Please help me see that this isn't all my fault!

[icanttakealltheblame]

Three years ago my DH had an affair, whilst I was pregnant with DC2, and we were in process of moving to another part of the country. It started with emails, facebook, and phonecalls/texts, then they slept together about 4 times before we moved. He continued to be in contact with her via email after we moved (he set up a new email account just for her and she did the same), but her husband found out and started contacting my DH. I got suspicious and eventually found out thanks to OW's DH, who sent me all their messages to each other. Affair lasted about 6 months and probably would have carried on were it not that they got found out.

Anyway, as I'd just had DC2 when I found it all out we agreed to try again, things were great for a while but then I realised that my feelings for him had changed, he had destroyed all my trust in him. I now no longer believe anything he says. I told him all this a few months ago, he was devastated, and refused to move into spare room to give me some space to think, so I gave in and told him we'd try again. Last month I realised its not working, and he has been in the spare room since. As soon as he moved into spare room he looked up OW on facebook and discovered she now lives in the next town to us! He has since set up another hotmail and facebook account, which I managed to hack into, to discover that they have been meeting up, she has told her husband that they are back in touch so he is not happy and her marriage is now under strain. DH has suggested that once all this dies down maybe they can make a proper go of it, and yet he is telling me that he only wants me, he is destroyed by this, and that his initial affair was due to him being neglected by me. He has since admitted he is too needy, but I feel its too late and I am getting more angry with him by the day.

Am I being too harsh on him? He's making me feel really bad that I am hurting him and he will lose me and the kids, but I am trying to be reasonable and make sure that he will see the kids a lot and have enough money for decent housing. I am feeling really guilty and need some objective non biased views on this as obviously all my family/friends (those that I've told) all think I should just kick him out.

Thanks

Annie, I accept my slap on the wrist. It was never revenge, I never wanted DH to find out because I know how hurtful it is. But it was a distraction and I knew my marriage was over - plus I had communicated this to DH, although it seems not clearly enough. I think I was so worried about upsetting him I never made it crystal clear.

Had to laugh at you calling me naughty though!

He has just changed his relationship status on facebook, after discussing it with me, and he's now in floods of tears and has gone out for a walk to 'clear his head'. I feel awful, but he left his facebook open and this morning he spoke to OW about getting naked with her... :(
Surely if he was really that gutted about us he wouldn't even be entertaining those kids of thoughts would he? I actually would rather think he's not that gutted, selfishly it would actually stop me feeling so bad about the whole bloody thing

He is full of shite OP, floods of tears my behind!

Has he taken his mobile with him on this 'clear my head' walk?

Yes, he has...

Floods of tears to you on the same day that he sexually flirts with OW? His lack of self-awareness is stunning.

I can only hope his behaviour stops you feeling bad, OP, because this is quite an example of why you really have no need to. His tears are of the crocodile variety, and their sole purpose is to MAKE you feel bad. Try not to give him the satisfaction, please.

Don't fall for any of this shit, call him a liar on every word that falls from that flap in his face.

Better yet, boot him out of your home and tell him to piss off.

Oh, you'd already told him it was over when you had your mini-fling? Stuff him then. I withdraw the slap, with apologies. And what everyone said about the crying.

So now I am sitting on a bench in the street around the corner from my house. He had his first therapy session today, and has filled me in on what they talked about. Me, his feelings about me, what he wants for us, you get the gist. He's spent the last hour basically trying to make me cry because he needs to know how I feel, and my basic response is defence when we talk which clearly isn't how he wants me to react. He keeps telling me he doesn't want to go and he feels like he would do anything to fix this, and I feel like screaming at him but you never actually do anything you just talk!
This is so garbled, I'm sorry. I just feel battered and can't argue or reason with him. He's still making me feel shitty but says that's not what he wants! God I feel like I'm cracking up :(

Oh I forgot... He also had the fucking nerve to compare his affair while we were, according to me at least, happily married and expecting a child, with my 2 hours in a hotel with OM!

I am so at what he is doing to you, OP. It's all about him, him, him; in glorious technicolour and centre-stage, spotlights trained on ... HIM. He is a selfish prick who hasn't even the decency or imagination to see what his current behaviour (let alone past) is doing to you.

He agreed to move out a week ago. I think you may need to become a broken record and tell him to stick to it. Your friends and family have told you you need to get tougher and to kick him out. Could several one of them come and camp out at your house to act as a buffer for you and maybe help him pack? Oh, and they'll need the spare room while they stay so he'll really need to go. Like he said he would.

Of course he doesn't want to go. Why would he want to leave a situation which allows him to cheat at will and not only be forgiven but ask for extra attention and love because he's just so tooooooorrtttttuuuuuurrrrrrrrrred and lonely?

I did PMSL when you said that he cheated on his previous wife because she didn't give him enough support when his Mum died. The guy's got some serious form, hasn't he?

Things are getting really difficult now, and I'm beginning to feel like I can't talk to anyone in RL now either, because they will just start to hate DH. To be honest I am starting to feel that way too. We keep arguing in circles, with him complaining about the way I handle the arguments - basically by getting defensive and saying that no matter how much we argue nothing will change. Do you think I should suggest we go to counselling together, on condition he moves out? I am concerned about his mental state, he is depressed, but I'm also angry that his depression somehow feels like he has the monopoly on being down about this. And I have had 2 years to come to terms with this decision, which he seems to forget, so he thinks I should be sadder. And then when I do have my down days and tell him how distraught I am, he says sarcastically ?oh dear, how terrible for you?. I can?t win.

Also I found out last night that he has posted on a website what is happening with us (in much the same way I am doing with MN) but he hasn?t actually mentioned much about me, and how he is desperately sad to be losing me, which is what he keeps telling me. Its more about how the birth of our DC1 reminded him of his feelings over his mums death, and although he ignored it, once DC2 was born that?s when he felt it was all going wrong. He says I withdrew from him, but that?s about it, its all about his mum, drugs, and the OW. So although he keeps telling me he loves me and doesn?t want to leave, I think he THINKS he loves me but in actual fact just needs me, and if he wasn?t depressed this would not be so difficult, for either of us.

Sorry, I just feel I am going to explode if I don?t get it out! Basically I am concerned he won?t move out and I will end up depressed if I have to stay in this situation for much longer. :(

If he won't move out then for your own sanity you need to. If it is your house and he isn't named on anything have the police remove him and change the locks.

He is really doing a number on you, turning everything round to be your fault, his depression his affair his refusal to move out are all his problems. You need to get rid of him!

For your own sake. And your dc. The arguments and you being down must be having an affect on them as kids surprisingly pick up on everything we do.

Its not as easy as that though, I am still hoping that we can remain amicable and to be honest I am afraid of him doing something stupid if I kick him out, and then I will feel even more guilty. I am sick of feeling responsible for him, but I can't seem to stop! And the house is in joint names, my solicitor said I should not move out unless I take the kids (which I would anyway) but why the hell should I be the one to move out?

If he spirals into further depression whilst in the house on his own it might end up in us having the house repossessed which counts against me, and is a huge waste of all the money I have put into it. I can't bring myself to do it :(

he won't do anything stupid, that is a control mechanism. see it and call it for what it is!

There is a script men like this work to, he is following it to the letter.

Feel no sympathy what so ever for him. Really.

Whilst he's whimpering to you about how much he loves you he's still continuing his affair under your nose. Have you told him what you found on Facebook?

No, to be fair, although they are still emailing each other they haven't met up recently, I don't think since he found about about my 'mini-fling'. Its like once he realised that I had done that, it suddenly dawned on him that I'm serious (as if I wasn't before?!).

So they are talking, and he does know that I know about him saying that him and OW could try to get together properly once this is all over. But he now says he won't do that until and if she leaves her husband, ironically because he now knows how OW's DH must feel! And he seems to relish the fact that he can now experience what I felt after I found out about his affair - although his affair and my 2 hours of naughtiness are widely different in my opinion. But he does seem to want to know every little detail, as he has been trying unsuccessfully to hack into my emails (but I've deleted them all just in case).

I agree with HerHissyness - he won't do anything stupid. He's having far too much fun, playing whatever part he's imagined for himself now. As for the wanting to know every little detail - no surprise there either when I think about it.

He's throwing himself into the part of tragic hero (can't help but see his behaviour as acting rather than anything heartfelt), but he's not a 'method' actor, he can't actually imagine what another person could possibly feel (and hence cannot care what that person feels). So he needs the details, because then he can try and assemble a script that he can work off - I sort of see him being all melodramatic, throwing out "But you said x to him!"

It seems to me he lacks empathy, he cannot imagine how you feel and until he thought he could get some sick entertainment from your feelings he wasn't actually interested in how you felt. Does that make any sense, OP?

"I am sick of feeling responsible for him, but I can't seem to stop! " It's an old habit and hard to break. You are not responsible for him. Kick him out - you know you need to. I even wonder if it would be easier to do if you had friends/family there when you do it, because he would play to an audience! Perhaps make it as dramatic as possible - clothes in black binbags or thrown from the bedroom window into the front garden kind of thing.

I really do think he is getting off on the drama of it all, and that might be a tool that you could use.

Whereyouleftit - I actually think you may be right, someone in RL said the very same thing to me. He does want to constantly talk about it, and he hates when I am not reacting emotionally to what he says.

He asked an aunty if he could go and stay with her a few days ago (after he posted about our separation on fb) and she replied saying she was in London with her sister whose husband is dying of a brain tumour. Since then he's suddenly chirped up, as he realised that he was wallowing in his own self pity. But he keeps telling me about how all his mates are rallying round him, checking he's ok etc, and he's definitely loving all the attention. I have posted nothing on fb, he keeps putting up there about how down he is etc, so no wonder people are checking he's ok - plus they don't actually know whats happened!

Anyway, update is, last night I gave him a deadline of 2nd week in August to move out, as I'm taking the kids away for a few days and he's off so can move out with no-one there, and he actually said to me "you do realise don't you that once I'm gone, that's it?"!!!!

ICAN GUILT is a pointless emotion. we must learn to accept ourselves. Good and bad parts

"you do realise don't you that once I'm gone, that's it?"

To which the only reply is ... Er YEAH, that's what I was hoping for! you lying, cheating, scheming piece of junk

Stop covering for him!

Dare you!

When he has left, Post Oh thank GOD that nasty lying cheat has GONE! parrrrttyy!!

(fake it till you make it...)

don't feel any sympathy for him, he did this, all of it. he chose to bang someone else, HE DID. NOt stand in front of you and discuss any issues, but chose to cheat.

FWIW, these men love to post-rationalise affairs and actively LOOK for excuses to make up to justify themselves - don't let him do that to you.

Ok, so last night he BEGGED me, his last ditch attempt he says, to let him stay. He wants to work things out, is desperately sorry, fucked up, but wants to fix it, going to counselling and his CBT, and being a family in the house together while he does this.

I said that I was happy to do counselling but I cannot do all that whilst he it still in the house. Had a huge row, I then went to my parents (pre-planned), and when I got back he said basically that either he stays and we work it out or he leaves and we don't. I said "right, so its your way or nothing" to which he said no its OUR way? WTF? I went upstairs, he shouted for a few minutes, then after a few more minutes he came up to my room, and apologised. He then spent almost an hour, talking about his issues with his mums suicide, his depression, his sadness and fucking up the marriage and losing me, how I am 'the one' and he's never felt this way about anyone before, and how he got in touch with OW recently to get an emotional connection as it wasn't coming from me. He also said that he needs me like an addiction, which isn't healthy surely?

I feel like its all about him, and unless he moves out and stops relying so heavily on someone else for an emotional 'fix' then he never will be fixed will he? And I can't trust that he's not staying just because its an emotional connection to someone, and it's not necessarily for ME, does that make sense? Plus I need to know that I'm wanting him back for HIM, and not because I feel sorry for him. I know he is desperately sad but I can't keep being the one looking out for him, I want him to look after himself for once.

Sorry, bit rambling, but I'm doing the right thing aren't I? Im scared of making a mistake, even though I think I know deep down that this is the right thing to do, because I can't go through all this again.
:(

Honey WOW! how emotionally robust are YOU?! You are bang on right!

Even if you divorce him, if it genuinely is a mistake, you can get re-married! No such thing can not be undone.

He's panicking, he is addicted to feelings and if he's serious about getting to a healthy place, he needs to leave.

Your post is very positive OP. He came at you, threw every manipulation at you that he could, and you saw through them all. Yes, he wants it his way or not at all. The he turned you into his audience for the next exciting episode of 'Poor Wittle Me', and still you're detached enough to see past it.

Of course you're scared. I always find change scary. But no change to this scenario; that's even scarier.

When you doubt yourself, go back to the start of this thread and read it. Just your posts, no need for other people's opinions/ramblings. Just read your own posts, to remind you of all he has put you through, your own words will reinforce that you are doing absolutely the best thing you can for you and your DC.