It seems DH is doing things on purpose so I'll nag him, and then we'll have a big row

[mmebovarycestmoi]

DH is overweight (technically obese now), doesn't exercise at all, eats whatever he fancies. I did what I could to help him eat healthly/exercise/take care of himself, took him to GP (who said he had high cholesterol and should go back in 6 months - 3 years ago), stressed myself a lot.

So, after years of that, I decided (over a month ago) to let him to it. He's an adult, after all (he pays the gym every month and never puts his feet there, and we are not that comfortable financially at the moment). It feels good not to have to worry about this, to tell the truth.

He sleeps very late everyday, which affects the way he functions. I used to nag him about this as well, but not anymore. I just leave him to it as well. He is always tired.

He's got a cold for weeks now, spends his days feeling crap. He says his immune system is weak. Of course it is. (he wants me to pity him and take care of him, and make teas and so on, but I'm not doing this, not this time)

But the point is. I decided to let his eating and sleeping habits to him, as well as his health. I've always taken care of him, but he refuses to be taken care of and says I'm bossing him around, and simply doesn't do what I say. Fair enough, I should have realised he's an adult years ago, but better late than never.

Since we started living together, over 6 years ago, it has always been agreed that we always have a shower before going to bed. He used to have his shower at 4 in the morning (just to prove that he does it when he wants, and not when he's told).

But now, since I don't nag him because of sleep/food, he has decided to skip the shower altogether. It seems he wants a reason for a fight! I pretended I didn't notice once, then twice. Yesterday he lied he had showered (he knows these little lies are reason for big, huge fights, as I take them very seriously - so it's two reasons for a fight).

It seems I have a 37yo teenager at home, who wants to prove I don't tell him what to do and/or wants to pick up fights so he can see he's loved! Really? We have a 1yo DS and I'll have to deal with a teenager when the time comes. I don't want this right now.

(BTW, I've told him several times, if he doesn't like any of the "house rules," we can discuss it and change the rule - instead of him simply ignoring it, which is stressful to me and not a good example to DS, who will soon start to understand these things).

I'm not sure how to deal with that. We sleep in the same bed (DS as well) and I'm not putting up with him sleeping there without showering (even if I did, I'm sure he would pick some other thing after that, just to piss me off).

I shouldn't be worrying about this when there's work to do, a child to take care of, housework to be done, etc etc.

What does DH want from me? He never says things clearly so I'm left to trying to guess what he wants and how he feels.

I crossed with your last post. "Where do I go from here?" Stopping nagging would be a start. It won't work, so you are just stressing yourself and him.

What's with showering before bed??!!

You could stick that up your bum OP, sorry like!

I think you need to take a step back and try to see this from a different angle, OP.

You admit that so far you've been getting involved in:

• what he eats

• how long he sleeps

• when he washes/showers

• what he's allowed to wear (shoes, clothes on bed)

• when he sees a doctor

It's too much. You've eased up on the food issue but from your posts I would be amazed if your dh wasn't picking up on the fact that it still obviously bothers you.

You can't micro-manage someone else's life and be surprised when they eventually decide that enough is enough.

lots of x-posts here.

1 - the point is not if the shower rule is absurd or not. It wasn't (that much of) an issue until now.

2 - I stopped nagging. And then he picked up something else that he knows will cause more nagging. That is the whole point of my original post!

Mm, I can see the difficulty, MmeBovary. i wasn't meaning that you'd withdrawn your love unreasonably, or anything. If the two of you have always had a dynamic in which you nag and he resists, and then you stop, it doesn't surprise me that he suddenly has chronic colds and wants to be looked after. What he wants, I guess, is for you to mother him but without the nagging, just the tea-and-toast parts. I'm not saying that's reasonable, or even conscious on his part, but he's noticed the change and he's reacting to try and restart the old pattern. Which is what you were saying all along, isn't it?

I have a good friend whose marriage was a bit like this. Her husband was horrible about his own health - chainsmoked, drank, hardly ate and when he did eat it was crap. He was painfully thin, and sallow, and it got to the point where the Dr was telling him that his ... liver, I think? ... was at risk because of his diet. She did the things you'd do for a small fussy child, cooked nice unthreatening things like macaroni cheese and hid bits of vegetable in it. She nagged him into at least drinking a vegetable juice per day.

And he'd pour it down the sink, lie about it, then sneak out to the shop and buy - and eat - an entire packet of chocolate biscuits instead.

I think he wanted the concern and the care that she showed when she worried about him, but it set up a mother/teenager dynamic that drove him to 'rebel'. He was also irresponsible with money, etc.

I know the symptoms are different for you two, but does that strike a chord?

coppertop,

I stopped all these (food, sleep, doctor). The shoes rule, as I said, is one that he takes more seriously than me, so I'm not controlling anyone on this.

Yes, I figured out I have other things to do other than micromanage an adult. But then he picked up on the last thing he knows will annoy me.

No you're right - the point is NOT about whether or not the rule about showering before bed is absurd....it's about how meddlesome and controlling you seem to be....and how you view his decision to choose for himself as rebellion!!

Crikey....ease off woman....you sound like you need a hobby outside of managing your husbnand's life for him! Sheeeesh!

Tortoise, this couple dynamic is A LOT like us here.

I would do all those things, he would eat a whole pack of crisps after I've gone to bed.

It makes sense that he wants the pampering and the tea and everything else, but he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own health. But now it seems he wants me to start nagging him again, and I don't want to go back there...

No Pictish, it's the other way round. Once I decided to ease off and spend my time with other things, he started doing things to annoy me on purpose.

Have you talked about any of this in your therapy/counselling sessions? Even if your husband isn't going with you, it might help you sort out what is going on for you and with the dynamic between you and your husband.

Have to say, I cannot relate to some of your 'rules'. Just the mention of 'house rules' gets my back up. I have never heard of this idea of not sitting on the bed in your outdoor clothes. Call me controlling but I'd have a bigger issue with only changing the bed sheets every two weeks!

Also, why do you assume he's doing these things to annoy you?

Have you considered he is doing them for some other reason, maybe because he just wants to?

I'm reminded of the way that children, seeking attention and not getting it, resort to negative attention-getting behaviours. It seems anti-intuitive, but it's pure instinct; attention is better than non-attention, and even nagging or shouting means you're loved and cared for. In fact, someone said to me once (about toddlers/preschoolers, but the principle stands) that children need love the most at the times when they seem to deserve it the least, and that's certainly true in my house.

With children, the usual workaround is love bombing, but I can absolutely see that you don't want to go there with your husband if you feel like you're the only one giving out, here.

I'm not calling him a child, by the way, but the way we act isn't always conscious, nor adult, and if this is about deep-seated needs then childhood behaviours are relevant.

However, it strikes me that all of his 'bad' behaviours are self-directed. Do you feel that he treats you well, generally? Is he a good husband, a good father, does he love you? Because it seems to me that you are interpreting his self-care behaviours as something that represents his feelings towards you - like, if he really loved you, he'd eat better and shower more. Does that seems accurate?

Exactly what Tortoiseonthehalfshell said at 13:26:34 - I was thinking the same thing but she expressed it much better than I could.

I suggested solo therapy, because you seem unhappy and quite controlling. I don't think married life should be about competitive nagging. You seem stuck in a parent-child dynamic.

Strange dynamic.

I think that you have done well on easing up on 'taking care' of him, but I think that you need to look at any ways in which you nag or control or tell him. Do you think these dynamics are there in other parts of your domestic life eg. washing up and you are just not conscious of them, but it adds up to an overall feeling of control.

I can understand that if he is overweight then he might be affected by sweatiness a bit more than others. Also, that if not showering is your 'ick' thing then it raises the same horror in you as not handwashing after the loo might in others.

He is obviously unhappy in some way.

Are you happy?

My exH used to treat me like a naughty child, telling me what I sould and shouldn't do.

It drove me witless and was very annoying!!!

Please ease up on him, he comes to bed late to get a bit of "alone" and "me" time awaay from work pressures and family pressures.

He sounds unhappy to me, ease up on him and just try and remember what is was about him and why you are together.

I've talked about it in counselling sessions, that he feels controlled and so on. But what can I do about this? I have my issues (quite a few of them), but this problem is his, not mine. And I assume he's doing this to annoy me because he only started doing this when I stopped nagging him about other things.

Tortoise, what you say makes a lot of sense. But to tell you the truth, I really don't feel like bombing him with love. He's not a toddler, he's an adult, that the sort of patience and understanding I have to have with DS, not with DH.

everyspring, what can I do about him not showing up at counselling? The sessions he's been there were pretty useless, more than the times I've been by myself. And re DS in the bed, he says he's fine about it. But anyway, he won't wake up in the night when DS wakes (and it's several times!), so in the end it's not up to him to say where DS sleeps.

Thinktoomuch, I know I should change sheets every week. But I have a lot to do and I'm very anxious atm, so I had to cut corners. Having said that, I end up changing them more often than every fortnight.

"It wasn't (that much of) an issue until now."

But it's possible for something like controlling behaviour (even if mild) to be something you decide to put up with, but that rankles and becomes more and more of an issue until things deteriorate, IYSWIM. So it might not have appeared to be a big issue for you, but he could have been suppressing how much it pissed him off for a long time.

It sounds to me as if you need a lot more space from each other to do your own thing.

Could you get childcare and work more? Could you have separate rooms for a while and make his showering/bedding his business? Could you focus more on friends, hobbies, getting out of the house on your own? You can still talk to him and calmly tell him "I don't like you being this unhealthy, it makes me worried" and "I really would like you to seek help as I'm worried you have depression" but don't push and push, just let him know how you feel, then back off.

There is a difference between telling someone what they have to do, and letting them know how you feel.

jesus, if someone told me when to shower i would tell them to get stuffed

and just cancel the gym, if he never goes, he wont even notice

shrugs and wonders about people making dramas out of nothing sometimes

I think it's really positive that you're at least having counselling, whether it's separately or together. I'd imagine that the other issues you allude to, could be playing a big part in how you seem to need to control your environment, and the dynamic with your DH.

That's a common aspect of anxiety - when I'm stressed, I find myself trying to get little things under control, then at least I feel I'm on top of something.. does that make sense?

Do you think you may ever have had a touch of PND after the birth of your child at all? You said earlier on you became nasty towards your DH after your ds arrived?

Re the counselling. Talk to your DH. Don't nag, don't get upset, just talk, calmly about how much you value his input, and how much you would appreciate it if he were there. Give him the choice, rather than an extra thing to rebel against.

cockney, I've done solo therapy for years, on and off. Had several months of therapy during pregnancy and after DS was born thought NHS. If I could afford it I would have therapy continuously.

Re house tasks he wants me to tell him what to do. And I agree he's not happy. But he won't tell me why exactly. I know he misses home a lot, that's all I know.

Oldwoman, what would you have liked your XP to do? I know he sleeps too late because he wants time to relax. But I also think that in our circumstances (no family help, a small child to take care of) maybe 3 hours or more of "relaxing" everyday is a luxury we can't have. I don't relax as much as he does. Maybe he needs to relax for one hour and then go to sleep so he won't be knackered and get ill because of that.