Please help me see that this isn't all my fault!

[icanttakealltheblame]

Three years ago my DH had an affair, whilst I was pregnant with DC2, and we were in process of moving to another part of the country. It started with emails, facebook, and phonecalls/texts, then they slept together about 4 times before we moved. He continued to be in contact with her via email after we moved (he set up a new email account just for her and she did the same), but her husband found out and started contacting my DH. I got suspicious and eventually found out thanks to OW's DH, who sent me all their messages to each other. Affair lasted about 6 months and probably would have carried on were it not that they got found out.

Anyway, as I'd just had DC2 when I found it all out we agreed to try again, things were great for a while but then I realised that my feelings for him had changed, he had destroyed all my trust in him. I now no longer believe anything he says. I told him all this a few months ago, he was devastated, and refused to move into spare room to give me some space to think, so I gave in and told him we'd try again. Last month I realised its not working, and he has been in the spare room since. As soon as he moved into spare room he looked up OW on facebook and discovered she now lives in the next town to us! He has since set up another hotmail and facebook account, which I managed to hack into, to discover that they have been meeting up, she has told her husband that they are back in touch so he is not happy and her marriage is now under strain. DH has suggested that once all this dies down maybe they can make a proper go of it, and yet he is telling me that he only wants me, he is destroyed by this, and that his initial affair was due to him being neglected by me. He has since admitted he is too needy, but I feel its too late and I am getting more angry with him by the day.

Am I being too harsh on him? He's making me feel really bad that I am hurting him and he will lose me and the kids, but I am trying to be reasonable and make sure that he will see the kids a lot and have enough money for decent housing. I am feeling really guilty and need some objective non biased views on this as obviously all my family/friends (those that I've told) all think I should just kick him out.

Thanks

he did choose all that he has done, and never gave me the chance to choose to fix it by telling me he felt unloved,

And there's the paradox - love me as a partner should, treat me as a mother would.

You can never love enough or offer the quality of love that will heal this hurt. He will be disappointed no matter how hard you try to fix it - it can't be fixed because the damage is done.

Can you try and access some therapy for yourself?

You just mentioned previous marriage. Was it a similar pattern?

Fuck him off pathetic little boy!!!

Wisedup - I have wondered if maybe I should have therapy too as I'm so angry with him, but I tend to avoid confrontation - as you can tell by this thread.
Eurostar - his previous marriage failed when his mum died - he was grieving and did not get enough support from ex, plus he cheated on her - I just thought I was different, and he treated me like the most important person in the world. I always thought he put me on a pedestal and that's not such a good thing, maybe all this time he really was looking for a substitute for his mother? God... wish I'd been this clued up years ago :(

You avoid confrontation - what in this relationship or in all relationships? Are you a 'people pleaser'?

he was grieving and did not get enough support from ex, plus he cheated on her

There it is again, in his last marriage. Fear of abandonment. This sets you up to fail no matter how much you love him. If you're his equal he needs to bring you down a peg or two, to secure his supply of adoration (and/or he gets it elsewhere as a back-up). If you love him like a mother would, he resents you for not being her and fears you'll leave him too - so he sets up the conditions in which he is assured his supply - an OW.

Some people say there's no predictor of future behaviour like past behaviour.
If you were to have a conversation with his ex DW, I wonder what story she'd tell you about her experience of the decline of their relationship?

Couple's therapy can be really helpful IMO. But so might your own.

Had a huge talk this morning, and he has agreed to move out. It's incredibly sad, but he is not as sad as I expected so I suspect that he has OW lined up, ready and waiting. TBH I'm not surprised and don't actually mind all that much, its just really sad that it ever came to this, as things were so perfect for the first few years. Or maybe they weren't and we just hid things from ourselves for a long time :(

Either way, I'm so glad you all helped me to realise that I could stick to my guns, and that I wasn't being unreasonable - it helped massively when we talked as I stopped feeling so sorry for him for once. So thank you all of you. Now I just have to get through the next few weeks, as him moving out will be awful, even though I know its for the best. Its like a huge admission on failure, and its devastating that my whole future was snatched from me like this :(

He's having Cognitive Behavourial Therapy so maybe he will be able to fix himself before he messes things up again with someone else.

Well done you, you have taken the hardest step which is facing the problem head on and dealing with it, now you have to stay strong and continue to reap the benefits of the relief you will feel from finally letting go.

Have a unmumsnetty hug from me

So she gets the best of him while you take care of his kids and put up with his emotional abuse - this bloke sounds like a nasty, arrogant and selfish tool!

If he'd had a one night stand, realised that what he'd done was atrocious and begged for forgiveness, putting all his energy into winning you back and making you feel respected and secure then I'd say give him another chance.
BUT he not only had an affair lasting several months, he's now carrying it on.

Sounds like he quite likes his bit on the side and the sneaking around and he may well leave you - if he fancies it - but if things don't work out with her then he'll come back to the supportive wife whom he's demoralised and brainwashed so much so that he can hop back without even a shred of remorse. Don't give him the option - he'll realise what he had when it's too late. There's someone out there for you who will treat you with the respect you deserve. This idiot is just a manipulative scumbag - your children deserve a happy mum and I'm sure when they're older they'll thank you for not staying in such a destructive relationship for their sakes.

I wish you all the best - you're worth more than this loser.

Well done for being strong and seeing you deserve more than this. Good luck. In a while I reckon you'll look back and see this as a sad end but also the shiny beginning of a new and better future.

Its like a huge admission on failure, and its devastating that my whole future was snatched from me like this

The failure is not yours, but I totally get the devastation. It is horrible when our dreams fall apart, when we have to put into question what we have.

You didn't fail, though: you loved and tried to make it work. You cared for someone else's feelings. Be kind to yourself.

He failed, not you

I am sorry you have been forced into this this, but i do feel you would be better off without him

Now is the time for you to start focussing on you and rebuilding a life and an identity which fits you.

Try not to beat yourself up though, it's not your fault.

Thank you everyone for everything you've said. I am going to try to take all your advice, its knocked my confidence hard so will re-read this thread from time to time to show me that I made the right decision, and I really do deserve better :)

best wishes x

It's all kicked off again, and this time I am responsible. I know I will get flamed for this, but a few months ago, when I knew that my marriage was not going to recover, I started an email fling with an ex-colleague. He lives miles away, and I did it because I was hugely flattered and it was a distraction from what is going on in my life. OM is also having similar difficulties, is single but lives with his ex and they are fighting over child contact (she has a child who OM has brought up on own, and is threatening that he can't have contact).

Anyway, once I realised that DH was still in touch with his OW and was meeting up with her, I agreed to meet up with my OM on a rare visit back to my old town. Never intended DH to find out, as in spite of everything I never wanted to hurt him like he hurt me, and I realise I should not have done it. Basically DH found out last night after snooping through my phone (as I have done to him). I realise this marriage is completely destroyed, and destructive, and although on Monday DH agreed to move out, and I agreed on giving him his share of equity, he is now very very angry, understandably. But he is basically making threats against OM, and getting really nasty with me, even though it was ok when he did this to me!

I feel completely drained and an emotional wreck, every time we talk he says he doesn't know why he is so needy, and what he wants is to get through the therapy with me beside him, as his wife. I really do not have the strength anymore to be his only support emotionally, i feel like its emotional blackmail and every time we agree on practicalities he starts on the whole 'I feel terrible, I don't want this to end, I want to make it work'.

Really am I that much of a horrible person to be tired of all this now and want out? I no longer love him although I care about him still, RL family say I need to get tougher and am being too nice. I feel so drained and desperately sad, but I can't go on like this. He's making me feel like I am being totally unreasonable :(

Now why would he go snooping when it was already over?

By parting, did that mean he wouldn't be the centre of your world (in his mind) any more, and that just couldn't be (in his mind)? Whereas now he can play the part of the wronged one, hogging centre-stage again? When he says "what he wants is to get through the therapy with me beside him, as his wife", does he mean audience instead of wife (and possibly audience instead of therapist)?

Your responsibility is, for me, considerably diminished by the vulnerable state your husband has put you in for several years now. No flaming from me, just sorrow that he's still trying to keep his claws in you.

Oh, and it feels like emotional blackmail because it is. Stay strong.

He didn't like it did he? Boo Bloody Hoo!

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

He has no right to sit on a high horse and judge you! He has no right to pull the 'We coulda made it babe' speech. How DARE he try to off load his infidelity onto you.

OK so what you did wasn't great, but under the circumstances, pretty understandable.

Tell him to back off and remind him that he never DID own you, and all rights to knowing your business, or dictating a single thing in your life stopped when he started shagging an OW. How is that 'trying to make his marriage work'???

Don't fall for any of this. The least you ought to do is laugh in his face!

"what he wants is to get through the therapy with me beside him, as his wife."

How disgusting! he want you to make HIM look good, by being one of those Politician's Wives that 'stand by their man' when he's been caught shagging half a dozen interns.

For him your feelings, thoughts or pride don't even figure in any of this. what a selfish little prick.

What a hypocrite!!

It is fine for him to go and fuck another woman while in a relationship with you.

It is fine for him to get back with her and start fucking her again the very night he moves into the spare room.

However you are not allowed to?

I am not sure if you had sex with the other manor quite when this was. If it was since he moved into the spare room your relationship is over and you are free to do exactly what you want just like he did getting straight back into contact with the OW.

By making you out to be the wrong person he can play the victim and get all the sympathy. That is what he is doing now.

He can only have a go at you or argue with you or have you thinking it is all your and he is the innocent party etc if you allow it ands sign up to it. Walk away, go out, put down the phone. He cannot engage alone. Or simply say 'no you cheated during our relationship, I didn't' then walk away/hang up.

Look, just stop engaging with him

Your relationship is over, for a variety of reasons that I can see

You are both dragging it out, and hurting each other

Sit him down and tell him you are done and that is it

He would say that he was also in a vulnerable state, as I had shown him no affection for the 2 years prior to his affair. This is not the case as far as I'm concerned, I thought we were great in that time and really had no idea he was unhappy. He says he 'couldn't talk to me' - apparently I either get defensive (!) or angry. Understandable though I think

OP, it doesn't matter what you say to him, he has rewritten history with himself centre-stage as the tragic hero [sarcasm].

"all my family/friends (those that I've told) all think I should just kick him out."
"RL family say I need to get tougher and am being too nice"

Get your family/friends to reinforce yopu when talking to him, i.e. have them there. They can shout him down/help him pack/kick him out on your behalf.

OP, you can't convince him, if he's rewritten history / interprets the last x number of years differently to you. Don't waste your time trying. Really, don't.

I know it's frustrating to be misunderstood and to be made out to be the bad guy. But that's what he's chosen to do, and you can't make him see differently. Yes, it's unpleasant and unfair. But it's the way it is.

Ignore his accusations and moaning, cut contact, and get legal advice.

OP, it doesn't matter what you say to him, he has rewritten history with himself centre-stage as the tragic hero [sarcasm].

Completely agree with WYLI. It's vital you don't allow him to dictate the history of his affair as the consequence of your 'failure'. But don't engage in fruitless debate with him about this, he won't hear anything that challenges his well-honed 'poor me' identity. Take centre stage in your own life and don't give it up. Take it from me, if you do this it won't be long before you know that this is about his vulnerability not yours, and you will detach emotionally.

Do keep talking to RL friends and family, get yourself some therapy in your own right and focus on you.

And keep posting.

I think you ought to get flamed a wee bit for giving the impression originally that it was all him doing the cheating and you waiting hopefully in the wings for him to sort his shit out. Actually you weren't nearly so much of a victim as your OP suggests, as you were quite capable of organising your own bit on the side as part comfort, part revenge (?). "My husband is having an affair" is not much better an excuse than "my mother died" as a reason for cheating. So take a virtual, but half-hearted, slap on the wrist.

On the other hand it doesn't in the least excuse his behaviour, and I'm with everyone else in gasping at his total hypocrisy. He shagged around, not once but repeatedly. While he was doing so, you had a quick one as well. You're supposed to stand by being supportive, like, because he's ill, he can't help it, he's got an addiction etc, but you're just naughty. Pathetic, and he thoroughly deserves to be cuckolded. It's only a pity that he found out by snooping instead of you telling him to his silly face.