Can this be salvaged? Long - sorry.

[Siobhan487]

Hi! Can I just have opinions on whether this is salvagable or not:

DH and I are both secondary school teachers and manage departments. This means we both work long hours and bring home a lot of work to do at evenings and weekends, it is just the nature of the job. We also have two DC 6 and 4. We also have several pets - all elderly from before the time before DC. We have no family support - neither of us have siblings. He has a Mum - who dislikes me and has tried to break up our marriage (wanted DH back at home with her after her husband died - so tried to get rid of me, initially openly and when that didn't work in an underhand way) so we don't see her and my Dad is elderly and although will support when asked is not able to look after children or be left with them. I have been ill for the last two years - have pushed myself on with medication/heavy doses of significant painkillers up until 2 months ago when I had fairly majory surgery which I am still getting over, but hopefully will have solved a lot of the medical issues I was having. It will take me another few months to be at a stage where I have recovered though.

The issues:

1. Every weekend is shit. It starts on Friday night when we seem to go through a battle because we both know we have a lot of work to do before Monday, it is impossible to do the work with DC around - so the arguing starts about who is looking after DC and who is going to get to do their work. As we also both work there is the laundry, housework and other domestic admin that needs doing too. Again another cue for an arguments. DC are wingy and whiny all weekend because they want to go out and do stuff. But they end up spending all weekend being bored at home, because both of us are too busy to take them out - either working or domestic stuff. The nature of our jobs are not that the work can be left either - it has to be done - we both work long hours in the week, as well as straight through lunch, any non-teaching time etc. I like my job, I am good at my job, I don't like the admin/waste of time bits of my job, but that is what the job is now, so to a large extent you have to just accept that.

2. Sleep. Due to the amount of work etc that we have the only way to do it is at night. The illness has made me very tired and run down, so I also fall asleep a lot and can't seem to work through the night as well as I used to. I used to push on through until 1am/2am a few nights a week - get up again at 6am and cope with it. DH still does this - I can't, I try but due to all the medication I end up asleep my head on the desk or in a state the next day that I am dangerous to drive. The DC don't sleep very well. The youngest is often up in the night - we aim to have them in bed by 7.30pm, but it is often later, due to not getting in until gone 6pm with them from childcare by the time we finish work and then several days DC have clubs (Beavers, swimming lessons etc) that go on until 7pm, so by the time we get back it is later, so often is 9pm or later before they are in bed. The youngest then often gets up 2 or 3 times a night. Sometimes they will go back to bed - but need to be sat with for a while, again taking time up, which frustrates whoever is sat with him as they need to be marking or whatever prep they need to do. Sometimes youngest is put on the sofa in front of CBeebies whilst one of us is sat next to them trying to work and majority of nights this is where the youngest and the parent end up spending the night. This means everyone is bad tempered and ratty.

3. Money - we have debts. We are stuck in a house that nobody is happy with - too small, bad area, tatty etc. We have debts so do not have money or means to take out a second mortgage and we are completely unable to sell the house because of the issues with the area, an estate agent said we may be able to rent it out but no chance of selling it for several years. We both need to work the hours/jobs we do, because we cannot allow our income to drop at all, as we are barely scraping by at the minute with debt repayments, massive childcare costs etc. We both have ancient (worth about £200) cars, no public transport - rural Devon, everything is cut back to the bone that can be. We don't go out, we don't smoke or drink. The only money spent on socialising as such is the DC's clubs Beavers/swimming lessons etc.

4. Dogs - We have 5 elderly dogs. Yes, I know we shouldn't have them but they are from before we got together, before DC, - I had 3, he had 2. They now range from 11 years to 16 years, one is blind but has can hear, another is blind and deaf, another has major skin allergies and needs medication to control that, the other two are just old. They take work, time and money. They cost in vets bills/medicine and special food due to illness. They cannot be re-homed due to their age/health. I don't want to rehome them either, they deserve to live their lives out in the place they are familiar with. We commited to them when we got them and that was for life, so need to keep them and look after them for as long as possible. I didn't know that life would end up as it has when I got them. I pay a lovely lady one day a week to come in and let them out during the day which is all I can afford and the other days I have to dash back from work myself to do it.

5. DC - Eldest DC has SEN - we are battling with school to get these recognised. I know what is wrong - I am trying to get it recognised by the school so that they can give him the support he needs. His confidence is being affected by this, he needs time spending with him, I don't have the time he needs.

I am sorry that was long - trying to lay it all out so you can get an idea of the situation. Basically the problem is that we are now both HUGELY angry and resentful of each other. We are both pissed off, tired and sick of everything. We do not go out at all, neither of us has any hobbies. I like to read books, but if I ever sit down to read for a few minutes - I will either get disturbed by DC or DH will come past and look at me and I feel guilty and get up to do a job. These last few weeks I have had to be in bed due to the surgery. He has resented me being in bed, he has made me feel lazy and useless and I have ended up getting up when I shouldn't and doing jobs, driving, running DC around, looking after DC when I shouldn't have been - the op I had takes 6 weeks to get over for a straight forward one - mine was not straight forward - there were complications - I was told I should take 8 - 10 weeks off work and then take life very slowly for another 4 weeks. I ended up having to drive 4 weeks after the surgery in order to get DC as DH was unable to leave work early enough to get them, it hurt a lot (physically) but I had to do it. I resent him for that. I resent him for not allowing me time to heal. I resent him for making me feel guilty about doing what the hospital had told me to do after the surgery ie being in bed. He resents me for not having the time to concentrate on his career. He resents me for him not having a relationship with his Mum. He resents me because he does not have time to see his friends. I resent him for being so untidy and making work around the house. I resent him for the way he is with the DC. I resent him for his moods, for being snappy and unsupportive of me and the DC. He resents me for being impatient and pissed off with him. It is basically just one whole round of years and years of resentment. This means that we are shit to each other. I cannot stand him near me, I cannot stand him touching me, I am too bloody tired and angry. We have been together for 10 years, and have not had sex for 4. We do not share a bed and have not done for about 2 years now - one is always on the sofa with a child. The arguments are the same every weekend. Nothing ever gets resolved, nothing ever moves on. He keeps saying he wants to sort things out - I tell him that he has doen "x" that has annoyed me - he says he won't do "x" anymore, 24 hours later he does "x", I get angry and shout at him, he accuses me of being angry and aggressive because I scream - I tell him, that if he hadn't done "x", then it wouldn't have happened he then argues that he was right to do "x" and justifies doing it and so the argument carries on..... "x" can range from leaving his clothes on the floor, being late home for a meal without telling me, being moody and snappy with DC when he gets in, ignoring me, ignoring DC, forgetting to make a phone call he has promised to do and I have giving him several reminders of....ie not massive things but stuff that just generally causes additional stress to a situation that already has enough stress....and I feel that I am being treated like shit.

I don't think the situation is salvagable. I think that any good feelings or love that we started off with has well and truly had the arse kicked out of it now. I think that the marriage has just become a massive ball of bad feeling and resentment and it needs to just end. I don't think councelling is going to help - a) we don't have the time b) we don't have the money c) it is not going to change any of the situation. I have cried, screamed, been depressed, sobbed, walked out but none of it has made any difference. I am not happy. I don't want to live this life anymore. I don't want DC to live this life anymore... DH still thinks this can be sorted out. I don't see how... can anyone suggest a way please?

shesgotherlipstickon is right. That is how you come across.

the lady who lets the dogs out.. could you get someone to come and do some cleaning instead? (who can open the door and let the dogs out at the same time). Small steps..

I can't help but agree with she .The dogs are not worth risking the dc and dh hapiness for, You are not taking any notice of people who are looking at your situation with untired, un stressed brains. Whatever someone suggests you say you cant . You can you just choose not to.Whats the point of putting your lifetimes effort for other peoples kids and having your own at home so stressed they have to sleep on settee to get some attention and hear rows all weekend. put your own family first. If you stop or downsize work so you can do your own childcare you will save a fortune, the stress will drop like a stone and life could be good. Sounds as if you resent dh for living!! you are determined that you shouldn't 'have to' because you enjoy work but think about at what cost. I think whether you stay married or not is irrelevent. I think you have to sort out work first and get over the idea you have a right to it at the cost of everything else.And please take care of yourself. Get some more sick time off work.

Look, something has to give. You've decided that it's your marriage.

To me that sounds like the least productive course you could pick in terms of reducing your workload/financial issues.

Other posters have pointed out that it doesn't have to be DH that you ditch.

You could get rid of your dogs (or at least DH's, if he feels less strongly that you). You could consolidate your debts into one easy monthly repayment (yes you'll end up paying more in the end but at least you'll have more free cash now). You could reduce your work commitments.

Of course it's up to you in the end. Just don't be so blinkered as to reject all other options out of hand.

I am a teacher HOD with 3 children aged 13, 10 and 2 and a husband (lawyer) who works in London and is wonderful but no help at all during the week and often at the weekend due to deadlines etc that take precedence. OK, money is not so much an issue for us, but we do have to look at how to make things stretch and as the children get older, school trips, clubs etc get much more expensive, but I do get where you are coming from on this. What I don't understand is how two HOD's are earning so little money - full time, I would be taking home after tax about 1800-1900 pcm. If the pair of you are on even say 1700 that is a fair whack, where is it going? If you are not, then are you being underpaid?

Also, yes, good teachers do work long hours, but you need to carefully file all your worksheets etc and save lesson plans and powerpoints into folders religiously to be brought out again next year with minimal alterations. I put MY children first; I work a maximum of 3 nights a week, to 10pm only at home. I stay at school to 6pm on two nights per week and I avoid working at the weekend unless it is exam time or year 12/13 essays. I don't get paid enough to justify working any more than that. I plan well in advance and set one piece of written work per topic per group ( I am a French teacher), I set a weekly vocab. test (they mark it) and short, easily marked listening, reading and speaking tests for each topic. That is it! The department I manage gets among the best GCSE and A level results in the country (80% A-A at GCSE and about 50-60% A-A at A/S A2). My former HOD used to say to the pupils when they asked what they would get 'you will get what you deserve!'. Our responsibility is to teach them and give them the tools to learn, but we cannot learn it for them. Let go of that weight the pair of you and you will feel so much better!

Don't throw away a marriage over pressures like this; try talking without accusing, try apologising yourself first and saying ' would you like a lie-in on Saturday and I will take the children to the park?" My DH and I take it in turns to lie-in at the weekend and it does your soul so much good to have an extra hour. Then plan when you will work and what does not get done does not get done.

Good luck

Have you actually added up the extra, out-of-work hours you each put, on a weekly basis to see what is really needed?

Really, if you are working into the early hours on a regular basis (several times a week), plus giving up your weekends also on a regular (weekly?) basis, something is very wrong. That could be the school taking advantage of you (both of you?), problems with your time management skills, or maybe using work as an excuse to be 'busy' and avoid interacting with each other in any kind of meaningful way.

Sorry to sound harsh, I guess it's easy to make comments and judgements as an outsider.

I think, by the responses you have made to the advice on here, that you want out of the marriage and want to justify it. You don't seem prepared to consider any of the other suggestions posters are making - or come up with long reasons why changes can't be made in that particular area.

Nothing would be more important to me than my children or my marriage: I would consider that if they were secure, we would work everything else out from there. I would give up work to secure that; I would give up pets to secure that.

Frankly, your priorities seem to be your job and your dogs since they seem to be the two things you are least prepared to compromise on. I understand that your debts must be huge (DH and I are on teaching salaries - one management, one 0.4 - and we make enough to live very comfortably on, so if you are bringing in two management salaries and are struggling...) but you need to find ways of consolidating them and arranging a payment plan so that one of you can reduce their hours significantly.

The DC will know they are being neglected and that they are not your priority and that is not healthy for them. One of you needs to put them first and reduce your hours.

As the PP has said, something has to give as you can't go on like this.

You seem to have convinced yourself that this is an impossible situation and nothing anyone has suggested is a viable option. I do sympathise as I can be the same.

If you worked less hours, surely you'd be paying for less childcare? One of the reasons I work p/t is that if I worked full time, I would have to pay for two days full childcare and also would have to start paying my student loan back - I'd actually make a loss on working full time. Three days instead of five would mean much of your youngest's childcare would be funded hours.

When does your youngest start school - if he's four, that must be September? That will surely make a difference financially? You could spend the money on a cleaner or more dog walking.

Are you absolutely sure that nowherw will rehome your dogs? I'm sure I recall an advert for The Dog's Trust that said they never put a healthy dog down?

I'm sorry to keep on at you, it's just I really feel for your situation and want to help!

My dogs were my children before DC if you see what I mean. I know they are dogs and not children. I know I should never have got them - but I didn't know I would meet DH and have DC back then, I had concluded that I was on my own for life after a ghastly ex. I was single at that point, lived on my own and I loved dogs, so that is how I spent my free time and my money on them, I could afford it, it was never an issue. After we got together again, it was fine. Money was ok, not rich but again fine - he wasn't a teacher - he was not well paid then. It is 7 years of childcare and two maternity leaves when I was the major wage earner that has totally knackered us. 5 years with the two children in childcare has been the worst bit. I have explained the money - I therefore do not get what the is all about. 2 of the dogs are his - not mine anyway, but I am not going to have any of them put down unless they are in pain. If they were children from a previous relationship, nobody would tell us to get rid of them, you don't re-home your kids when things get rough, so I am not prepared to do that to my dogs and I am sure that DH is the same about his. They are not in pain, they are not suffering, they are just old. If they were in pain, obviously I would not prolong it, but you can't get rid of something you are responsible for because it isn't convenient anymore. I am sure I am going to get some crappy looks here but if it comes to the choice between DH and the dogs, it would be DH that would go. However, the point is DH does not want to get rid of them either - that is not a bone of contention. The resentment is not about the dogs.

Splitting would not help financially. It would just take away the irritating things he does, the stress of him being annoying and the arguments.

I need to know if there is away to let the resentments go, is there a way to stop the continuous bickering over whose work is a priority.

It is not helpful to keep telling me that my DC are losing out here - I KNOW THAT - that is why I am trying to find a solution! Making me feel even shittier about how I am managing things is not going to help. Do you think could feel any worse about this, really do you think I could? Do you think I don't hate myself for not coping, for not giving them the perfect bloody life they deserve! Do you think I don't know I am failing? I feel responsible for the DC AND the dogs - I don't know how to cope anymore, I am running myself into the ground trying to keep everything going, to keep all these bloody balls into the air. I KNOW it's not working, I am talking to you to try and see if there is a way that it can work. I am sorry, I know some of you are really trying to help and are giving some really thoughtful suggestions and have given up your time to do that and I am here venting at you... I just don't know what to do...

then give up. You can't make it work by killing yourself so take a day off work and catch up. Say you are ill, take two days! Remember I'm a teacher, so I know you'll have to set cover, DO IT! Sort out the marking and the house and then enjoy the weekend. Don't feel guilty because DH is not taking time off, you are doing it for you. Put yourself first and you will be the better teacher, wife and mother for it!

I really think you need to get signed off for a bit, and have a bit of head space to think about where you need to go from here.

Sorry OP, but you do come across as very defensive. The situation does sound shitty, but even setting aside the matter of your relationship with your dh, am stunned that you are putting work and dogs above your kids and self.

Surely there are corners that could be cut at work for you and dh? Or a demotion or job move once your youngest is in school (when childcare costs should reduce).

Agree with others that sounds like you need some time off work (sick).

To be honest it doesn't sound like you're that fussed about the shitty life your dc's have, but you are bothered about the dogs.

I'm shocked that you never do anything with your dc's on a weekend, that is just sad and I feel desperately sorry for them.
Surely one of you could take them out on a Saturday and one on a Sunday.

There is no job on this earth that you have to work every spare minute.
And no job is worth giving your dc's a miserable childhood.

Siobhan, can I ask you whether you're teaching any A2 or GCSE classes who have not sat their exams? AS have finished now. Any other year group doesn't matter at the moment.

If you are not teaching A2 or GCSE students, then I think you should ask your husband to phone up your line manager and tell him/her that you won't be in, that you are not well.

In the morning, go to the doctor and insist that you are signed off work until September.

You are not well. You are incredibly stressed. You are working with children and if someone crosses you at school there is a chance you will lose it.

When you are off work, go to the CAB and speak to them about your debt. You shouldn't be living at that level. Tell them you are about to have a breakdown - yes, be honest with them - and they will sort it out for you. Credit card companies etc don't want you to go bankrupt as they'll lose everything you owe them.

Please, help yourself by doing this. We can all see the immense stress you are under. We know what we're talking about here - we have all been a whisper away from losing it at some point in our lives.

You will feel so much better if you don't have to go to work for a few months. You will feel so much better if you can stop paying extortionate interest rates.

Don't make a decision on leaving your husband until you have sorted out the money and had some time off work.

Can you look at the way you work? Are there tasks other people in the department could be doing for you? Or do you find it hard to let go of tasks and responsibilities? Are you giving department members enough opportunities to develop new skills and challenges (ie do some aspects of your job) or do you micro-mamange them too much. How many hours contact time do you have? Can that be reduced at the moment while your health is recovering?

I really think you need to look at the way you work effectively at the school- who manages you and can you talk to them about this? Because if you can work at ways you are reducing the amount of work you do at home then this will obviously help reduce the stress.

My H who is an HOD tends to go into work and be there at 7.30am so he can get work done in a quiet place but then he doesn't have to worry about getting the kids anywhere as you do. I wonder if maybe one day a week DH could do this for you - and or he could do the same so he could do some tasks in the evening.

Shesgotlipstickon that is the most unhelpful post I've ever read. Can't you see the distress she's in? Telling her she's mad is not helping.

I think that when people are under a lot of stress, they don't work in the most efficient way.

Can people not see that she's at breaking point and can really do without people saying she's crazy to talk like that about the dogs?

The way I see it, you are the only one here getting what you want, even though it's not making you happy. You want your full time job because you enjoy it, you want the dogs, no matter the cost because you have loyalties, you want your health issues to magically disappear without cutting back, you want your kids, that you brought into the world, to cope with bare minimum attention, you want to resolve all your issues without realistically looking to make meaningful changes.

Think about this. This is your life, you created it, now it doesn't suit, fine. Shit happens to us all. But the children didn't create this chaos. They need you now to make hard choices. If I were you I would be contacting Consumer Credit Counselling service, consolodating your debts and going part time. As another poster said, the children won't be children for long, meanwhile you will spend it with strangers children and your marriage gone. Or perhaps your dh can go part time, after all, he is the newer teacher of the two, why shouldn't your long career count for something? But something has to give. Leave this any longer and it might be a moot point anyway. Health problems have a habit of making decisions for us.

I hope you can make the changes you need to be happy.

Having read the whole thread I think you have already given up on your marriage and family life. Splitting and having to pay a 2nd lot of rent/ mortgage will cripple you further financially surely? No matter how much I loved my job and my pets, my family would come first but it sounds like you don't want to make the relationship work any more. Do you really think you'll be able to cope better as a single parent? I agree with shesgotherlipstickon. In short, there isn't a way you can keep juggling. Something has to give. You may not like any of your options but you have to choose the lesser of two evils. (IMO getting rid of dogs is lesser than getting rid of DH, but each to their own...)

She needs to sort out her finances before getting rid of her husband.

All I can think to say atm is that your DH can still have a relationship with his mother, you don't have too.

Sorry I realise my post came across as harsh - get signed off work first thing in the morning, give yourself time to think and don't make any major decisions until you are feeling more calm. Whilst you're off, sort out some kind of debt management programme, look into whether it's possible to reduce your mortgage or switch to interest only for a time. It does sound like you need to be signed off til September.

I agree with you, twolittlemonkeys.

And yes, FAB, her husband can go to see his mum on his own or with the kids. There's no reason why the OP should be burdened with a MIL who dislikes her on top of everything else.

OP, just re-read the start when you say how much you're both working at the weekend.

At this time of year, surely it does get easier? Aren't most exams out of the way?

Could you not insist that neither of you works on Friday night? Make it a fun night with home made pizza and television or board games or something for the children.

You and your husband need to have at least one evening a week when you can relax.