Please help me see that this isn't all my fault!

[icanttakealltheblame]

Three years ago my DH had an affair, whilst I was pregnant with DC2, and we were in process of moving to another part of the country. It started with emails, facebook, and phonecalls/texts, then they slept together about 4 times before we moved. He continued to be in contact with her via email after we moved (he set up a new email account just for her and she did the same), but her husband found out and started contacting my DH. I got suspicious and eventually found out thanks to OW's DH, who sent me all their messages to each other. Affair lasted about 6 months and probably would have carried on were it not that they got found out.

Anyway, as I'd just had DC2 when I found it all out we agreed to try again, things were great for a while but then I realised that my feelings for him had changed, he had destroyed all my trust in him. I now no longer believe anything he says. I told him all this a few months ago, he was devastated, and refused to move into spare room to give me some space to think, so I gave in and told him we'd try again. Last month I realised its not working, and he has been in the spare room since. As soon as he moved into spare room he looked up OW on facebook and discovered she now lives in the next town to us! He has since set up another hotmail and facebook account, which I managed to hack into, to discover that they have been meeting up, she has told her husband that they are back in touch so he is not happy and her marriage is now under strain. DH has suggested that once all this dies down maybe they can make a proper go of it, and yet he is telling me that he only wants me, he is destroyed by this, and that his initial affair was due to him being neglected by me. He has since admitted he is too needy, but I feel its too late and I am getting more angry with him by the day.

Am I being too harsh on him? He's making me feel really bad that I am hurting him and he will lose me and the kids, but I am trying to be reasonable and make sure that he will see the kids a lot and have enough money for decent housing. I am feeling really guilty and need some objective non biased views on this as obviously all my family/friends (those that I've told) all think I should just kick him out.

Thanks

He's done a real number on you if you are seriously asking whether you are being too harsh on you!

He has no real regard for you or your feelings - this is a terrible betrayal. He is a liar and a cheat and is continuing to lie and to cheat.

He has lost his marriage and his children.

Look, there are two people and two stories in every relationship and none of us are perfect. Maybe you have neglected parts of your relationship, lots of us do at certain times.

But not every man responds to that by being unfaitful - then blames their wife and makes them believe it is all their fault!

Being too harsh on him obviously.

Also ask yourself why everyone around you in RL is urging you to leave him. If he was a great guy who'd 'made a mistake' then at least some of them would be suggesting counselling/trying to save your marriage.

He's making you feel bad while he's on with the OW? He's certainly trying to keep his options open.

You're not being harsh. He's the one who killed your marriage by lying and cheating. You're just the one burying it decently.

YOUR neglect of him??? What about the fact you were pregnant with DC2 and he was shagging someone else? No, it was him that was neglecting you!
God these men really do read from a script, don't they?
He is a real prize, your DH.

"I had an affair because you were neglecting me", aka "It's your fault, you made me do it."

Seriously?

Way to take responsibility for his own actions. Dickhead.

Let alone pleading for another chance with you while simultaneously telling OW that they can maybe make a go of it together soon. Keeping aaaaaallll his options nice and open. Shameless dickhead.

OP? When you say He's making me feel really bad that I'm hurting him: you are the one letting him make you feel bad for him. You don't have to. How bad does he feel about the hurt he's caused you? Not a whole lot, it seems, since he rushed to contact OW as soon as he was in the spare room.

Of course you feel bad about being betrayed, and about the poor state your relationship is in. But you need to feel bad for you a lot more than you feel bad for him. Protect your own feelings: they've been trampled on enough.

God I know you are all absolutely right. I think I was hoping he would just accept it and we could split amicably, but now he is making it really hard for me by doing all this. He is now saying that it all stems from the awful time we had when DC1 was born (was in neonatal for 2 weeks) and how worried he was on birth of DC2, plus he has issues with his mum which mean that he craves female attention. All very well but I am tired of it all now, and I can't be his emotional crutch anymore. I want him to sort himself out, which he is doing with therapy, but its not wrong of me to still want to be on my own surely? It feels like emotional blackmail :(

What feels like emotional blackmail to you? The fact that he is finding excuses for his behaviour (any excuse other than acknowledging his own responsibility for his own actions), or the fact that you want to be on your own?

Don't you DARE let him shift the blame for his complete fecklessness, his betrayal, his contemptous behaviour onto you. How DARE he do this to you?

I'd be tempted to send a wee email to the pair of them tbh, to tell them

(a) that DH (neither letter standing for Dear or Husband btw) will be collecting his stuff in bin bags dumped on the street,

and

(b) you are changing the locks and booking an appointment with the most rabid solicitor you can find,

oh and

(c) the floozy is welcome to him, she has done you a favour taking his lying arse off your hands.

All of that guff he is spinning you about his mother, his therapy his this, his that? All of it bollocks, all excuses.

so he worries his child or his DW may be ill, or worse and decides to take the often overlooked path to resolving it all in a sympathetic manner...... SHAGGING SOMEONE ELSE????? [livid]

Many people go through this and worse and they don't betray their families TWICE

Whenever this dickhead (there, I said it) opens that flap of a mouth of his to you to attempt to justify himself, you have my full permission to stick your fingers in your ears and loudly repeat BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH until he gets the message and STFU.

WRT the emotional crutch, I'd be tempted to put it to good use and beat him to a pulp with it.

Chin up love, be strong, be ruthless and be very bloody angry.

Wow, your DH is terribly concerned for himself, isn't he?
Poor lamb craves female attention because his mummy wasn't nice to him.
What about his five-week-old daughter? Will she "crave male attention" as an adult because her father couldn't be arsed to man up and take responsibility for his family.
What a twunt.
He doesn't get to choose now. Just tell him you want him out. He can go running to OW and get all the female attention he needs and, surely, thoroughly deserves.

Sorry, three-year-old daughter

I am feeling really guilty and need some objective non biased views on this

I think you're being very reasonable indeed, OP. Reasonable to the point of being unreasonable with yourself.

You won't get unbiased views about this here. Why? Because your dickhead DH has engineered a situation which most people would find intolerable. If you want to hear less biased views than those above ^ you will need to keep listening to the snivellings of your DH and you'll get them by the shit-load.

Don't let his mother blaming turn you into a substitute one yourself - he can wipe his own nose.

Wow, HerHissyness put it so much better than I could.

He has betrayed you twice. Betrayed. And he would do it a third time if you let him. Anything he loses, will be by his own hand. He does not deserve your sympathy and your guilt is seriously misplaced.

So he made new email accounts, new facebook accounts and deceitfully met with another woman for 6 months and all of this is your fault?

He doesn't get on with his mum so its your fault?

To be blunt you are being taken for a total mug. You need to think about yourself and your children, if u have sons they will grow up to believe that this is the way to treat women, why not there dad got away with it?

Please for your own sake, leave him or make him leave. Please don't think your being hard on him! My god u have been a queen of patience, I would of strung him up by his balls by now.

The trouble with his mum was the opposite - she doted on him but then killed herself, so he feels like no matter how much love/attention he gets, its never enough. But you're right wisedup, I am not a substitute mother, but he does act a bit like he needs one. I really want him to man up, but he's doing the reverse. I can't cope with all this neediness anymore. I feel much better knowing that you all think I am not being too hard on him at all, quite the opposite! It's just getting that through to him, without me feeling bad when he starts on his excuses, thats going to be hard. Think he might be wanting to 'talk' tonight after his session with the therapist, so I will have to keep all your wise words in mind for that.

And HerHissyness - I actually smiled when I read your post, thanks! :)

No doubt he will be hearing what he wants to hear from his therapist. When I was in therapy she would help me get the thought process into who was to blame for my issues, weather is be me or someone else.

You need to be very firm with him. His actions have to have consequences and in this instance he looses his marriage. What he has done is inexcusable and you must not allow him to justify his problems with treating you this way.

If you can separate his problems and his actions. So for example. Yes he is grieving for his mother however this does not explain his infidelity, they are separate things.

I hope your chat goes ok, be strong x

It's just getting that through to him, without me feeling bad when he starts on his excuses, thats going to be hard.

Don't lose yourself trying to get someone to change their point of view. It will only happen if he wants it to. No amount of effort on your part can change another person. By all means try, but know what your limits are as you go into it.

wow !

just tell him to fuck off

what are you waiting for ?

don't listen to his whining, the pathetic baby

one day he might grow up, but hopefully you will be long gone by then

just accept you will nver "get through to him"

you are wasting your time by trying

let him think what he wants, he will anyway

never

It is not your responsibility to 'fix' him - only he can do that. He is not a leaf on the wind, he chooses to contact the OW, he chooses to tell her lies and you lies, he chose cheating on you.

You don't actually have to listen to his excuses and self-justification.

he, he, glad you smiled! Sometimes humour is the best way of getting though shit like this. If you take this all seriously, it'll really damage, but seeing as HE is not taking any of this seriously, why on earth should YOU? Go get yourself some legal advice, in any event, understand your position, I promise, it'll really make you feel personally so much more in control than you feel you are now.

If this sewer-scum came to me wanting to talk through his therapy, I'd be tempted to jot down the OW email address, and say, Ah yes, my advice to you dear DH would be to go tell someone who actually gives a shit.

I also reckon the therapy is a load of guff too, oh I'm so damaged, look at me, listen to me, i'm ruined, so i'll go off and shag someone and blame everyone I can cos I'm not right in my own mind... I'm in therapy dontya know

The trouble with his mum was the opposite - she doted on him but then killed herself, so he feels like no matter how much love/attention he gets, its never enough.

Well, that's an injury that you can't heal by loving him more. My stbx, almost exactly the same thing when he was a boy. It is an injury so serious which somehow or other gives rise to an unrealistic sense of entitlement in adult to adult relationships. Trouble is, you are not loving an adult man, you're loving the damage done by the hurt at the time. If he fears abandonment by you, he'll act to secure your devotion, or the devotion from a replacement figure IME.

It's no excuse for the way he's behaving btw.

And don't be generous with money either. You have the children to care for. So you should get 3/4 of any assets. Unless they are all your assets, then you should keep all!

He has run up some huge debts, and I was prepared to give him half the equity, so that he can pay off his debts and rent a decent place.
Wisedup, thats exactly it, I thought I was loving an adult man but I don't feel that way anymore, and I am sick of being the only adult. But that's indeed his excuse, that its not his fault, and he apparently couldn't talk to me, shagging her was clearly an easier option :(
And buzzsore, thats so well put, he did choose all that he has done, and never gave me the chance to choose to fix it by telling me he felt unloved, instead he chose to have an affair - he actually told me that he went out looking for it!
Can't even talk tonight as his eldest by previous marriage is here, but Relate at 7pm tomorrow - its all gonna come out, I am determined.