Can this be salvaged? Long - sorry.

[Siobhan487]

Hi! Can I just have opinions on whether this is salvagable or not:

DH and I are both secondary school teachers and manage departments. This means we both work long hours and bring home a lot of work to do at evenings and weekends, it is just the nature of the job. We also have two DC 6 and 4. We also have several pets - all elderly from before the time before DC. We have no family support - neither of us have siblings. He has a Mum - who dislikes me and has tried to break up our marriage (wanted DH back at home with her after her husband died - so tried to get rid of me, initially openly and when that didn't work in an underhand way) so we don't see her and my Dad is elderly and although will support when asked is not able to look after children or be left with them. I have been ill for the last two years - have pushed myself on with medication/heavy doses of significant painkillers up until 2 months ago when I had fairly majory surgery which I am still getting over, but hopefully will have solved a lot of the medical issues I was having. It will take me another few months to be at a stage where I have recovered though.

The issues:

1. Every weekend is shit. It starts on Friday night when we seem to go through a battle because we both know we have a lot of work to do before Monday, it is impossible to do the work with DC around - so the arguing starts about who is looking after DC and who is going to get to do their work. As we also both work there is the laundry, housework and other domestic admin that needs doing too. Again another cue for an arguments. DC are wingy and whiny all weekend because they want to go out and do stuff. But they end up spending all weekend being bored at home, because both of us are too busy to take them out - either working or domestic stuff. The nature of our jobs are not that the work can be left either - it has to be done - we both work long hours in the week, as well as straight through lunch, any non-teaching time etc. I like my job, I am good at my job, I don't like the admin/waste of time bits of my job, but that is what the job is now, so to a large extent you have to just accept that.

2. Sleep. Due to the amount of work etc that we have the only way to do it is at night. The illness has made me very tired and run down, so I also fall asleep a lot and can't seem to work through the night as well as I used to. I used to push on through until 1am/2am a few nights a week - get up again at 6am and cope with it. DH still does this - I can't, I try but due to all the medication I end up asleep my head on the desk or in a state the next day that I am dangerous to drive. The DC don't sleep very well. The youngest is often up in the night - we aim to have them in bed by 7.30pm, but it is often later, due to not getting in until gone 6pm with them from childcare by the time we finish work and then several days DC have clubs (Beavers, swimming lessons etc) that go on until 7pm, so by the time we get back it is later, so often is 9pm or later before they are in bed. The youngest then often gets up 2 or 3 times a night. Sometimes they will go back to bed - but need to be sat with for a while, again taking time up, which frustrates whoever is sat with him as they need to be marking or whatever prep they need to do. Sometimes youngest is put on the sofa in front of CBeebies whilst one of us is sat next to them trying to work and majority of nights this is where the youngest and the parent end up spending the night. This means everyone is bad tempered and ratty.

3. Money - we have debts. We are stuck in a house that nobody is happy with - too small, bad area, tatty etc. We have debts so do not have money or means to take out a second mortgage and we are completely unable to sell the house because of the issues with the area, an estate agent said we may be able to rent it out but no chance of selling it for several years. We both need to work the hours/jobs we do, because we cannot allow our income to drop at all, as we are barely scraping by at the minute with debt repayments, massive childcare costs etc. We both have ancient (worth about £200) cars, no public transport - rural Devon, everything is cut back to the bone that can be. We don't go out, we don't smoke or drink. The only money spent on socialising as such is the DC's clubs Beavers/swimming lessons etc.

4. Dogs - We have 5 elderly dogs. Yes, I know we shouldn't have them but they are from before we got together, before DC, - I had 3, he had 2. They now range from 11 years to 16 years, one is blind but has can hear, another is blind and deaf, another has major skin allergies and needs medication to control that, the other two are just old. They take work, time and money. They cost in vets bills/medicine and special food due to illness. They cannot be re-homed due to their age/health. I don't want to rehome them either, they deserve to live their lives out in the place they are familiar with. We commited to them when we got them and that was for life, so need to keep them and look after them for as long as possible. I didn't know that life would end up as it has when I got them. I pay a lovely lady one day a week to come in and let them out during the day which is all I can afford and the other days I have to dash back from work myself to do it.

5. DC - Eldest DC has SEN - we are battling with school to get these recognised. I know what is wrong - I am trying to get it recognised by the school so that they can give him the support he needs. His confidence is being affected by this, he needs time spending with him, I don't have the time he needs.

I am sorry that was long - trying to lay it all out so you can get an idea of the situation. Basically the problem is that we are now both HUGELY angry and resentful of each other. We are both pissed off, tired and sick of everything. We do not go out at all, neither of us has any hobbies. I like to read books, but if I ever sit down to read for a few minutes - I will either get disturbed by DC or DH will come past and look at me and I feel guilty and get up to do a job. These last few weeks I have had to be in bed due to the surgery. He has resented me being in bed, he has made me feel lazy and useless and I have ended up getting up when I shouldn't and doing jobs, driving, running DC around, looking after DC when I shouldn't have been - the op I had takes 6 weeks to get over for a straight forward one - mine was not straight forward - there were complications - I was told I should take 8 - 10 weeks off work and then take life very slowly for another 4 weeks. I ended up having to drive 4 weeks after the surgery in order to get DC as DH was unable to leave work early enough to get them, it hurt a lot (physically) but I had to do it. I resent him for that. I resent him for not allowing me time to heal. I resent him for making me feel guilty about doing what the hospital had told me to do after the surgery ie being in bed. He resents me for not having the time to concentrate on his career. He resents me for him not having a relationship with his Mum. He resents me because he does not have time to see his friends. I resent him for being so untidy and making work around the house. I resent him for the way he is with the DC. I resent him for his moods, for being snappy and unsupportive of me and the DC. He resents me for being impatient and pissed off with him. It is basically just one whole round of years and years of resentment. This means that we are shit to each other. I cannot stand him near me, I cannot stand him touching me, I am too bloody tired and angry. We have been together for 10 years, and have not had sex for 4. We do not share a bed and have not done for about 2 years now - one is always on the sofa with a child. The arguments are the same every weekend. Nothing ever gets resolved, nothing ever moves on. He keeps saying he wants to sort things out - I tell him that he has doen "x" that has annoyed me - he says he won't do "x" anymore, 24 hours later he does "x", I get angry and shout at him, he accuses me of being angry and aggressive because I scream - I tell him, that if he hadn't done "x", then it wouldn't have happened he then argues that he was right to do "x" and justifies doing it and so the argument carries on..... "x" can range from leaving his clothes on the floor, being late home for a meal without telling me, being moody and snappy with DC when he gets in, ignoring me, ignoring DC, forgetting to make a phone call he has promised to do and I have giving him several reminders of....ie not massive things but stuff that just generally causes additional stress to a situation that already has enough stress....and I feel that I am being treated like shit.

I don't think the situation is salvagable. I think that any good feelings or love that we started off with has well and truly had the arse kicked out of it now. I think that the marriage has just become a massive ball of bad feeling and resentment and it needs to just end. I don't think councelling is going to help - a) we don't have the time b) we don't have the money c) it is not going to change any of the situation. I have cried, screamed, been depressed, sobbed, walked out but none of it has made any difference. I am not happy. I don't want to live this life anymore. I don't want DC to live this life anymore... DH still thinks this can be sorted out. I don't see how... can anyone suggest a way please?

Hi Siobhan,

Sorry to hear about your migraine, sounds like you have had it really tough. Did you see the useful suggestions in the thread about sorting out work issues and money issues? Those actually sound like the priority here.

If you can work out how to spend less time working (even prime ministers take time off - it is not worth killing yourself for a job) and sort out the money, maybe with a debt management plan so you're not paying interest, maybe your life will seem more manageable? Maybe you could struggle on to the end of term and then put aside some time in the holidays to think all these things through (and have fun with your children).

OP, correct me if Ive read this wrong, but did you just say that the dogs come higher on your list than your DCs?

Aaargh!!! No!!!! I mean dc come BEFORE dogs!!!! I should not be typing with one eye shut squinting at screen!! Clearly children before dogs!! Oh god, I am going to get flamed now!! I promise that genuinely was a mistake, not Freudian or something..... My dc are more important than my dogs!!!!! I am going to hide in the dark under the duvet again now......

Do not type with migraine.....do not type with migraine.....now emblazoned on my brain!

You poor thing.

Calm down, easy to make mistakes with migraine and everything else going on in your life atm.
If it's any consolation, you are not the only one struggling, you only have to read 99% of the threads on Relationships to realise that.
There's been some great advice on here so far, but when all is said and done, the decision of what to do to change things for the better has to be yours.
Do you want to try to make your marriage work? Your DH says he does, so at least you are not at the end of the road just yet.
You really do need to sit down with him, show him this thread even, then work out a plan of action.

Siobhan,
As someone pointed out, it is very difficult to know the dynamics in your couple. But you seem to be always coming back to the fact that leaving might be easier that staying which, for me, means that the situation must be quite difficult/unbearable for you atm. There is some obvious issues between you and your H and I think it is quite difficult to see whether the issue is coming fom all the stress/pressure you are both on (Then working on reducing these would solve your relationship issues) or actually all the problems you have are coming from issues in your relationship itself iyswim.

A lot of poeple have wisely focused on the very practical side of things (reorganizing your time and efforts). From what you said, I get the feeling that the issue is in your relationship itself rather than outside it. Otherwise, you would already have jumped on all the very useful and practical advice people have given you.

Somebody suggested counselling. I actually think it is a wise idea. In the next few weeks, you will have a bit more slack and time to go and see a counsellor and organize your self better for next year. Do you think you would be able to 'make do' until the start of the hols?
Couple counselling would help you understand what is going on, what stops you from putting all the advice in place or what is going on within your couple that makes things so hard. Then yu will be able to mak a decision whether splitting up is right for you or not.

My last comment would be that when someone is tired, everything seem to be harder to deal with, whatever it is. And when you are running around with no rest, one can get totally exhausted. So my advice is, seing the health problems you've had recently, make taking care of your health a priority. Exams are nearly done. If it means doing a job not as good but you get a few more hours of sleep then be it. Use your hols wisely so that you can recover from this year. And perhaps go and see your GP to check everything is fine (I am thinking possible anemia following surgery, depresion etc...).

Hope your migraine is better now.

Can you make a phonecall to CAB today to book an appointment with their debt people? They might be able to help?

This sounds a horrendous situation. Had it been me I would have quit with depression by now, really admire you both for keeping on keeping on. It does worry me though that these days people seem to be expected - and expect themselves - to keep on working when they should be recovering on the sick.

Just wanted to say I am totally with you about the dogs. They are part of the family. There must be a lot of nice older people with time on their hands who could help this generation of families - reading people's posts in general I am shocked at the terrible grind many have to cope with.

I really fel for you at the end of your tether,you said giving dcs calm and safe home is priority but you may have let work take that over,It doesn't sound very calm atm. Hope you can see light at the end of the tunnel with hols coming upxxxx

Can you find a local 12-15 who could come play with your children while you are there? Someone who would be delighted to get payed modestly and whom your kids would adore? Our neighbour used to romp with our children; they loved him and he would often refuse payment. 2 hours on Saturday morning might be a huge help.

I'm really sorry about your difficult plight. Your marriage doesn't sound irreparably damaged to me, just terribly stressed.

Hi, I've been watching this thread for a few days, feeling really sorry for you and your family, but didn't feel qualified to offer any advice.

Everyone has given you a few suggestions about work and finances etc. but noone has really said anything about your feelings towards your husband and the fact that you haven't slept together for however many years.

Surely if you don't have these types of feelings anymore, it doesn't matter whatelse is going on in your lives? Do you think that if all the stresses and strains were magically wiped away you and your husbands relationship would improve?

Or - tentative suggestion - if you slept together again, might it make you both remember why you are together?

Siobhan, you sound so sad and so stressed. You're worried about your DCS, your dogs and you have a lot on your plate. You should get outside advice. You shouldn't be living like this and neither should the rest of your family. The stresses that you are all under make it impossible to assess the state of your relationship with your husband.

You are making huge sacrfices to meet bills, look after the dogs, etc (I wouldn't get rid of the dogs either, by the way) but you have two central problems -lack of money (due to debt) and lack of time with each other and DCs. So you should take action about those two problems.

You can get advice about reducing your monthly outgoings. As has been suggested, go to CAB. At the very least you can even make an appointment with your bank's financial adviser (I cut my expenditure doing this recently). Deal with the credit cards - try and get advice about clearing them. For starters and advice, Martin Lewis's website is good (there's a good forum) www.moneysavingexpert.com/

Time- one of you, or both of you, should consider cutting your work hours. This is especially important as you are partly working to service 'stupid' (credit card) debt (not saying you're stupid BTW, just hate credit cards). Given how bad your situation is, how little time you say you are able to spend with the DCs, you and your DH's stress with working at the weekends, etc. you have to make a choice. Is the career, the being a great teacher really so imortant to both of you? What about your kids, your dogs? They need your (and your DH's) time. Can one of you make a sacrifice here for the sake of the family?

If you start to deal with the money issue that could help you focus on the particality of working these hours. Once you begin to deal with the core problems you will begin to feel less stressed. Money problems are a nightmare but they are usually something that can be dealt with - get help. Don't be proud and don't imagine becasue you have decent salaries that you won't get help.

Good luck and I hope things get better soon.

Hi Siobhan

I agree your situation sounds incredibly stressful and I'm guessing that because you are so stressed you don't know where to start. I know you have huge finanancial pressures but I'm wondering whether, if you or DP worked a bit less you might find that actually your financial situation would not be massively worse. I have been round this loop many times and have come to the conclusion that sometimes the marginal gains from more work are financially small as you can save money by having more time to sort out things like reducing cost of childcare/ reducing bills/ finding a solution to your dog situation etc.

You have clearly been ill and maybe you could either take more time off sick or if you feel bad about that ask for a few days of unpaid leave. This would give you some time to put in motion many of the really helpful and practical solutions that have been suggested so far. Somehow you need to buy yourself some time and consider it as an investment for the future when ultimately things will get better.

As far as whether you should leave your DP - well I can see that running away from it all is an attractive solution and god knows I have considered it many times myself but in the end I don't think anyone would win - your DCs, your dogs and hopefully your DP would miss you and no one would be financially better off. I doubt you would be any happier as presumably you would be dragging around a lot of guilt (ok maybe not ....)

Have you got a friend or anyone who could look after the Dcs for a day so that you and your DP could go off for a serious talk about how to get yourselves out of this mess. How does your DP feel about all this - maybe because you are both so busy you haven't had time to talk to each other about this properly - its easier when things are pressred to just resort to sniping.

I hope this helps and wish you all the luck in the workd with it.

Ah OP, now I have read your posts about finances, I think you seriously need to talk to your DP about him taking a sabatical. One of you has to give way on this and he earns less so he is the best candidate. If he did this you could save all your childcare and lots more. Plus your Dcs would be happier and healthier.

Plus he may find he likes it. As others have said, its not forever, but it could have forever consequences if you don't.