Men! Why is it so difficult for them?

[shandybass]

I'm wondering why it is it's so difficult for dh to support me? He says he just doesn't know what to say and that whatever he does say is wrong.

He has just been on a week's lads holiday while I was at home looking after dcs and going through a miscarriage. We both agreed on him still going on his holiday and I know he would have cancelled it if I'd asked him. When he came back I had been bottling things up and am not in a good way. He's gone back to normal mode. I tried to tell him last night how I feel and that I would really like him to treat me a bit and make it up to me a little for being away and give me a bit of breathing space to grieve and heal. To which he got upset and said he doesn't know what to say to me, that he doesn't have it in him. I told him just to try a bit.

Anyway today he came home from work and said he'd booked cinema tickets for two, I could come if I wanted but it was a racing lads film. I got upset having thought it was for us and he got in a rage and said I was over reacting as this is in two weeks time and I've been to the cinema with the girls and he's been fine with it.

Where do I go with this next. Accept that that's how he is? Or I don't know. I know I am feeling low anyway and will get better with time.

If the film is 'Senna' go with him, it's not just a bloke film. ( only racing film just coming out I can think of )

sorry, not feeling very articulate tonight, but wanted to say that I feel for you... I hope things improve and somebody with better advise comes along in a minute!

I've no idea j it was only a over the shoulder offer. Perhaps you can give me the bloke perspective. Although what I want is him to have a big if female perspective.

Sorry should be 'bit of' not 'big if'

He sounds an arse but I would go watch the very interesting film just to spite him. To really bug him whenever the big nosed French guy Alan Prost comes on keep muttering "ooh he is lovely" ( he is the baddie )

SO he's booked cinema tickets for two but doesn;t care whether you go with him or not? WHo's the other ticket supposed to be for?

selfish

Have you got into a pattern of not asking for your needs to be meet so that he doesn't consider them? Maybe he never did consider you but you have always been the giver because you don't want to be seen as a nag? Why did you say it was OK for him to go off and have fun while you were going through a miscarriage alone and having to look after DC? Come to think of it, how could he even consider still going?

Sorry, that's a lot of questions. Sounds like you two need to go back to basics in your communication and finding what your relationship is about. Couples therapy?

Yes I am a giver and normally quite strong. It was iffy for a while about whether he would go but awkward for him not to as he'd booked most of the trip. I'm still ok that he went, but now he's back I expect some payback and appreciation. I would ask for things myself but am having difficulty facing people. I can't for the life of me think he would open up to a stranger in therapy when he can't talk to me.

spring I don't know who the other ticket is for, probably he'll ask one of his mates.
I would go jbell but he wouldn't be irked by it and I would end up arranging babysitters for a night out not of my choosing.

Sometimes 'I don't know what to say, everything I do is wrong' can mean 'I really can't be arsed to make more than vague gestures in your direction, beause my needs are what matter to me'. Do you think this is the case here?

A decent man wouldn't have gone on his jollies and left you to cope alone, he would have spent the week looking after you and taking care of the children, thats what caring men do, they put their family first, family men don't go on pathetic "lads" holidays, especially when their wife has just miscarried.

A decent man wouldn't have gone on his jollies and left you to cope alone, he would have spent the week looking after you and taking care of the children, thats what caring men do, they put their family first, family men don't go on pathetic "lads" holidays, especially when their wife has just miscarried.

Hi Shandybass
I'm very sorry to hear about the miscarriage and that you are still (totally understandably) feeling down.

I agree with those who say your DH should never have gone on the lads holiday under the circumstances. More to the point he shouldn't have WANTED to go, he should have wanted to stay at home and care for you in a difficult time. He sounds to me like one of those people who likes to run away from difficult situations and pretend they aren't happening.

This is just a hunch but do you do things like tell him to go away on holiday because you think it will make him think you are a 'good' partner. I only ask because that is what I used to do with my ex and he never bloody appreciated any of it. It is pointless making sacrifices like that for men, it makes you no better thought of sadly.

If he doesn't know what to do to cheer you up (which I don't believe for a second frankly, any idiot knows thaat taking their wife out for a nice day out, buying a bunch of flowers for her the size of a sheep etc is going to put a smile on her face) Then I would sit him down again and literally spell it out to him what you want him to do. Therefore if he again totaly fails to step up to the plate then he hasen't got a leg to stand on with the 'I don't know what to do' excuse.

Can I ask when the last time he made any sort of caring gesture towards you was? If it has been a long time then he has probably gotton into the habit of it literally not even crossing his mind and that just isin't acceptable.

A bloke's perspective...

Having been in the situation where my partner had a miscarriage, my experience was that it never occurred to anyone that I might be grieving too. Indeed, it felt like I wasn't allowed to grieve. I was expected to just get on with it, be strong and support my partner through her grief. I tried but part of the way I coped was to shut it away and not acknowledge what had happened, just getting on with life as if nothing had changed. It felt like I would fall apart completely if I did anything else. Yes, there were times when it felt that whatever I said or did was wrong. It seemed it was wrong to talk about it but equally wrong not to talk about it, for example. I know my partner felt I didn't offer her enough support. Looking back on it I think she was probably right.

I am not here to justify my own behaviour or anyone else's. I am sure my partner's grief was much greater than mine. I am not proud of how I handled it but that is how it was.

I don't know you or your partner. I can only tell you how it was for me. He may just be being an insensitive arse.

prh that was a really honest post and I'm sorry for your loss.

shandy - the lads' holiday is a difficult one because you did encourage him to go. The cinema tickets aren't for a fortnight - the key thing is to point out there's been quite enough "him" stuff recently and it's time for the two of you to do something together. Tell him you need to be looked after. If he then doesn't, he really is an arse...

How is the lads holiday a "difficult one" ?

OP sounds like a lot of women, she's a coper and puts herself and her needs last, she was probably telling him to go, hoping against hope that he would say no, you are more important, it may have been a ( subconcious) test, if it was then he failed spectacularly.

Malificence I cannot speak for OP but I strongly suspect you are right. Been there and done that myself with ex. You really pray that they will say 'No, you are more important', then when they don't you just feel like utter crap

Very occasionally I will cry when upset. Even more occasionally it might be because of something DH has said/done etc.

DH looks askance when I cry. He always asks what he can do. I always say that a hug would be good start. One day he is going to spontaneously hug me to make me feel better, but it hasn't happened so far.

He's a lovely man - but completely at sea when dealing with my being upset. So OP, I feel for you.

OP Have you actually spelled it out to your DH that you are currently feeling miserable, upset, emotionally vunerable and could do with a little comfort and emotional support from him?

If not actually say the above to him.
Most men always moan that women expect them to know what is "wrong" but never actually tell them what the problem is.
Very few men are instinctive as to tapping into their female partners feelings.

He sounds the sort that needs to be told

Some men (most) have to have it spelt out to them. Don't set mind-reading tests along the lines of 'He should know how I'm feeling' and expect comforting because its a rare man that can read a womans mind and a rarer one that knows what to do unless you've been very good at communication.

I used to be a bottler, and i got a very pleasant surprise when i made a huge effort to stop doing that when i discovered that DH was very receptive to helping and comforting and doing all those i'd imagined in my mind he 'should know to do if he loved me'.

I am sorry for your loss. But please talk to him.

Hi. Thanks for your advice. The reason I was so upset on the Monday night was that I had been really emotional and upset on the Sunday night and had then ended up having this really frank chat about what I wanted in terms of him to take over with the kids and give me some time myself to heal and that I thought I deserved a few treats now after his holidays. This was after him getting upset and saying he didn't know what to do and it wasn't in him to be able to help.

The very next thing after his work day I got was him telling me about the cinema tickets. I did fly off the handle and shouted at him, eventually leaving to give myself space. He has agreed to try harder and genuinely does not see why I was upset. This is a pattern and we end up like this a lot, but as I seem incapable of controlling my frustrations which get worse when he fails to respond at all, he always has the upper hand as he just waits for me to get over being so upset.

I am fine milkandwine and malificience honest, with him having gone on the holiday by the way as I did have family support and I felt I could cope with their help. What I don't think either of us had bargained for was that I would be worse this week, which I guess shows I was bottling it up a bit when he was away and having to cope.

prh you do give an honest account of how it is in my relationship and I do find it a struggle when things are difficult.

Kiwinyc - now, that is one of the most perceptive posts for quite some time.

In fact, it should be repeated in every thread that is opened.

Since Adam and Eve, Woman and Man have been different. Both are just wired differently - that's all.

Some rare men are equipped with some degree of awareness and connectivity to our ongoing changing needs. And let's face it - some of us can be pretty volatile in our requirements at any given time.

Why not forget about the mind games - at which he will fail everytime - and just plainly state how you see the world and what you require from him.

For a number of years, I worked in a very male oriented business. I spent most of my time guiding individuals (and groups) as to how they should operate in keeping relations goings in the work place - and that was just male to male stuff. To a man, once they were appraised of a situation, they reacted with generosity and warmth. Their problem is one of recognition and perception.

Think how less equipped they are to decode our continuously changing moods and needs. And don't say "They should" - they just don't. And that's it.

To OP - you appear to have the intelligence and generosity not to blame him for going on his trip when you had given him clearance to so. Why don't you now continue on the intelligent path and explain to him where you are at - while also being alert to where he is at.

In my experience, there are as many decent men out there as there are decent women. Unfortunately, they just are not equipped (generally) to read signs very well. So just take the mind-reading requirement out of the equation - and let him look after you, which he most likely will be delighted to do (with some prods).

Ok thank you mirandax and kiwynic. I think I need more lessons, so I told him what I wanted, time off and treats and he came home saying he'd booked cinema tickets for him and a mate or me if I insist. So I should just have not been bothered by that and carry on with all I wanted from him.

Sounds ok now perhaps.

Re-reading the advice and trying to make sense of it, I do feel a bit frustrated. I do tell dh what I want and spelt it out to him on Sun and Mon after a bit of a blow out on Monday admittedly and ge still claims to be at a loss of how to help. So I end up breaking it down in to can you bath the children tonight? And I'm feeling very tired, crap etc for example. This he will do mostly without question, but also without any acknowledgent to my feelings. And then it's no more, as in just that time and it doesn't even occur to him to ask later how I am? for example. I just find it wearing to spell it out so much and sometimes feel it would be nice for him to take some initiative and show some thought. He of course says I think too much.

It's like spring and milk say how can they continue to use this 'I don't know what to do or say' excuse when you do spell it out After all they are not brainless and have the capacity to learn and retain things. This is what frustrates me and admittedly I tend not to ask then until I'm quite desperate as I know it just annoys me and depresses me to think that this is how it is.