Men! Why is it so difficult for them?

[shandybass]

I'm wondering why it is it's so difficult for dh to support me? He says he just doesn't know what to say and that whatever he does say is wrong.

He has just been on a week's lads holiday while I was at home looking after dcs and going through a miscarriage. We both agreed on him still going on his holiday and I know he would have cancelled it if I'd asked him. When he came back I had been bottling things up and am not in a good way. He's gone back to normal mode. I tried to tell him last night how I feel and that I would really like him to treat me a bit and make it up to me a little for being away and give me a bit of breathing space to grieve and heal. To which he got upset and said he doesn't know what to say to me, that he doesn't have it in him. I told him just to try a bit.

Anyway today he came home from work and said he'd booked cinema tickets for two, I could come if I wanted but it was a racing lads film. I got upset having thought it was for us and he got in a rage and said I was over reacting as this is in two weeks time and I've been to the cinema with the girls and he's been fine with it.

Where do I go with this next. Accept that that's how he is? Or I don't know. I know I am feeling low anyway and will get better with time.

Yes i have heard the 'You think too much' line from my DH. In terms of chores it might be useful to set out and agree a few ground rules to start off with so that things don't have to be unspoken - for example, Dh and I have an general understanding that we alternate giving the kids a bath every night and doing the bedtime routine of getting their teeth brushed and into bed. Of whoever cooks dinner (usually me), the other person cleans up after. Its useful to divide regular stuff like this up to avoid conflict anyway as once its laid out you both then take responsibility for doing your tasks and its not then expected that either of you have to be told that something has to be done.

As for getting him to take the initiative - write a list if you need to of things he can select from! i.e.

-Ask me how my day was when you get home from work and stop for 5 mins and actually listen to what i have to say
-Take an interest and enquire as to what I've been doing
-Give me more hugs!
-Suggest i have a bath and run me one
-Offer me a lie-in on Sunday morning and/or bring me breakfast in bed
-Bring home a bunch of flowers (NOT from a service station)
-Bring me chocolate
-Suggest things we can do as a family
-Suggest things we can do as a couple
-Book a babysitter and take me out for a meal

Basically you want him to show that he's thinking about you, that he cares about your well-being. that he wants to know how you're feeling, and that he treats these feelings with importance. Feel free to say exactly those words to him! Tell him that you need to feel loved by him (and then give him your list,) and ask him to do things that are meaningful to you, that make you feel looked after, on a more regular basis. Its a two-way street too - ask him what you can do to make him feel more loved. (My DH says all i have to do is answer the phone and thats enough. Hopeless man. But he's getting there.) But next time you're feeling shattered and he looks at you blankly, tell him - pick something from that list!

kiwynic you've brought a tear to my eye that's exactly what I want him to be able to do. Now I just have to pluck up the courage to be so blatant which makes me a bit embarrassed really. I can't imagine telling anyone else, not that I would o'r need to, that I've given my dh the above list as an aide memoir as he is that hopeless.

Do not for one MINUTE believe the utter bullshit about men and women being wired differently. Whoever posted that, I'm sure you are sincere and well meaning but you are WRONG. Go and read Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine. It's not about 'wiring', it's about male privilege ie the world is set up in such a way that providing emotional caretaking is a job men have dumped on women, because women are there to service men.
And OP, do NOT blame yourself. You have told him what you want from him, and he is not doing it because he can't be bothered.

SpringChicken - I think you're being a bit harsh. Yes, some men feel entitled to the way they behave, and some women (mothers, wives) enable this behaviour.

But some men really do have poor emotional intelligence and are clueless about the need to understand someones body language or interpret what is said to them beyond face value. I have a DH similiar to Shandy, i've had the conversations I've described with him. I even sent him a definition of 'empathy' once because he was so not getting what i was talking about.

I really have had to beat him over the head about this and it started with having to explain what me happy, and what he has to do help that, or at the very least, help me not be unhappy! It took me a long time to realise that i need to feel nurtured an cared for, just like my kids. And like Shandy, i didn't like asking - it made me feel like child myself if i even thought of asking. I used to get angry with him, i would despair at feeling this way and now finally, I think he's starting to get it, he remembers to ask, he remembers to be more attentive and involved now that he realises how unhappy i had become.

kiwynic you've brought a tear to my eye that's exactly what I want him to be able to do. Now I just have to pluck up the courage to be so blatant which makes me a bit embarrassed really. I can't imagine telling anyone else, not that I would o'r need to, that I've given my dh the above list as an aide memoir as he is that hopeless.

Kiwync: Just how is booking two tickets to a film the OP probably won't like and then saying he doesn't care if she wants to go or not reasonable behaviour when the OP has asked him to spend time with her? It's passive-agressive selfish prickery - 'Look, I have made a token effort, deliberately chosen something you won't like so not I can say there's no pleasing you and go back to taking no notice'. If this man is capable of holding down a job, he's capable of hearing and responding to a request, it's just that he doesn't think his wife is worth any effort, courtesy or kindness.

It never ceases to amaze me what low expectations a small minority of women have regarding their partners.

He went on a lads holiday whilst his partner was miscarrying his baby. Wow, he sounds like a real catch.

To try and then cheer his partner up he then bought cinema tickets for a film he knew she probably wouldn't like. He might just go with one of the lads. Really, he is a cock.

Seriously, most men aren't this shit.

yeah, OP's Dh isn't going to get any awards for that unthought out effort but that doesn't mean he should be be written off does he? He probably said that because he knows its not really the right thing to be offering.

I think you're reading too much into his motives and turning it into a deliberate attempt to make his wife unhappy.

I think it's extremely insulting to men to assume that most of them just have poor emotional intelligence (even if they are lovely blokes in other ways).

I know plenty of men who don't have poor emotional intelligence.

There's little difference between emotional intelligence and other forms of intelligence. I bet the same men who are crap at listening to their wives' needs are the the same men who have no problem at all in understanding what it is they need to do to get ahead at work.

SGB is right. It is just lazy at best and disrespectful and dismissive at worst.

"I think you're reading too much into his motives and turning it into a deliberate attempt to make his wife unhappy."

Nope, her partner is doing a sterling job making her miserable already.

99% of men are not this shit.

Besides which, OP said that she told him exactly what she wanted and he still chose cinema tickets for a car racing film? Sorry, but unless OP is deeply into cars, that either means hes really, really thick or (more likely) that he just doesn't care enough.

Come now, TheCrackFox, you're giving the human race too much credit. 86% at best.

Bloody hell. Lists and prompting? Relationships shouldn't be this much hard work. I dunno about emotional intelligence, sounds more like emotional laziness and selfishness. I don't believe the majority of men are like this. My bloke certainly isn't. I think some raising of the bar needs to be done.

Kiwinyc - Basically you want him to show that he's thinking about you, that he cares about your well-being. that he wants to know how you're feeling, and that he treats these feelings with importance. Feel free to say exactly those words to him!

OP has done that. Leaving aside the not unimportant point that [a] she's just had a miscarriage and [b] he's just been on a lads' holiday while she minded the ranch - she's done it and his response was feeble to say the least. So your recommendation is to write him a list and let him pick & choose

I don't see that picking an item from a list of "How to be a halfway decent partner" shows he's thinking about her or wants to know how she's feeling. Honestly, do you reckon it does?

i reckon that what i've said is more thoughtful than just sitting on the end of the keyboard and bitching. Nothing you've said is remotely constructive or useful.

You're all itching to scream 'divorce the insensitive useless prick'. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, which doesn't happen on here very often.

I didn't realise i'd stumbled into a man hating witches coven. The OP asked for advice, not for a bandwagon of male condemnation.

a man hating witches coven - hurrah! You scored two in one sentence

I didn't add advice because I agree with the majority of posters here; I wouldn't have posted anything if not for your opinion, Kiwinyc, that it's a woman's job to teach a man how to treat her with basic respect and consideration.

OP I am really sorry for your loss and also sorry that you are feeling so down about how your partner is treating you now .

You have told him how he can make you feel better and he doesn't seem to hear you , or he is hearing you and just not caring about your feelings . Either way you need to sit him down and discuss this with him again .

I know you may not want to or feel you should as you have already told him but I presume you don't want to be miserable either .

I do agree with others , this isn't a "man" thing this is a "your partner" thing .

By thinking of it as a "man" thing it is easier to detach him from his actions and that isn't a good thing for either of you .

I love men, infact I love them so much that I consider them every bit as capable as women. I don't think they need a list written as how to emotionally support their partner.

If my Dh was going through a tough time I know for a fact that I wouldn't buy him a cinema ticket for the latest chick flick and then, when he inevitably doesn't want to go, take one of my friends instead.

I would rather a man-hating witches coven than a bunch of women who rationalise and make excuses for people who are basically just crap

"men! Pah! aren't they rubbish!!

well, no not really. They are rubbish if we let them be rubbish though, and let them off the hook because "they can't help it"

I am sorry for your loss, OP, and I think your partner has behaved with very little compassion. Men have compassion "hard wired" into them, just like every human being. They can choose to bypass it though, if it suits. Which is what happened here.

I think a healthy relationship requires constant work in terms of communication and telling your partner what you expect from them. Yes an actual list seems ridiculous but its just a suggestion, a tool of communication, a starting point maybe. OP is of course entitled to laugh and know if if wouldn't work on her DH. But, normal communication seems to have failed miserably here. Yes OP's DH has behaved like a tool, and OP asked for advice on how to get through to him.

Pointless condemnation of the OP's DH only makes you feel better - his behaviour has been awful I don't argue with that - but just telling someone they've behaved like a shit doesn't exactly help them not be one in the future. Do you parent your kids like that? Some people, male and female are gifted at making others feel good about themselves. Others could do with some lessons.

Kiwi , I don't think it is pointless condemnation to say that he is behaving the way he is because of his choice and not "because he is a man" .
He has to take responsibility for his actions and not have them excused because of his gender .

I do agree with you that they need to sit down and talk and I don't think anyone thinks the op should walk away from him because of this but some serious discussions need to take place rather than just the get out clause of "Men why is it so difficult for them"

It is no harder for him to be a nice person than it is for her .

shandy - Sorry, I'm not offering any solutions, but I will make an observation.

It seems that your husband has told you what he is and isn't capable of when he said to you that "he doesn't have it in him". He tells you he "doesn't know what to say", and that this behaviour for him is, as you refer to it, "normal mode". So, in other words, he has made it clear that he is who he is, and your experience of him backs that up.

You, on the other hand, have told him that you "expect some payback and appreciation". The problem with expectations is that often they are the hope that something that is entrenched is going to change; and, in this case, that change is that he will "try harder" to be the husband that you want.

I have my opinions about your husband's behaviour, but I wanted to reflect your own words back to you, because what I see through those words are two people who are incompatible, and who expect different things from each other. I don't think that is going to change. I don't think he is going to change.

And, I wanted to add, you shouldn't have to change either.

I'm disappointed to see the excuse being made that men are differently wired. As others point out - these men who ate unhelpful and thoughtless at home are perfectly able to function well at work dealing with the wishes of others and absorbing information succesflully.

It's not at all about saying 'oh divorce him' it's about making the point that this man does know exactly what his wife needs - he isn't 'emotionally unintelligent' he is simply selfish. She has made clear what she wants - and it's really not complicated.

Being kind and considerate ie taking your wife out somewhere nice because she has nothing to do with some hazy notion of emotional intelligence. It's just kind and should be obvious if you care about her - particularly if she tells she wants some extra care.

I don't believe this man 'doesn't know' that helping with the children would help his wife - and again, emotional intelligence doesn't come into it. He just doesn't want to do it - perhaps he thinks he shouldn't have to.

When he says ' I don't know how to he'll he is not being honest - and if he was really clueless but actually wanted to change he would ask how to help.

He doesn't and should not need a list of how to be a good caring partner and how to help with child care - these things come from the heart or,and from very very basic observation

Its not about saying divorce him it's about exposing his attitude as a matter of choice not some kind of weird male disability

If someone doesn't have the skills to perceive when or if their partner is upset then they have to learn. They don't necessarily even know they're missing these, I think they wander around in a ignorant haze of not understanding why people close to them are upset. You must all be married to perfect mind-reading mozarts of nurturing love and caring who always notice everything that needs to be done and exactly what do to.

Have none of you ever been annoyed when your Dh's didn't notice that something needed to be done, or magically knew they they were expected to perform at least 50% of childcare and household tasks?

I married a man who is sometimes an arse, but with some training, he's less so now. Over time he learnt many new things he needs to say and do, and i told him what of those things were most meaningful to me. Its been a process of communication. I never realised he was so disabled to begin with!