The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Head To The Summer Of Sobriety

[Mouseface]

Hello

I'm Mouse

Welcome aboard The Brave Babe's Battle Bus. There are a whole host of lovely posters here who will support your journey to sobriety, however you choose to get there.

We are a Bus full of drinkers, non-drinkers and those who are somewhere in between.

BUT - we will never judge or leave a poster out in the cold. So, find a seat and settle down for the journey ahead.

And HERE is the last thread and those before it too. Just follow the links to read the journeys so far.

Very giddy but a bit nervous in case the weather is bad. I have been when it rained so much lots of tents flooded and still enjoyed it but don't think my DC's will feel the same although my DD does love the female urinals. Hopefully she won't tell her class about it in show and tell like she did last time!

at your DD and Show and Tell!

Hello all. I've been thinking about this for a while. My mother is a recovering alcoholic (10 years sober - go Ma..) So I should be aware of the danger signs. Loving the thought of this bus.....

I can't remember the last evening I didn't have a drink. I never drink at any other time of day. I get twitchy if there isn't 'enough' wine in the house - (what if dh decides he wants some?) I avoid anything that interferes with my drinking habits and I must have the edge taken off every night. I don't ever get annihilated, but usually have at least 3/4 of a bottle every night without fail. I have two children under 5, 2 stepchildren and a full time job (no excuse I know). Is it time to go along to the meetings do we think?

"I would like to caution parents though about minors/teens attending
AA or NA. There are no background checks done on anyone within the groups."

Of course there aren't - it's anonymous! Mind you, I understand that one could say the same thing about most churches, social clubs and working men's clubs - indeed, anywhere primarily targeted at adults with a common interest that does not directly relate to children.

"Many minors have been sexually assaulted and even murdered after getting involved with people they have met at AA/NA." I've been in AA nearly 10 years, attending meetings across the whole of the UK and even abroad, and have never heard or seen this happen even once. Define "many".

"Also -please do not take your young children to meetings either.They are not emotionally equipped to hear the stories of addiction from other members." I think this is a given. some people take their babies because they have no babysitters - but 4 is pretty much the oldest you can get away with, and everyone involved is very aware of this. At that age, too, they could break a member's anonymity if they met in the street so it is as much self-interest for the adults as protection of the infants.

"Many sexual predators attend these meetings."

Define many. Again, not in my experience.

"Because it is an anonymous group they do not have to disclose this." See above - why would they?

"Many children have suffered at the hands of boyfriends Moms have hooked up with at these meetings." Define many. also, AA itself warns against relationships in AA, especially amongst new and vulnerable members. (New members are typically advised not to have a relationship AT ALL for the first year!) Anyone ignoring this advice is perhaps not thinking straight. It is hardly AA's fault, is it?

"The men get close to the Mom and gain their trust.Then sexually assault or rape the children. This is all factual." This happens in night clubs, working men's clubs, and all sorts of other settings on a regular basis. Why pretend that AA is particularly susceptible to it?

"Plus AA or NA does nothing about these pervasive problems." What would you suggest they do? Suggest people avoid relationships with people they don't know well and keep children away from meetings for adults? Oh, hang on - that is already standard advice.

"There are much safer alternatives to choose from than a 12 step program." Are there? What are they? In what way are they "safer" and for whom?

purplebrickroad - you've managed to completely side-step Mouse's quite relevent questions (again) . I'd be quite interested to hear more about you, rather than read your incessant and often quite irrelevant banging of the same, tired old drum!

The poster who first raised this issue of possible abuse within AA meetings was politely thanked for her post and was hopefully reassured that there's no one here that is even considering taking a minor to an AA meeting. So why you continue to go on and on, showing your more than obvious intolerance for anything AA is making you look a tad unhinged, I'm afriad to say.

Hello to everyone else waves. I picked up last night; had 3 cans of beer but decided I needed to stop, so brushed my teeth and went to bed with a pint of water. Woke up cross with myself and feeing like my guts had been put through a mangle. Was pleased I'd stopped when I did though - seems as if nearly 3 weeks off the drink has lowered my tolerance.

Don't fancy a repeat performance tomorrow morning though so today I won't be drinking. I'd allowed a stressful week to convince me I needed a drink last night, but can't say I feel any less stressed out today!

Congratulations Zany on the new house!

Apologies for shit spelling!

Hello Lakelover

Hope you stick around on the bus - it's a very suuportive place and hopefully someone will be along to answer your question about attending meetings. I've not been to one but will never say never, however don't really know much about them!

Thanks wasonce, its not a new house but as of today I will have paid my XH for his share of the house so that the deeds are in my name only. Been really hard to sort out since we split 4 years ago and he was against it at first as he didn't think it was fair of me to stay here. We live within a few minutes walk of the DC's school, a very good secondary school and my parents who my DC's are really close to. It will be a struggle but my son in particular has been very upset/unsettles at the thought of having to move away so it finally feels that all my hard work, extra hours at work, hasstle with my XH has finally paid off.

Zany that's great news! Reminds me of my mum when she divorced my dad. Dad was forcing her to sell our family home for his 'share', even though he'd swindled her out of her half of the business they ran by secterly running it down and filtering off the money (sly bastard) and we all were devastated at the thought of having to move (well, he wasn't, the greedy shit!).

Anyway her auntie passed away and left mum an inheritance which was just about enough to pay him off (which was very sad but really helped mum out of a difficult spot, for which I'm sure her aunt would be smiling down at her, knowing her gift had saved us all from the streets!).

Mum still lives in that home

There's never anything simple about divorce, is there! Just pleased that you've broken free from the situation and now own your own home!

Lakelover - hello and welcome to the Bus I don't go to AA so can't really advise on that but from what I have seen on here, the posters who do go love it and find it a great support.

---------------

Please ignore the following all Babes, this post if for Purplebrickroad

Purple - you are really starting to wind me up now with your constant AA bashing. I am going to report your posts as I feel that you are not contributing in a positive manner on the Bus now.

Please, stop posting about children being raped and abused at AA meetings or following AA meetings due to women meeting men, bringing them into their lives and then raping their children

That is NOT what this Bus is about.

Now, unless you have something RELEVANT to the Bus, please STOP spouting the same old, tired AA bashing.

secretly, secterly sounds like a cult!

Shit spelling here too but I have an excuse, my new meds are really strong and knocking me for 6 a bit. Sorry

Thank again wasonce - makes me feel better hearing it from someone who has grown up in that situation and appreciate it. My XH is still was very bitter as he thought I only wanted to stay in a nice area rather than seeing that it was best for he DC's.

Mouse are the new meds working yet

Zany - I won't know for a while, it takes about 6 weeks for them to actually get into my sytem properly.

The do make me feel a bit and wobbly. At least I know what it is!

Babes - just so you know, I have reported Anitdenial and Purplebrickroad's post. I really don't believe that stories of children and young girls being raped in/after AA meetings are constructive, supportive or wanted on this Bus.

I hope that no-one minds but I found them upsetting so asked for them to be removed for that, and the reasons mentioned above.

Afternoon

Those posters make it sound like AA is the only place in the world where vulnerable women make bad relationship decisions that end up harming their kids. That's just not true now, is it!

I've never taken either of my kids to a meeting and have no plans to do so, but there are several regular kids at one of the biggest meetings I go to, all ages. I would have to say that the women who bring them do seem to be particularly errr, not really sure how to put this... but perhaps they don't think things through as well as they could? I agree that some of the stories told (the meeting I'm talking about is a speaker meeting so no sharing back - three speakers, 20 mins each or thereabouts).

The AA bashing does get on my tits a bit, especially if I'm feeling a bit wobbly about my involvement which does happen from time to time. I've never felt unsafe at a meeting - and if you stick to the normal rules of safety similar to anyone internet dating (for instance) does then you shouldn't be in any more danger than any other person out and about. The whole men for men and women for women ethos is surely part of a system designed to minimise risk in terms of sexual predation.

Anyway, aside from all that... how the devil are you all?

Welcome to Lakelover (and any other newbies I've missed in the last few days). Well done to your mum! I've met a few parent/(adult)child combos in AA and there certainly can be a genetic element to addiction.

I have a wedding party to go to tomorrow night which will be my first social drinking occasion since I quit drinking (!) I have been actively avoiding such situations but I think I'm ready to try it out. I only have to show my face for an hour and dh is coming with me which means I couldn't get away with drinking without anyone knowing, even if I wanted to. I will report back afterwards!

I'm not very good in social situations Golly but I remember I think it was Jesus saying to plan ahead what you are going to drink before you go so that you aren't tempted to fall into old/familar ways of ordering your favourite drink. One of the few times I did socialise without alcohol I amazed myself that others found me whitty/fun to talk to without a goblet glass of wine in my hand.

So Zany essentially I should be asking myself... 'what would jesus do?'

Oh dear, made myself laugh there

Antidenial - I take it that you're american? In the UK there are very few young people (ie under 22, say) attending ordinary meetings. I don't know about elsewhere in the UK but in my city there is a specific 'young person's' group. I suspect older people attending would be watched carefully.

I know that there is debate in the UK about using a 'chit' system here, where offenders have to attend by order of a court and have a card ticked by a group member (or something like that). AA argues that it against the tradition that in order to be a member you must have the desire to stop drinking. Not because judge told you to go, in order to avoid a harsher punishment. Meetings using the chit system are clearly marked on the where to find leaflet and are easily avoided.

I apologize my comment was to mouseface-not babes.
@mouseface-I thought you appreciated my comments yesterday?
I guess they were not sincere statements.

Would that be emails that you and PBR have exchanged, antid??

Sorry, flippant I know, but anonymous supportive emails is an internet argument back up used by people who want to appear to have lots of support. Where are the people emailing you, on this thread? I can't see them. Except of course your sock puppet.

"@Miflaw- We agree at least that bringing children to meetings is a no-no.Even though for you it is only to be self serving to the members anonimity and not the childrens safety." - No, not os - what I meant is that parents are not reliant on the goodwill of members, the members also have something to lose by encouraging children over the age of 4 to attend.

"The reason that AA/NA are different than other adult venues is that both organizations encourage minors to attend."

I have NEVER, in nearly 10 years of attending meetings between 1 and 7 times every week, EVER seen any sign at all of anyone encouraging minors to attend. We do not WANT minors present because, unless the minor him/herslef is an alcoholic, it is not fair on the children and also puts our anonymity at risk. (Also, most minors are non-alcoholics so are not welcome at closed meetings on that basis alone.)

"They are recruiting teenagers to build there base knowing that they are being sexually abused." I have never seen AA "recruit" anyone, least of all minors. The youngest member I have met in Europe was about 19; the youngest member in a typical meeting will be about 27.

Nor have I EVER heard, even as a rumour, of minors being sexually abused in British AA - the mention of York in PBR's message is the first I have ever heard of this.

"Another reason AA/NA is more dangerous is because you have the judicial system sending violent criminals ans sexual predators to these meetings.
The courts to not send them to those you spoke of." The British judicial system - unlike the US system (bit of cut and paste going on here?) does NOT send anyone to meetings. There is a "chit" system whereby certain categories of criminals (normally where the crime is drink- or drug-motivated or related) can get parole on the basis that they choose to attend meetings - though not all groups operate this. In three years as a group secretary (in three different meetings) I have never issued a single chit. If any of these (apparently very few) individuals are sexual predators then it is coincidental and therefore unknowable.

"Of course sexual predators wont mention their crimes in a meeting for the most part. They want to be anonymous.Correct Miflaw. The point you are missing is that it is because of the anonymity that makes minors vulnerable
to those that attend these meetings.AA/NA has a much higher % of dangerous felons at any one time than your local chess club." That is one of many reasons why minors are not welcome at AA meetings, except, on rare occasions, as toddlers in the company of single parents.

"What would I like AA/NA to do about this? Thanks for asking.

1. Stop recruiting minors to meetings!" They don't. I've never seen this. Which meetings have you yourself seen this happen in?

"2) if they want teen meetings," - they don't. I defy you to find me these teen meetings as they are not listed anywhere I know - London, for example, which has 600 meetings a week, including specific meetings for Poles, women, and the deaf, does not have a single teen meeting.

"than be responsible and create teen meetings and have background checks on adults that run the teen meetings.Plus there are a host of other safety guards that they could put in place,similiar to Alateen and many other youth programs do.2 Again, irrelevant because there are no teen meetings.

"3) If there is a crime committed against a minor,or even suspected-call the police. Do not consider it as an outside issue just to protect their image.
Children depend on adults to protect them." I have never seen a crime committed in an AA meeting, except for drunk and disorderly, which we tend to deal with ourselves because it's quickest - we normally get the drunk to leave and come back when he's finished throwing chairs. If crimes happen outside the meetings, obviously the people to report it are those involved.

It is one thing to have a view about whether AA is an effective means of treating alcoholism. It is another to spread lies about its members, accusing them of or implciating them in criminal activity. Start by telling us where these teen meetings take place and how AA (who have a policy of non-recruitment) "recruit" their (non-existent) UK teen membership.

Back up your claims with cases that you have seen or retract them, or I will be reporting you for what amounts to slander.

"I think many appreciate it based on the e-mails we have recieved" - who is "we"?

My niece, at aged 16 has drug and alcohol issues - hell the GP won't even send her to the local drug/alcohol support centre because of the risk of contact with people with possible convictions for something unsavoury, plus the fact they're all too old for her to be mixing with and have enough problems of their own. So where this notion that teens are being sent/recruited to go to AA meetings has come from, I don't know. Many of her friends have drug and alcohol abuse problems but none of them have been sent to AA, either.

As it happens, she attends a support group ran by the council for teenagers, ran by suuport workers who are all CRB checked and have helped her out a lot over these past few months.

Now I'm not saying abuse doesn't happen within AA, as I don't know the facts. However as a parent who knows full well the responsibility I have (yes, I) to protect my children, I really don't need anyone preaching at me, especially as I'd never in a million years take any of my children to a meeting, ever.

Please, stop with the alarmist comments - they're not helpful, to be frank. Abuse is a dreadful thing to happen to anyone, but is not confined to AA meetings. It's a bit like saying all catholic priests are perverts when we know full well that's not the case!

Thank you for your concern, however misguided and unwanted it may be