't want anyone to think I have taken anything from him. (he didn't take it but I put it in one of his drawers).

We've managed to get back on track although I feel everything is very fragile at the moment, and it wasn't helped by a visit to his parents where his dad quizzed me on my pension arrangements (WTF!!) He's away on business and back on saturday and he told me on the phone he's bought me "something". I love presents the same as anyone, but I feel I can't accept it but it I don't we'll be back to square one.

Feeling really shit, and works really stressful at the moment. And just had the period from hell after being nearly 3 weeks late!

" I guess I'm just a traditionalist at heart. I want him to stand in front of everyone and say..."yes, I love this woman & I want to spend the rest of my life with her". Marriage to me is about that, the celebration of your love for each other."

You can do this without the legally binding marriage contract part - just a commitment ceremony or blessing, where you can make vows in front of family and friends, exchange rings etc, the only bit missing really is signing the register. Would you be happy with that? I guess you'd still have the sense that he was holding back, unwilling to fully trust and share with you, at least I would in your situation. It wouldn't be about the money for me either, I've always paid my own way too, but about the trust aspect of it.

"He wants to commit to me & be with me, that's not an issue"

This commitment to you however, is all on his terms; even something as insignificant as a bin size has been decided by him. He uses his illness to sanction such a choice. That would also concern me.

Getting the tenents removed from your own house in the event of a split would take time as well.

He clearly knows you want to marry him and he does not want to. If you want marriage then you will need to find another man to marry. There's nothing wrong with wanting marriage but I think you are on a hiding to nothing ultimately with this particular individual.

If you flip this around and switch sexes I think you would get different views. He does sound committed to you You both have houses and you have half of his business etc He loves you you get him so marriage shouldn't really matter should it?

@ solidgoldbrass What I know about schizophrenia is based on what I read on the web and living with him. He's not violent in any way, shape or form. He holds a very respectable job and has just been made a Partner of a law firm. I tell him regularly that he can be selfish and to be fair, he has become more able to compromise since we moved in together. I think being with me, talking about issues that worry him has been really beneficial for his mental health. I'm not worried about the "financial insecurity", what insecurity is there for me? I work, I pay my mortgage, I get rent, I run my business....

If you're happy with your financial situation then, and are happy to be independent and responsible for yourself alone (which sounds perfectly reasonable if that's how you prefer things to be) then why exactly do you want to be legally married?

OP - if you really want marriage, marriagiable commitment with someone, rather than him himself warts and all as he is now, then quit immediately. I speak from the other side - see my active post - though dear god I don't think I am extreme or ill like your dp. I am certainly a commitment phobe and had an interfering mother who warned me all my life against being married for my money - so I can't see that he will ever marry you. Also remember that lawyers are trained in divorce law and will always concentrate, yes concentrate, on the worst poss outcome and strive to avoid it. I have read that you want to pay half etc etc, but he is not listening and he will never trust you. There is no hope at all. Get out now and find someone better. Don't waste any more time.

Sorry Noddy, I'm with with you? I have a house because I already had a house IYSWIM & he was renting. He bought & I've kept mine, initially I had a fixed rate and couldn't sell and for the sake of being sensible if it went tits up after moving in with him. I now can't sell the house as that is my security. I don't have half his business either. I have my own small business, he is a partner in a firm.

@ Attila Getting the tenants out isn't a problem. If I wanted to move out I'd serve notice and either stay at friends, rent something or go to a hotel.

you need to move out. At the moment he holds all the power and control in your relationship. He won't give you want you want and has no reason to.

Move out, live on your own and date him, if he ends your relationship so quickly then he doesn't really love you. If he's not prepared to put any effort in to convincing you to be with him, then he really doesn't care about you and you are just the live in company and regular shag.

Honestly as well, you need to see you can cope without him, as if you do move back in you need to understand this isn't a long term commitment from him, so you are just with him on a day to day basis.

Close your joint account, stick half the savings in his name and half in yours. He might be the person you grow old with, but he's probably not. And he doesn't see you that way.

I made no mention of schizophrenics being inevitably violent (though obviously some are, sometimes). Like Atilla, I am beginning to wonder if his illness isn't maybe a bit convenient for him ie he can use it as a justification for having things all his way. Have you got a bit of a rescuer streak, OP? If so, please understand that love and patience are NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES an effective cure for mental illness.

@ Countrydreamer...oh dear, not read your thread and not sure I want to. And of course I was being flippant when I said I need to think whether I want the dress/day or him. If I wanted the dress that much I'd bloody well buy one for myself and walk around in it when he wasn't there! Coming from a situation where I was married before, I could've taken him for a ride for the money, but I didn't. We split amicably, I organised the divorce and no lawyer was involved. I'm sorry if you've had a rough time, it sounds like it. Whilst my DP has an illness, I don't in general think of him as being "ill" or "extreme" especially when I read threads on MN about DH's visiting prostitutes, excessive drinking/gambling etc etc. He essentially is a man with a mental health issue, please be careful what you say, don't forget I still love him very much even though he has hurt me very much

@ LydiaWickham Gee hon, thanks! Just a shag? Hmmm, think I have a bit more self esteem to think about than think that about myself.

@ solidgoldbrass not implying you're saying he's violent, I'm just saying he's not. I'm sure love and patience are not a cure, but it helps if you are. I've never thought of myself having a rescuer streak....something to think about.

I'm not here to have a row about the rights and wrongs of what he's done. I'm hurt. He's been a shit, illness or no illness but I do live day to day with him and I know when he's putting it on.

OP - I am sorry to be insensitive. I was shocked by your thread and it rang alarm bells. It's not me who has had the rough time, I am the commitment phobe with the power in the relationship. I will never trust a man enough to marry him, unless he had way more money than me, and even then probably not. That's my hang up and my DP and his predecessor have both suffered as a result. I won't change and I doubt your DP will. His parents will always interfere and remind him not to trust you. (It's not you personally as an individual as such, they would do this to any woman he became involved with.) You will become more and more unhappy, you will lose your self esteem. Sorry, but seriously, it is doomed to failure. It is better to break with him now than in 5 years time. Put yourself first.

FWIW I was with my XP 4 years, the last 2 of which I was desperate to get engaged and "settle down" with him. He was really non-committal about marriage, although in every other aspect the relationship was great, and I never doubted that he loved me.

Eventually I just couldn't keep quiet any more, the marriage issue started to take over my every waking moment. One day I straight out asked him if he ever intended to marry me, and the answer was a direct "No". I packed my things and left.

I has taken me 3 years to get myself back on track after the break-up, but I have now met a man who treats me like I am the most beautiful, important, special person on the planet, and is desperate to marry me. The relief of not having to push, push, push all the time to get what I want is immense.

I thought my previous relationship was a really good relationship, but in reality he was a commitment-phobe who was happy to be with me when I was being "easy" (ie not pushing the relationship forward) but was Just Not That Into Me.

I suppose my point is that even though this relationship isn't exactly toxic, its not great, and its not the best you deserve. Give yourself a chance to meet someone who wants to positively race up the aisle with you and be honest with yourself and your partner about what you really need.

Good luck

@ CD soooo......I don't know what's happened with you but if one thing could make you change, what would that be? And is this because someone did try and take money from you?

@ FlyingOnion thanks for your post. I'd like to think he was "Just That Into Me". Obviously I'm in the relationship so it's difficult to tell. He gives all the right signals all the way through; calls when he said he would, tells me he loves me, looks at me longingly, hugs and kisses me, tells me how lovely, special and wonderful I am, and I could go on and on.

I'm definately not in a mental place to leave at the moment

Mine did that too, I'm sorry to say, but he wasn't that into me that he could give me what I wanted at the cost of having to get over some of his silly fears.

Current DP would do anything to keep me, even something he really, really didn't want to do because, whatever it was, it wouldn't be worth losing me.

That's really what I mean...

OP - the cause for me personally, and quite possibly for him too?? oh, indoctrination by parents, and my own personal insecurity. No, no one has tried to take money from me.

The cure. There isn't one. I suppose I would have to meet someone who had at least the same amount of money as me (and I would check this out somehow) and he was so incredibly positive and so incredibly loving (and goodlooking so I actually fancied him - I've never been able to pull anyone I fancied) that I would believe that I was loved for myself and then i might, possibly, believe and trust. But not whilst my parents were still dripping poison. And I really can't imagine it. It's too late. I admit I do still nurse a faint hope of a knight on a white charger, and that only makes me dissatisfied with my DP. Poor poor chap, he can't win.

The hang up is inside your DP's head. You can't do anything about it. Don't try to be the cure. Repeat - don't try to cure him. You have already done everything you can. It is his burden. His fate. You deserve a lot better. Please save yourself.

Thanks everyone, especially countrydreamer. You are brave enough to say how you feel about yourself. And I feel very sorry for you, as well as myself.

I've been thinking about this for hours now and have just spoken to him. He's in the States on business. He's just told me how much he misses me and can't wait to see me, and how he loves me. And I know this is all true.

I don't know what to do, so currently, I'm going to do nothing. Doing nothing gives me time to think and make decisions without rushing into anything.

Don't get your reply sorry

sorry NH, I didn't understand yours either. I'm probably just being really thick

hi.
this is urgent

thanks for your kind offer of sympathy to me, but,

Do not feel sorry for your DP, therein lies a further trap for you.

If he is indeed like me, he will not be suffering because he thinks he has the power in the relationship. He'll be feeling strong and your sympathy is totally wasted, and you are deluding yourself. ok he might feel a little guilt, or he may not, as a man might feel differently. He's told you the score. If you choose to stay, he'll see it as on his terms, not yours.

I stress - as you really want commitment and marriage - don't waste time on this guy. TheFlyingOnion is right.

Good Luck.

@ CD thanks. I don't feel sorry for him at all. He has bought this on me. I've been the honest and up front one here. I know he feels guilty and deep down I know he's lied because he thinks I will leave if tells the truth.

Apart from this (which is a major big deal) we have such a happy life together. Part of me wants me to "just shut the fuck up & just be happy for gods sake"

Reading your thread I must admit to feeling really confused as to why you set such store in marriage. You say you are traditional and want him to stand up and commit to you in front of others. Yet you are divorced so surely you see too that it means f all. He says it in the moment, even if he says it with truth, it doesn't mean it is forever. The same goes for you. I also wonder why you cannot trust in yourself and the relationship between the two of you and you need other peoples' endorsement? Especially as,at all the second marriages I've been to, there's always been at least one if not more people around the table saying, so how long do you give this one then? Sorry but the way you talk about the dress, the day, the tiara makes you sound like a young, naive person, not a mature woman in her forties with her own business. I don't mean to be rude, it is just so incongruent. This giving back the jewellery also makes it sound like you care overly about the opinions of others. You know that you haven't taken him for a ride, why does it matter what others think?

Also, I am wondering about your dismissive reaction to his parents. Perhaps they are dreadful parents but perhaps they are not and have been through dreadful times with him in early episodes pre diagnosis or pre medication and are confused and protective in their role.

It's wonderful that you are so open to someone with a condition that people can be overly scared of, the percentage of schizophrenics who are violent is very small yet it is so often what people think of. Mental health teams these days are meant to involve family and partners in care as so often these are the people who can tell the early signs of deterioration or need support in helping to manage the condition so it is not unreasonable to ask if he would allow you to attend part of his appointment with him. Anyway, I would make sure you have definitely talked to real life professionals and families (possibly there is a service users' family support group within the Mental Health Trust he falls unders) who understand this condition as priority over worrying about marriage or not. I sincerely hope that he never has another episode again but, if he does, frankly you are much better off with separate finances and a place to go if needs be.

OK he lied about his illness I can understand that, he is honest about not wanting to marry you and I know how that hurts like hell but at least you know. You also know if you leave because he won't marry you and he marrys you to keep you, it's his least worst option in that getting married is less worse than losing you.

I am concerned though about your joint finances, if his condition deteriorates, and it's possible if he stops taking his meds as he feels well, this happens, your money and his money could well be spent.

I am also concerned about how heavily weighted the finances are in his favour, you are in his home, paying half towards his mortgage and everything else without any financial stake in the home. I think you should at least separate your finances to protect yourself.