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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What was your gaslighting experiences?

118 replies

want2sleep · 28/07/2011 19:00

Thought I would start a new thread as didn't want to highlight the troll and still a bit confused?

So when ex accussed me of hallucinating and attacking him and he told midwife and he lied is this Gaslighting?

Or is it when ex told everyone I put hole in condom to get pregnant...the other story it was someone else's baby is this gaslighting?

Or when he told SS I was abusing ds....and found out later ex was actually physically abusing ds is this introprjection (sorry extra question)?

Can others share there's as it helps me understand it better in real life iygwim?

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barbiegrows · 31/07/2011 00:11

Severus - I wouldn't go with the 'stashing' idea of garlic's (sorry g) because in a way that's playing his game. First thing you need to do is decide whether you want to continue living with someone that is hiding your stuff on purpose to confuse you. Second thing you need to do is prove that is what he's doing. Even if he just does it once, you will know and be sure and know what to do next. You could, for instance take a photo of where you left something with the time stamp on it, then a pic the next day of where it was. Don't confront him with it though.

My take on why he's doing this, is not, because he is acting out 'muenchausen by proxy', but because he gets something out of you needing him. To the extent that he will make your life a misery in order for you to need him.

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 00:20

jasper their are many types of abusive behaviours gas lighting/terrorising/scape goat/projection etc they have different meanings...for me it helps me identify if that is 'abuse' or me being 'sensitive' 'stupid' etc it will defo help me in the future...also when I looked on Utube it says how to handle these different behaviours...with terrorising for example one Dr said to terrorise back...with stalking to keep the line of communication open i.e have a spare email/phone line and just ignore the calls/mails...as long as the stalker thinks they are having contact ...it is when you try and stop the contact i.e change number/email etc they get worse....so for each type of behaviour their is a different way to handle them. For me that is useful as ex swings from one behaviour ie gas lighting to terrorising to stalking so each behaviour although yes 'bad' has different rules to deal with...well so Utube says...but that is another thread (not Utube I mean i.e do you scream back using 'mirroring behaviours' when being terrorised? Oheh...don't think I could...but this is what it says!!

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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 00:22

You are absolutely right, Barbie. I was thinking about survival, when the more important thing is sanity. Once you've started hiding stuff to pre-empt him hiding stuff, you're on a one-way trip through the looking glass. I was wrong.

Photos with time-stamps: very good! Is that what the woman did in Sleeping With The Enemy? (Or similar film.) However you do it, the main point is to get evidence of the reality, for your own sake.

This must all look so strange to people who haven't been through it. I wish I'd had this forum when I was married, I would have been walking with a much firmer step.

jasper · 31/07/2011 00:25

thanks want2sleep, I do see that to have a name tag for behaviours might help sometimes and I am glad you find it useful.

I just get concerned with terms like gaslighting, because I have seen debates along the lines of "my partner does x,y,z...is this gaslighting?" and I think to myself, it does not matter what you call it, it's arsey behaviour and it's not acceptable Sad and you are wasting time looking for a label

garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 00:31

Want2 - bullying a bully is usually the only way to stop them (I'm talking adults, not children) but you have to be damn sure you can do it harder than them. My male colleagues told me they'd got my mad boss off their backs by physically assaulting him. It worked for them, but wasn't an option for me.

That's a whole other story, but you're right about needing different tactics for different kinds of malicious behaviour. Until you can identify the behaviour, you're not in a position to identify the best response. (In fact, that's the basis of the self-defence training I was given as a teenager; it stood me in good stead on many occasions.) So, yes, we need the names and the 'scripts' for each type of behaviour and response.

Obviously, most people don't need it because they haven't had the misfortune to be a target. If they think there's no need for the information to exist, though, they're being naive.

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 00:35

only thing is he hides the childrens medicine too....it's like he is wanted to be needed...which is classic in MS by Proxy. It is the 'medical' stuff he is hiding too...why not car keys or purse...you know classic stuff...I do agree he isnt making them end up in hospital like most MS by Prox but very similar...I also thought it was medication ie for blood pressure/diabetes etc (physical illness as didnt know what the meds were for) iygwim barbie I thought for a minute it was a case of she may have needed to go to hospital or GP for meds fast and he rushes to the rescue. It could be a classic personality disorder....I don't know...but sounds very dodgy what ever as messing with medication in house.

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want2sleep · 31/07/2011 00:43

GB so with ex making insulting remarks on internet...do I fight back? It isn't really terrorising though? Actually dont know what one it is!
I know now with HUGE hindsight...if I never changed my email address and telephone numbers my front door would be intact now maybe and he wouldn't have the need to come from abroad to attack...he could just email...I did ask this on MN a few months ago...shall I just give ex my mumber/email.....everyone thought I was mad...I just want a quiet safe life. So is it common for the person to do stalking/gas lighting/terrorising and all the others (not at the same time) but at different times? So when ex put my outside lights out...that was 'classic' gaslighting!

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want2sleep · 31/07/2011 00:46

also GB sorry dont know if you still around now but would that mean someone is targeted more if easy target? Ie single mum with no witnesses etc they go for the easiest or weakest target as they know they can bully easy?

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barbiegrows · 31/07/2011 00:51

but it was sunglasses and deodorant as well but I guess if she has to call him at work to ask where things are, the neediness is the issue.

Keeping meds in a box or in yr handbag would be better and safer. In fact I had wondered whether he was being a health and safety freak for a minute - we'd have to think up a term for that one then as well.

Finally there is the major issue of your trust in him OP. Essentially you are doubting him. My dp is a right pain (to say the least) but I've never mistrusted him about anything like that. Listen to your feelings about this.

barbiegrows · 31/07/2011 01:01

wanttosleep - your situation sounds horrendous and very extreme. If you need advice you can call Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247 - I know you know that already, but would be good to get a professional view on this again. I have done some work with DV and your situation sounds very dangerous as he is constantly changing tack to continue the control. I know I shouldn't say this but quite frankly a team of hefties going round to break his legs, old fashioned style, wouldn't go amiss here. Not sure that WA would recommend this tho ;)

Night. x

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 01:07

barbie unless he got OCD and likes to put things in place...but then she would look there in future...so not OCD as he keeps hiding them in different places!

Hey maybe he got shares in the chemist and wants Serv to use her points card etc Grin sorry coming up with silly answers now when it is very serious! Lack of sleep doing that!

Hey anyone know if the full moon has anything to do with attacks too? I am frightened to go to bed last 2 nights? Isn't it a full moon?

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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 01:12

Gosh! Grin One thing at a time, eh?

Okay :)

Munchhausen's by proxy isn't even confirmed as a real disease - when it happens, it's really complex & weird. It wouldn't apply to hiding someone's antidepressants. It is, however, likely that Severus's partner is moving things around to "make her think she's going mad" - the classic Gaslight story.

Abusers love to do this sort of thing. Even if someone finds them out, they can pass it off as a practical joke (haha). Before I went through it, I used to enjoy practical jokes. Can't stand them now.

By sporadically hiding antidepressants, the abuser knows he will stop them working effectively - thus keeping their target on the back foot in two ways at once: neither properly medicated, nor knowing whether they've lost the plot. So it's important to get a handle on reality by CHECKING THE FACTS, and by TELLING SOMEONE in real life.

Calpol isn't essential medication. But it's important to the parent so, there again, hiding it will cause her distress as she can't calm the crying child. It's a control tactic.

With insults on the internet, I would advise blocking those sites and deleting all contact links with the abuser. Sure, he's doing it because he's getting a reaction from you. It hurts. But don't feed him. If you can't see the insults, you can't get wound up about them, so he won't get his satisfaction.

I agree with the stalking advice you found on YouTube. Get a £10 PAYG mobile, and have your number transferred to it. Make this a phone only for him.

Have your regular phone put onto a new number; tell only your closest people this number, make it clear they must get your permission to pass it on.

Never answer your old number on the cheap phone. In fact, put the phone on total silence. Check the texts once a day if you like, but never reply and never delete them (evidence).

The purpose of all this is to allow him to play out his weirdness, while you get on with your own life regardless.

Do exactly the same with your email. Set up a new one, use your new one for people you want to communicate with. Don't publish it anywhere. Set up a filter on your old email to "mark as read" everything that comes in from him. Again, you can check them every so often but never reply or delete.

Don't try to beat him. He's living out an extended rage at you. It's like a big, scary version of a toddler tantrum. The more you react, the more he rages.
What do you do with a tantrumming toddler? You put a safe distance, then ignore, right?
Same.

garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 01:23

No, it's a new moon right now if you're in the UK, want2 Grin

Here's a moon calendar for you :)

There is actually some evidence that completely crazy, batshit psychopaths do get worse around the full moon. Your ex almost seems to fill those criteria, going by your posts, so perhaps you'd be wise to know when the full moon is ... Use the calendar! Or buy a page-a-day diary, mine has the symbol for the lunar phase at the start of each week.

Seriously, you need to understand that your ex isn't the average abusive fuckwit, he's frighteningly obsessed and bonkers. PLEASE keep in regular contact with the police, update them on everything, and also call Women's Aid. Calling them often could be a very good idea.

Yes, I think they go for targets they perceive as easy.

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 01:24

barbie if I knew where he was...wishful thinking hey! I think people thought I was a nut job in my early posts when I wanted a gun for protection. Funny Victim Support manager who took my case on also said same thing on how dangerous this man is....Lundy book only one page really described ex...3?? (lent book out so cant remeber) but it sent cold chill down my back as it described my situation and Lundy said this man will kill you...I freaked! I believe he is psychotic psychopath so double dangerous...he is a high priest and thinks he untouchable! Maybe I can phone WA...the national helpline is very good and I do feel at risk again...Lundy's book describes men who want to control and be with their partners...my ex doesnt want to be with me (thankfully) but just wants to terrorise me...like a boy pulling wings off a fly iygwim...just enjoying making me suffer? i still to this day dont know why or for what reason? I have at least now stopped asking why as I know I will never know that answer.

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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 01:37

Yes, sweetheart, do ring Women's Aid and ring them often. If the police were that cautious of him, you're dealing with a very scary person. I feel so sorry for the anxiety you must be living with.

I had another think about ignoring his calls and emails - does it set him off if you don't reply? If so, I suggest having a same-old reply to everything (or even a few, to rotate them.) Just make it something really bland, like "Received your message", "I hear what you're saying", "Please stop texting me" and so on. In your position, I'd run this past the cops and WA to be sure you're doing the safest thing.

I really hope you can let your house out and move.

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 01:47

Thanks GB for the dates...4 new moons and 2 last quarters...so I should take a holiday around these dates...wish i could! Thankfully when ex is at his craziest he is in some nutty priest drunken orgy so doesnt attack thenGrin

No I know it is different what he is doing to the 'textbook' abuser/relationship so this makes it harder as not much info around to read on how to deal with it...except disappearing as in all cases of DV.

My ds worker thinks he is just furious as he has no control at all over me..where he has finacial and parental over other mum and threatens her if she dares challenge him like I have he will take their dd and she will never see dd againShock...he is trying to control me with terrorizing me she thinks he wont let up until he has some control.

I have given up on the police. They do not want to know unless it is cctv...ex too clever for that!

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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 01:54

Well, you could try a spy cam! I love Math's expertise in sneaky gadgets Wink

Sounds like the other mum could do with Mumsnet too ... Does she think he'll kidnap her DD, or is she just petrified by useless threats?

Look, if things get worse or don't get better, you could go to a refuge. I'd also say, don't give up on the police. We invested £mmm in a DV program for them. I realise it's a long way from perfect yet, but they are getting better all the time and they will learn if you keep giving them info. (Think of yourself as providing them a service, and they might even respond!)

Are you going to sleep tonight? x

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 01:58

that's it though GB could kick myself as if I knew in 2008 that changing my number/email/mobile it would result in then physical attacks...I would have kept it....he makes sure he posts with his name and picture on forums...so isnt hiding wants me to contact him ?? He says things like he pays for his child and exwife and sees his dc whom loves him etc I think he does it so I will go on and 'bite back'....otherwise why not post under false name and hide picture. He also has kept same email address too...I was thinking of emailing him in February when I was terrified he was going to kill me ...in hope the attacks would stop....cctv has done the trick but he is still doing it other ways...driving past and on forums.
I get a gut feeling he wants to attack and is thinking of new ways with the risk of being caught.

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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 02:03

No need to respond to the forums. He's doing the exact equivalent of standing in the shopping centre, yelling about how awful you are. Exposing his own craziness. You wouldn't go up and argue with someone like that in the mall, so don't do it online either.

garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 02:05

Also, I doubt that anything you did caused his attacks. He would have attacked anyway. It's all in his head.

mathanxiety · 31/07/2011 02:20

'I just get concerned with terms like gaslighting, because I have seen debates along the lines of "my partner does x,y,z...is this gaslighting?" and I think to myself, it does not matter what you call it, it's arsey behaviour and it's not acceptable '
The important thing to remember is that the aim of gaslight8ing is to make you constantly doubt your perceptions and your sanity (and maybe have everyone else doubt it too). That is why it is most important to be able to see right there in black and white on the net or wherever, that you are not insane, that your gut is right, that you are living with someone who is doing something others have done before him and that it even has a name....

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 02:21

His ex was in on it and she was feeding things to him...I think she told him I was scared when I had fake petrol bomb...and when I asked her was ex in the country that day it took her 4 days to reply when it was urgent plea for info???

he said to me several times in rage I ruined his life and when he and wife split up he blamed me? I seem to be the target for all his failures!

You know that chess game with Harry potter and one wrong move and trying to keep ahead...well that is how I feel ...I am a pawn being chased by the bishop and trying to keep 2 steps ahead....I wont go to sleep till 3 am as I know he will have passed if over to see parents. Just a bit scared this weekend. Thanks for your support though:)

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want2sleep · 31/07/2011 02:33

ohh just saw the toddler thread GB very good! So shall I email him my mobile number...what do I say? 'Text meWink'

Grin
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garlicbutter · 31/07/2011 02:33

I do know what you mean about the chess game, want2. The thing is to step out of the game. It feels like you can't, but really, what choice is there? If you keep playing, the game goes on forever ... Walk away, and he's playing by himself.

Math, you hit the nail on the head.

want2sleep · 31/07/2011 02:44

I know HerHissy is always telling me the same! I need the courage to move...it has become my prison. Maybe the CBT will help as paralysed by several factors...fear/finances/unknown/property market/what if he finds me .....his hobby used to be sitting outside peoples houses listening to their telephone calls!

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