DH puts me down and calls me Stupid, baby on the way, how to deal?

[HPonEverything]

I was inspired to post this by the "DP called me a slag" post but didn't want to hijack it.

I have a similar 'problem' (don't think I've ever been called slag though). I get "wanker" and "twat" and more cough endearing ones like "shittydrawers". It's all banter and I laugh and don't really mind. I don't do it back because it's not my style but I don't mind him doing it.

The 2 I really do object to though are "Stupid" and "Shut Up". I pull him up every single time over these. He apologises for "Stupid", but doesn't see what's wrong with "Shut Up". He still goes on to use them the next time. I was not allowed to use the words "Shut Up" when I was a kid or I would get hit, so I never use it. DH doesn't do it in a kind of "oh shaaaaat aaaaap" jokey way which would be almost acceptable.

My real concern about these words is that when it's just the 2 of us it only affects me. However we have a child on the way and what kind of respect will that child have for me if it hears my DH calling me Stupid and telling me to Shut Up? I've explained this calmly to DH and told him he needs to get out of the habit ASAP, he sort of agrees but thinks I'm being OTT.

A lot of it with my DH is that he has self-esteem issues. He comes across as over-confident and quite cocky, but I know he has problems with me being the most, well, academic (sorry if that sounds vain), or geeky if you like, and better at general knowledge, crosswords, that type of thing. He puts me down when we're alone or in company.

It's pretty much his only fault and we're very much in love, so I feel bad being on here slagging him off, so to speak, but I'd really appreciate some advice.

I don't want to start objecting to every bit of banter, or get precious about it, but I envisage a future with a 4-year-old telling me to shut up because it's heard daddy say it to me and thinks it's ok.

It sounds to me like you are painfully aware of the fact that you are cleverer than him, not only academically but in terms of realising that it's not ok to be racist/sexist/mindlessly accept the views of others etc. No doubt he is better than you at other things etc, but because of this you've made lots of excuses for him. He's in AWE of his racist arsehole pal? He sounds like some goofy teenager. Is the friend older/more senior than him in the forces. It sounds like this guy is the real love of his life, having been with him presumably through three marriages.

Note how he doesn't apportion himself any blame whatsoever in the breakup of his previous marriages. OF COURSE he cheated on W1 with W2 - why else would she have been mentioned? If you wanted a divorce would you just approach a random man and ask them to be named in the paperwork, and expect them to say yes?

He's big enough and old enough to think for himself. You're about to have children who really do need leadership in how they navigate the world. He sounds like he's very into hierarchies and so will doubtless DEMAND respect purely because he is the man of the house. He will insist on shaping their views with his racist, sexist ones. How do you feel about that?

I honestly don't know how perfectly bright and nice women put up with sexist, racist, arseholes. It can only be because (as you've more or less said) you don't think he knows any better. He knows better, he just doesn't care. He wants to be the top, by putting everyone else down. If he can handily put down 50% of the population, and a further, ooh, 75% of the global population merely on the basis of their race, look how much closer to the top he gets! It's like magic

HP you have all the information you need. You are very perceptive about yourself, and about him. It is clear from what you say that the two of you are very complementary: him demanding, you with high standards for yourself, for example. Him negative about women who fail to remain thin and compliant, or who are "stupid" in his eyes, you generous in your view of him.

You say you were hit in childhood whenever you said things like "shut up". I would guess that your DH also has ways of pulling you up whenever you do things he doesn't like. These could be very subtle, maybe not noticeable to you yet, such as harrumphing at your plans, denigrating your choices, etc. Do you find yourself giving in on lots of tiny everyday things to keep harmony?

And although it might not seem it from what I've written he does otherwise adore me and treat me well.

It certainly doesn't seem it! How can you adore someone and call them 'shittydrawers'? -do you even want someone 'adoring you'.I would be happier with equal partner and mutual respect and love.

'treats me well' seems to assume he has a choice.

I really feel for you.

Although this is horribly unhelpful, I think your husband sounds absolutely awful. He is my personal idea of a nightmare - the racism is bad enough in itself as it's so ignorant and mean-spirited and nasty but it's also THICK and that's almost the worst part for me. I couldn't be with someone with such ridiuculous, nebulous views based on Daily Mail soundbites.

I really don't know what to suggest as I would never urge anyone to leave a partner where children are involved. Is it worth having counselling to address ?

You can work on someon's self esteem or help them to do so, but I'm not sure where or how on earth you go with trying to change someone's fundamental beliefs...

Realise I contradicted myself there, ie try counselling - but it won't help. Sorry. I just don't want to sound so bleak.

And he doesn't treat you well. He really doesn't.

Wow, what a pig.

As I am guessing that every time he starts spouting his foul crap you lose just a leetle bit more respect for him, why don't you start telling him this?

'It's getting harder and harder to have respect for a person who thinks in the bigoted way you do. You honestly sound as if you haven't moved on from being an ignorant teenager.'

'Every time you speak to me like that, every time you put me down, I lose respect for you. When all the respect is gone, I'll go too.'

'When you try and put other people down, you do realise that you just sound insecure and uneducated, don't you? So hard to respect a man like that.'

'I really am beginning to hate the way you speak to me. It really makes me despise you, and begin to think that you have nothing of value to say.'

And so on.

But to be honest I'd save myself the trouble and years of shit and just start thinking seriously about a future without him. Every single fact you have told us is entirely negative, you do realise that?

Not good at all.

Do you find yourself giving in on lots of tiny everyday things to keep harmony? Yes... but isn't that normal? I am very much a doormat, not just with him but with everyone. I do sometimes wish I'd been a lot stronger from the start but it would've just been a facade, it's not really me. I have an intense desire to be liked, which is pathetic and means I just get walked on and don't get much respect. My mum is the same. I can see a pattern, and as Bejeesus put it, it will end up repeating with my own child unless I man up or ship out.

He is very supportive when other people treat me badly (e.g. my parents, brother, work, friends), the exception being his best friend. I'm not bothered about being adored no, and reading a lot of threads on here then I do sort of feel grateful that he 'treats me well' generally as so many partners seem not to, so I suppose I was a bit misleading there.

Regarding the W1 divorce paperwork, his excuse is that it took so long for them to get divorced that W2 had already come along so she had to go on the paperwork . I 'sort of' bought that at the time but now I'm much more . His family (mum and older sister) treat him like a little boy - the injured party wrt W2 - and think the sun shines out of him. I am certain it would be all my fault if we split up.

I feel so depressed now I am starting to regret posting at all, but I do thank you all for your time and helpful responses :)

Aw OP please don't let it make you sad and paralysed. I think the best thing to do might be to go for some counselling on your own, to talk about how you behave in relationships etc. Look on it as something you're doing for your baby, because it is. :)

NO IT ISNT NORMAL

we have been talking recently about being people pleasers on the EA support thread. You should have a look and see if any of it rings true for you. It would been a good place for you to be I think, if you want to have a look at what is going on for you a bit more

Being supportive of you when other people treat you badly COULD be about making you more dependant on him. It is something that EA men do (I dont have experience of this aspect, maybe someone else could comment) But in any case, that doesnt give him any right to then go on and treat you badly himself

Oh dear, HP, that's why he zeroed in on you, because he could tell you'd be easy pickings as you were so vulnerable.
Of course he stands up for you against other people (except the horrible best friend). It's to make you more dependent on him and isolate you from them.
I used to imagine my XDP treated me well too; I was pathetically grateful for the crumbs he tossed me that I overlooked all the times he put me down. And I didn't know what a decent relationship was like so I had nothing to compare it to.
You sound lovely. He sounds like an immature self-centred emotional abuser.

Shouty I've tried that too (although admittedly not used the word 'respect' quite so much, I will try that). I think given a genuine threat of me leaving then things might turn around, he has quite a lot to lose (I don't mean just me and baby, I mean financial assets, and a lot of face) and wouldn't believe I'd follow it through. I don't want to have to threaten to leave though :(

I tell him he sounds like he's eaten too much Daily Mail - no offence to those who read it - , question his views... sometimes I manage to make him see that he's wrong but it's very rare.

After many emotional arguments about his racism which have resulted in me driving off in floods of tears and spending the night in the car, I now try to remain very detached and clinical about it. E.g. He uses the P word (rhymes with lackey) to refer to anyone of a different ethnic origin, which to me is ignorant in the extreme. When he does it I will respond "but I don't believe these particular people are from Pakistan, so why are you calling them that?". He will conceed that I'm right. I make small victories, sometimes.

He says to me now how much I've matured because I don't drive off and spend the night in the car any more - but it's only because I've changed my tactics for dealing with the arguments. It seems like he hasn't made any concessions.

OP, I'm another thinking he's absolutely vile.

Please, please think about what's going on here. I'd read the posts but forgotten the actually opener; now that I've re-read it I am so shocked that this man is calling you such disgusting names. Those are names you might (if you were really thick) call someone you hated.

There is no way that a man who calls you by these names adores you.

You know, don't you, that what he does shows you what he thinks of you? This man is a racist, misogynist, thick man. You are so much better than him and that's why he's trying desperately to put you in your place.

You say you've been a doormat. Don't you want to change? Do you want your child to think of you as a doormat? So many women on here have said that about their mothers - have you read those threads? Your child will grow up to disrespect you if you stay with your husband. Yes, he may smack your child if he does call you names (do you want that? It sounds inevitable) but your child will still think everything's your fault and that you are stupid.

Get out whilst you can. For god's sake, can't you see that this man is awful?

He is very supportive when other people treat me badly (e.g. my parents, brother, work, friends), the exception being his best friend. I'm not bothered about being adored no, and reading a lot of threads on here then I do sort of feel grateful that he 'treats me well' generally as so many partners seem not to, so I suppose I was a bit misleading there

He really is a controlling personality and he has you just where he wants you.

Don't regret posting-you are only confirming what you really knew deep down.

I think that counselling could help you-you sound a lovely person and need help to get out of the pattern of behaviour you are in. You deserve better.

Every now and then I have to take a break from Mumsnet. And it's because threads like this one just get me down so much.

Woman after woman throwing their lives away on abusive, horrible, ignorant men - I can't bloody bear it!

I need to at least give him a chance to show he can respect me as the mother of his child, don't I? Maybe he just hasn't had enough time yet to get out of the habit. The proof of the pudding is in the eating I suppose.

You've eaten the damn pudding woman! You've eaten it! This is what he is like. It won't get better - why would it? Why do you think he will suddenly have a personality transplant the minute your child is born? Let me tell you something - abuse gets worse over time, not better. Abuse often either starts or escalates during pregnancy or when the children are tiny. This is because you are more vulnerable and dependent on the man and so less likely to leave and because he can't bear to share your energy and attention.

The only direction this is going is downhill. This man does not love and adore you. He does not treat you well. He doesn't like women. Just look back through what you've written. And then get out before your children grow up believing this is how women should be treated.

I would like to echo exotic's last sentence:

You really do sound lovely.
You really do deserve better.
Counselling could help you with your patterns of behaviour.

Being a people-pleaser is a gift; it is a wonderful quality eg. for raising children who feel nurtured and valued, or for being in a socially useful career. Unfortunately, it is also a magnet for controlling-type people. It is often the case that somebody with a controlling parent learns to be a perfectionist, a peace-maker, a people-pleaser as a way to earn their controlling parent's approval. It is then all too easy for them to be attractive (and attracted) to a similar romantic partner; a person with poor self-esteem who has a deep need to control someone else to soothe their own ego. The people-pleaser, out of empathy and loyalty and eagerness to please, is usually happy to oblige.

Does this sound like you?

Does this sound like you? Every single word :( But I don't want to get divorced over it with a baby on the way...

*attractive (and attracted) to a similar romantic partner to their controlling parent

This morning I felt really loved-up and thought I just needed to work out how to stop him calling me Stupid.

Now I feel like I can't even bear to look at him, and I don't want to leave work and go home :(

Have you got anyone to talk to in RL? I always feel sad about threads like this-it starts off with a seemly trivial problem and then uncovers so much more so that the person realises it isn't trivial. I do feel for you-it is easy to sit here with advice but not easy to live it. You could do with someone face to face.

I don't want to get divorced over it with a baby on the way...

Of course you don't.
You want to make it work. Because it would be so simple, so right and good, for him to see the error of his ways, right? That seemingly simple change would get you a happy family life.

I empathise, HP, I do.

But unfortunately that hope keeps you right there in the situation where you are not being respected.

You see the problem. Unfortunately, it's one that only he can tackle (changing his behaviour toward you and soon, toward your child). Does he want to change? You can't make him. He has to want to, for and from himself. And it will be a lifelong struggle, because it is incredibly hard to change behaviour and the beliefs that underpin them.

Talking through these issues with a counsellor (for yourself) could help you talk through these issues. The books by Lundy Bancroft and Patricia Evans mentioned above could also be a start.

Goodness my editing skills are shite tonight.

yy to exoticfruit again: do you have a good solid BFF type person you can talk to, who will offer a sympathetic listening ear and hugs?

You do need some help-don't try and do it alone.

I wish to God I'd left my ex when I was pregnant and never seen him again. Not put him on the birth certificate. My life would be unrecognizable.
Once the baby is born, he's got you where he wants you and it's so much more difficult to escape as he will use the child as a bargaining chip, threaten to walk out on it after the little one has grown to love him, threaten to take the child and abscond, threaten to take you to court re: access, turn the child against you so they are a cosy club of two against you ("Isn't Mummy silly?' etc), the list just goes on.

Threads like this depress the hell out of me. But just to add to the general consensus, he is awful, it will never get better, and I hope you find the strength to leave and then have solo therapy so you'll never feel the need to be a doormat again.