DH puts me down and calls me Stupid, baby on the way, how to deal?

[HPonEverything]

I was inspired to post this by the "DP called me a slag" post but didn't want to hijack it.

I have a similar 'problem' (don't think I've ever been called slag though). I get "wanker" and "twat" and more cough endearing ones like "shittydrawers". It's all banter and I laugh and don't really mind. I don't do it back because it's not my style but I don't mind him doing it.

The 2 I really do object to though are "Stupid" and "Shut Up". I pull him up every single time over these. He apologises for "Stupid", but doesn't see what's wrong with "Shut Up". He still goes on to use them the next time. I was not allowed to use the words "Shut Up" when I was a kid or I would get hit, so I never use it. DH doesn't do it in a kind of "oh shaaaaat aaaaap" jokey way which would be almost acceptable.

My real concern about these words is that when it's just the 2 of us it only affects me. However we have a child on the way and what kind of respect will that child have for me if it hears my DH calling me Stupid and telling me to Shut Up? I've explained this calmly to DH and told him he needs to get out of the habit ASAP, he sort of agrees but thinks I'm being OTT.

A lot of it with my DH is that he has self-esteem issues. He comes across as over-confident and quite cocky, but I know he has problems with me being the most, well, academic (sorry if that sounds vain), or geeky if you like, and better at general knowledge, crosswords, that type of thing. He puts me down when we're alone or in company.

It's pretty much his only fault and we're very much in love, so I feel bad being on here slagging him off, so to speak, but I'd really appreciate some advice.

I don't want to start objecting to every bit of banter, or get precious about it, but I envisage a future with a 4-year-old telling me to shut up because it's heard daddy say it to me and thinks it's ok.

Oh God. Everything that you are all saying doesn't bode at all well.

Especially as I've already tried so many of the suggestions here for tackling it, and it clearly hasn't worked!

I've tried rational adult conversation about it.
I've tried ExoticFruits' persistent "but why? why do you need to do it?" complete with bored tone.
I've tried explaining how it would affect our child, and I've even put forward the scenario of being sent out of nursery for using an insult it's heard at home!

This is another issue entirely but my DH is also a racist - he's very easily influenced by others, his dad was a racist (and spoke to MIL like she was crap). I'm very very liberal and tolerant, and when I ask him "but why? why do you have these issues with immigrants?" he can't really give me a satisfactory answer, it's all just sort of Daily Mail scare story type stuff.

This is something else I've asked him to curb before the DC picks up on it, "how would you feel if DC was sent out of class and had no friends because it has racist attitudes picked up from you?" I think he gets that at least, but if none of this is curbed once the DC is here then I'm seriously going to have to think about leaving aren't I. I can't even contemplate it now with a baby on the way.

Pickgo makes a good point about the older man goggles!

Just to add to the consensus - he is wrong to speak to you like that. If he can't or won't stop, you need think seriously about whether you have any kind of future.

Do you know what caused the breakdown of his other two marriages? Sadly it sounds as if he is a long, long way from even admitting their is a problem, let alone doing anything to fix it.

you cant 'curb' racism

if your racist, you are racist

its part of your core values. Its what he believes is right

Dont think that leaving will be easier AFTER the baby is born. It wont be

I think a lot of it I've justified because he's so easily influenced, like a little child himself really in the way he thinks.

He went straight from racist dad who had no respect for mum, to army at 16 where he was also associating with racists and misogynists. He's never really had to think for himself. For example he's a royalist (I'm not), but he doesn't really know why - it's just because he was army and they had it drilled into them to serve and adore the Queen, he doesn't know what the royals actually do or stand for. Similarly his 'political leanings'. It's no problem for me, horses for courses and all that, but just an example of how he's been indoctrinated into a way of thinking. I have heard other wives of military men say similar things. So yes I have made excuses for a lot of the behaviours.

But back to the original issue - his reaction to me talking about it with him is usually "what I said isn't as bad as you think, you're making a fuss about nothing" etc so yes a form of denial, blame AND minimisation

And regarding the misogynist friend - both DH and I agree about how awful he is to his wife ... yet he can't seem to see that he himself has a similar problem, even if it's not as severe.

Even if he doesn't agree that he has upset you, if he loved you - or more importantly respected you - he would take it seriously and try to change.

it sounds IMO as if you think he is someone he isnt?

You seem to attribute all of this beliefs and his personality to the influence of others?

Do you think underneath this, he has different beliefs and a different personality?

I have a lot of confusion over the cause of the breakdown other 2 marriages, tbh, and what I am about to say is going to sound oh so bad:

DW1 became "fat and lazy", that's all I know. He left when his DDs were 2yo and 6mo which I think is shocking and I've told him so. He claims she 'tricked' him regarding the younger DD as he had told her he was leaving her when he returned from tour and she said she was on the pill. It didn't stop him DTD though. He was pretty young (mid-20s), and he's mid-40s now. I know that people can change.

DW2 apparently cheated on him, a LOT, and I came along while he was in the process of separating from her.

DW2 is named as the....(I forget the word - correspondant is it?) on the decree absolut of DW1 which implies to me that he cheated on DW1 with DW2, but he won't admit this and I don't know enough about divorces and legalities. He says it was just for the paperwork.

Agree with bejeezuz, you do seem to doing quite a lot of twisting so that this grown-up man doesn't have to take responsibility for himself/ the way he treats others.
If it is that he is telling you in private that he really doesn't like the backchat/ racism/ misogyny/ horsing about that he lets carry on in public, he needs to get himself a nice new set of friends that suit his real personality more and dump the toxic idiots quicksmart.
Hope you can shock him into dealing with this and get it worked out.

Sorry for all the short messages - stupid work firewall.

I do do a lot of twisting and making excuses for him, it's true. He has heaps of positive points so I suppose I tend to gloss over the negative ones.

As bejeezus says, I feel that he puts on something of a facade for others, but the name-calling and put-down "banter" goes on behind closed doors as well.

oh dear HPon

have you any mutual friends who knew wife 1 and wife 2?

if not, I cant see how you can find out anything more about those situations. Do you really need to? It seems obvious from over here

what are his good points?

His history, particularly his view of DW1, doesn't just sound bad, it is bad.
His saying "what I said isn't as bad as you think, you're making a fuss about nothing" isn't just a form of denial, blame and minimisation, it is denial, blame and minimisation.

This man is not at all hiding who he really is.

Over the years mutual friends who knew them all have made cryptic comments about his separation from DW1. Wife of misogynist, for example (who is actually lovely) once got drunk and they started discussing DW1, and she said something like "well I thought what you did to DW1 was terrible", as if it was an ACT rather than just numerous reasons for the breakdown, but when I probed further what it was she clammed up and there seemed to be a lot of "let's move on swiftly from this".

I only found out about DW2 being on the DW1 divorce papers when we were sorting out paperwork for our own wedding 4 years ago and I read it for myself. He said it had just been for the paperwork and I didn't question further.

No I don't really need to know more about what happened with DW1. It was 20 years ago. I have asked him what will happen if I get "fat and lazy", will he leave me too? and he tells me not to be so unfair and keep dragging him over the coals . He has exceptionally high standards e.g. of housework, (another military thing) I suspect she didn't quite live up to these with 2 small DDs around and he saw this as 'lazy'. I've met her a few times and she seems reasonable enough (and not "fat", though he will always comment that she is when we leave). It seems like an excuse to me.

MiL has stayed friendly with DW1 but I could never ask MiL what really happened (she probably won't know anyway) as he is a golden boy.

Good points are that he is exceptionally hard-working, a great provider, very sociable, a good listener, very ambitious and always striving for more and better (like me), we both give each other space to pursue hobbies and other friends, very very organised and does more than his fair share around the house, I am sure he will be a very hands-on dad. And although it might not seem it from what I've written he does otherwise adore me and treat me well.

What are the positive points that he has to outweigh this mountain of negatives?

Sorry, cross post.

But don't you have to cross off the list 'a good listener' and 'adores' you? Because I don't see how either of those are true from what you say.

Also, he is really the kind of man you want to be hands on carer of a young child, if he is going to be exposing him or her to racism and misogyny?

Well tbh, it seems to me that he does just enough to keep you.

Is as horrible as he thinks he can get away with.

You have asked him to stop-why doesn´t he respect you enough to do that?

I'm not sure I have much choice than to just have the baby and see what happens and if he changes (for the better or worse!)

If he starts calling me "fat and lazy" for not ironing the tea-towels then I can probably pre-empt what's going to happen next and head it off at the pass.

If he continues to put me down even in the presence of DC then there's not a lot of hope either - is a DC better off out of that environment and in a single parent family, or better off being brought up with a dad around even if he has these kinds of attitudes? I don't know.

The toxic best friend isn't really a MASSIVE problem - they live at the other end of the country so we see them only a few times a year.

I can only hope he tries very hard to stop putting me down (and I will continue to bang away with my own tactics, plus those suggested here, and read the books you suggest). It will at least show I haven't given up the fight. I think that's the only way it's going to work because I can't possibly bring up a child with a man who continues to speak to me like this, can I.

Being adored can have a flipside, if it's being seen as the perfect dream woman: every time the real, fallible human being shows up instead of the dream woman, the person who adores the dream woman can get very angry that their dream woman is malfunctioning (getting "fat and lazy", perhaps).

Hpon - of course he has good points. You wouldn't be with him otherwise, would you? However, having a baby will change things. You will be responsible for shaping the beliefs and attitudes of a new life. His racism and sexism do matter. And a forty year old man on his 3rd marriage is well able to make his own mind up about these things, as well as choosing who to be friends with and how to speak to his wife.

What do you think you can do about the situation?

IMAMPN - yes indeed. I wouldn't describe myself as anyone's perfect dream woman :) but I do have very high expectations and standards for myself. I find it hard enough to live up to my own standards, and whilst I have them then he doesn't really need to set them. But I worry that if my standards slip he'll begin to make demands "you need to lose weight" etc. (btw he's never said that to me, as yet). Similarly if I got ill.

he is not going to stop calling you names

is a DC better off out of that environment and in a single parent family, or better off being brought up with a dad around even if he has these kinds of attitudes? I don't know

this is a question that a lot of us ask ourselves

If you want your son to grow up a racist mysogynist then you are better off staying with him.

If you want your daughter to grow up thinking it is OK to be verbally abused by her life partner then you are better off staying with him. You are her role-model.

If you want to teach them that they dont have to tolerate any form of a abuse in a relationship and respect is the minimum, then they are better off with you as a single parent family

Your home life is the blue-print that they will have for future relationships.

I asked myself how I would feel if my daughter was in a relationship like mine with her father.

bejeezus food for thought - thanks
I need to at least give him a chance to show he can respect me as the mother of his child, don't I? Maybe he just hasn't had enough time yet to get out of the habit, or maybe he has had time and therefore he never will. The proof of the pudding is in the eating I suppose. I don't know, He might surprise us all...

dear god! - im sorry but the day my dh calls me 'shittydrawers' he is out the door!