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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Spring Into Summer.

1002 replies

Mouseface · 09/05/2011 21:43

Hello Smile

Welcome to The Brave Babes Battle Bus.

This is a quest full of Babes, all fighting to remain sober, cut down or are somewhere in between right now.

You ticket to travel is free, it won't expire, and the Bus will always be here, even if there are days when you are not. So come say hi.

I'm Mouse. I have a thing for cheese and vodka, not together, well, not always! Grin

Here is a LINK to the last thread, where you can read all of the previous threads and the journeys so far.

OP posts:
dementedma · 14/05/2011 22:48

*Thurso - Grin
You go girl!! I'll be off the hook now for a few days......
Am abit of a fraud bus-wise as have drunk a whole bottle AGAIN!! I am really, realy lapsed and haven't had a drink free night in ages. Feel like I am back at square one all over again!
Hope you babes are all ok

Silver66 · 14/05/2011 23:48

Hey babes

Just a quick up-date - Venus asked a while a go how my mental attitude to booze has changed since taking the naltrexone and the main thing is that I just don't feel like drinking much any more - I still am because of habit.

a few examples

tonight - didn't even bother getting wine until around 9.30pm and even then asked DP to go to the shop - if he hadn't gone, I don't think I would have bothered going myself (and the shop is 45 seconds walk away). A saturday night without wine Shock. 11.20pm and I am on my third glass but really not bothered................

Thursday - drank a bottle of wine - thought I 'needed' more - went and got another bottle - opened it and it was corked - didn't take it back to the shop to replace it - just went 'fek it' can't be arsed Shock

It's hard to explain but the craving is just not there (and I am smoking a LOT less)

The panic/constant worry/obsession about whether I have got wine in the house let alone, have i got enough, just seems to have gone.

What I am struggling with is the HABIT of always having a glass to hand. The naltrexone has sorted the 'addiction', if that is what it was. Also I am feeling very out of sorts because when you drink with naltrexone, although you still get a bit of a buzz from the alcohol it is just not the same as drinking used to be. I think I am feeling down because in a way, I am grieving for the fact that I will never feel drunk again, never feel the sweet release and oblivion from the here and now - not that i need to feel that - my life is really pretty good Grin

It's hard to explain - my brain tells me when i'm driving home from work at wine o'clock "can't you just taste that lovely glass of chilled white wine waiting for you in the fridge"............then I think "erm no actually - i have no real desire for it at all"

Soooo - for me, the thing that I now have to change is HABIT and lifestyle. I'm seeing my lovely (think drop dead gorgeous but far too young for me) GP on Monday, and am a bit on edge because he has been so supportive over the last 18 months about my drinking/trying to stop, and I feel like I've 'gone behind his back' to see Dr in Edinburgh - ah well - he (my GP) wouldn't have been able to prescribe me naltrexone for alcohol abuse without the go ahead of the Edinburgh Dr.

On a lighter note - I went to get my private prescription filled at Boots (not my local one and thank god for that), read the info sheet in the box after i got it and, as I suspected it's all related to opiate abuse - so basically that branch of Boots now think I'm a heroin addict Grin

So BB's - love you all to bits - I'm in a weird but better place - Mouse, Ma, Thurso, JWN, Venus, Isindie,BB, Bafana and everyone else old and new - even though I've not been posting I've been here all the time Grin

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

venusandmars · 15/05/2011 09:22

Hi Silver and thanks for posting about how things are. It's interesting when I looked at some of the TSM stuff, lots of people on the forum had the stats of how many units they drank and it looked as though it took a few weeks before their drinking levels actually decreased. It sounds as though that's where you are now, right in the middle of breaking the association between alcohol and pleasure, and starting to say "nah, don't really fancy it". Maybe at this stage it's saying 'nah' to the 4th glass, or the 2nd bottle, but that's a start to the change in habit, and I imagine that gradually you'll notice that you've had a cup of tea when you got in from work, or that the thing you really wanted from the fridge was a lovely ice cold glass of ginger and lemongrass juice.

HABITS are tough to change in their own right. I have my own theory about this in relation to alcoholism.... do you want to hear it? I'm going to type it all in my next post.

Wishing you all the best silver xxx

I was out last night at a party, and was the driver for us and a couple of friends. What I did notice was that at least one of my passengers would have been well below the drink driving limits, and neither of the other 2 were drunk in the slightest. One of them was drinking a particular beer - when that ran out he just stopped, didn't switch to another type of beer, or switch to a different drink. How does that contrast with my previous habit where I'd go round drinking anything. I also noticed that the non-alcoholic drinks were the ones that seemed to have run out, and that at the end of the evening there was loads of wine left. It is at these types of ocassions that I can really see how different my drinking pattern was from other people's.

Hope everyone has a good Sunday, and hope mouse managed to get a little more rest.

lovecorrie · 15/05/2011 10:03

Hi all, Right that's it! I was so drunk yesterday I was literally sober - if you know that feeling...I had every plan to get up at half six and go swimming but obviously I couldn't - I was doing that at least twice a week when i was sober, and I need to feel that way again. I've poured the gin down the sink, and am determined to not drink today, hopefully not tomorrow either..etc. It is a habit, a habit that will kill me either physically or mentally and mentally is worse i think. I don't want it now, I really don't. Please help me out here. I'm through with AA - personal choice - so I am going to try the 'corrieplan' Wink. Not entirely sure what that is yet, but it involves not having a drink and feeling WELL! Hope all is going as well as it can with you all.

venusandmars · 15/05/2011 10:51

Here follows the V&M theory on the habit of drinking (no scientific proof, just my ramblings)....

I think of habits as being the neural pathway equivalent of driving a car across a piece of rough, muddy ground. At the first attempt, when everything is level, you could go anywhere. At the second attempt you can see the faint outline of where you went, so you can follow that (but you could just as easily drive on a different route). By the third or fourth attempt you're starting to see a path emerge, and it's easier to follow it, and if the ground was quite soft, you might even find that you're starting to make ruts that your wheels drive along more easily than driving over rough ground. A few more runs of this and you've got a definite track. And you also notice that now it is easier to drive on the track than on the rough ground, and when you approach the start of the track your wheels slip easily into the ruts. In fact it would now take a bit of effort at the start NOT to follow the track, but to bump your car up onto the rough ground. And even more interestingly, you notice that some other people are also driving on this track, so it must be normal. A few more weeks and you don't even think about the track. It's become your normal route, second nature, unconscious ingrained behaviour. It has become a habit.

And so it became with my drinking, gradually, gradually over the years, the habit of opening a bottle to celebrate, having a drink (or several) with a meal, turning to a drink at the end of a stressful day, drinking to relieve boredom. It became a track that my life ran upon, my normal response, second nature, a habit. Oh, and of course because my habit was alcohol, it also had a variety of drug effects - a stimulant, a relaxant, a disinhibitor, a depressant. And as my body adjusted to the effects of alcohol, I needed more to deliver the same effect, and the tracks of that habit became deeper and more ingrained.

So, how to change a habit, any habit? Well there are two choices: gradually or suddenly. Sometimes we have no choice in the matter - a right handed person breaks their right wrist and has no choice but to change that habit and, however awkward, to use their other hand. And it is awkward. Anyone who has been in that situation will know that the simple frustration of trying to brush your teeth, or eat you dinner with your non-dominant hand is enough to drive you to tears. That's how frustrating it is trying to change any habit suddenly. People who make sudden massive changes to their diet, or take up an extreme exercise programme know how difficult that is, and know how despite all the good intentions, the sudden change of habit is often too much for us. The diet is broken and forgotten, the exercise programme is abandoned.

And so it was with my drinking. The good intentions of stopping completely, were abandoned at the first sign of stress or celebration. Oh, and what could be more stressful than trying to change a habit? Or more reason to celebrate than having achieved a weekend without drinking? It was like driving my car to the start of that track, before I knew it, second nature had taken over and I was halfway along it without even noticing. It was a bit of a catch 22!

So what about the gradual change of habit? Shown behaviourally to be more effective over the long term for developing healthy eating patterns or effective long-term exercise habits. The problem I found was that making gradual change to my drinking habits involved cutting down, either by sticking to just one or two glasses from a bottle or wine, or by having more days / special occasions / stressed moments / bored evenings when I didn't have a drink at all. What I found was that it takes a lot of will power to cut down, and the dis-inhibiting effect of alcohol reduced my ability to exert will power. So as soon as I had the first glass, my good intentions and plans had flown out of the window, I was back on that familiar and comfortable track, with less will power than before to make the effort to drive off the track onto difficult bumpy ground.

So where does this leave me in relation to changing my habits with alcohol? Well, I have the evidence of many years that indicate that (at the moment) it is too difficult for me to cut down gradually. I can do it for a while but eventually it's just easier to drive on the old familiar track all the time again. For me the only way to break the habit was to do it suddenly and make a new track across the field. It was difficult because at every stressful moment I wanted to slip into the comfort of that old track, the way I could go without having to think about it. I had to use everything I could find to help me create a new path, particularly the support of people on here who encourage me and cheer from the sidelines when I drive across the ground on the new path (especially in the early days, when I needed much encouragement hour by hour and day by day). I also created a series of road blocks to make access to the old track difficult: not having my favourite wine in the wine-rack; choosing to be the driver on a night out; and brushing my teeth with strong toothpaste so that I knew the taste of wine would be vile.

I also did, and still do, make a lot of effort to make it easier for me to take the new path: I have clear tactics for an evening out; I have my fridge stocked with lovely refreshing juices; I set off most days deliberately heading for the new path. I also step back from the whole scene sometimes, view it from afar and I notice how much better I feel, how my mood is happier, how much money I've saved, how much I enjoy waking up in the morning without a hangover.

But I'm not complacent. I look at the ground and I see that the new path is more visible initially, and the old track is becoming overgrown and indistinct. It no longer feels awkward to drive in the new direction and I'm enjoying the different view. However I am all too aware that beneath the new grass and weeds, the old track was a deep, well worn route, and that it wouldn't take much driving along it for it to be back in use. So I continue to post here, to give and seek support and encouragement, and I continue with my deliberate approach to maintaining the new path. I hope in time that mud and earth will fill the ruts on the old track and I might even be able to drive across it occasionally without worrying about falling in, but that feels like a dangerous route for now. I am enjoying my new habit, it suits me.

venusandmars · 15/05/2011 10:54

Great apologies for that ENORMOUS post. Felt good to write it though Smile

lovecorrie · 15/05/2011 11:28

Fabulous post - really inspiring thank you xx

BBwannaB · 15/05/2011 11:42

Thank you Venus that was a wonderful and insightful post. Thank you for being so articulate, I could never express the way that I feel so well, all I can say is yes, yes, you are so right. That is why I am here too, I need to feel that common purpose and support although I haven't had a drink now for many months, the longest stretch in my adult life, i know I could find that old trach again so easily.
Lovecorrie take the advice from Venus this could be your moment, but it is all in the intention and the planning. Take the new track, one day at a time. The support is here for you.

BBwannaB · 15/05/2011 11:44

sorry, sobriety has not improved my typing Grin

lucilastic · 15/05/2011 12:47

Amazing post Venus. Thank you so much for taking the time to type it. I have fallen off the wagon again. Am so disappointed with myself. Why am I so weak? Drinking just makes everything worse in the end yet still I can't resist.
Going to read your post again tomorrow Venus. For me cutting down gradually is never going to be an option, for all the reasons you mention.

qo · 15/05/2011 12:50

venus what a wonderful post - and although I'm only 3 weeks(today!!) away from my old path, you managed to sum up exactly how I feel about it too!

Well I had the most fantatsic, amazing day yesterday, despite the weather, but boy am I paying for it now!

I'm sore, tired and have an extremely sore throat from screaming at the foo-fighters!!! definitely getting too old for this malarkey I don't know how I used to manage it pissed!!

I was right at the front from tinie tempah onwards and I'm so vain that I've watched most of the footage on iplayer to see if I can see myself hehe!!Got a great picture of dave grohl I will try to upload it so you can see. the foos were just fooking awesome, I can't wait to see them again in July!!

mouse how are you feeling today? I'm going to sort out some links for you presently - I'll pm you xx

Hope everybody is safe and happy, I'll be back later after I've finished scouring the bbc footage and had some more sleep Grin

ciao for now

p.s. here's how close I was to the man himself

i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x460/ekc1972/4.jpg

qo · 15/05/2011 12:52

forgot to say how lovely it is to wake up hangover free and remember the whole event!! Grin

GollyHolightly · 15/05/2011 12:55

Great post, Venus! I'd add to that, that when you first drive out of the ruts you're going to find it a bit bumpy, but the more you drive around on the open ground the more it's going to flatten out Grin

Luci try not to beat yourself up too much, what's done is done. I have no idea why we do it when we know it only makes things worse. That's why we're here I guess! (on this thread)

I had a good night last night. Dh went to a mate's house (20 miles away, he stayed over). This used to be a cue for me to get blotto with no-one to police me once the kids were in bed (when dd1 still went to bed earlier than I did!). Dd1 was supposed to be going to a sleepover last night and I had spent all day wrestling with thoughts of drinking but in the end she decided to stay home. Dd2 has a friend over for a sleepover and they vanished upstairs very early and me and dd1 ended up watching eurovision together and it was lovely! I have to make the most of those occasions because they're hugely rare.

thornrose · 15/05/2011 13:00

Venus, that is a fantastic post.
Lovecorrie, you sound like me a couple of weeks ago. I am on day 11 without a drink but I have to say I am finding it harder rather than easier.
I can congratulate myself on all the positives about not drinking, and there are many. A part of me is really not convinced. I'm talking the talk but not sure I'm really walking the walk.
The problem for me is after a few days sober I start to think positively about drinking, if that makes sense. I forget the downsides and feel actually it wasn't that bad.
I worry that I haven't reached the "rock bottom" that perhaps you need to get to before you can really give up.
However, I will keep on the new track and I will not be drinking again today.

lucilastic · 15/05/2011 13:55

I think it is so common for us to forget the downside of drinking after a few days of sobriety. This is why I fall off the wagon every time. Despite all evidence suggesting I am a problem drinker/binger/alcoholic, my mind still tells me after a few days of "good behaviour" that it's ok to have a drink.
Hell, I deserve it! I am wrong every single time and drink defeats me again. [pathetic icon]

lovecorrie · 15/05/2011 14:44

Well, I've made up for not making it to the pool this morning and just been and done 20 lengths Grin Feel much better for it too...now, to keep myself busy and alert and wave the bus back down..

BBwannaB · 15/05/2011 15:38

Rose I don't think you have to reach a rock bottom moment. In my case with a very tolerant DH and coping OK with work, plenty of money to fund the habit etc, I'm not sure that there would ever have been a rock bottom moment, but there was a window of opportunity - a desire to change coupled with stumbling across the support offered by the Brave Babes. A lifeline was offered and I seized it. You have been doing so well, try to keep at it if you can, ODAAT.

lovecorrie · 15/05/2011 15:45

I don't really believe in the 'rock bottom' as I've had hundreds of them Grin. I was drinking first thing in the morning and carrying on all day every day about 15 years ago - was that my rock bottom? Or it could have been blacking out every night a few years ago - actually not that long ago Blush Whilst I was at AA , everyone kept asking me about my 'rock bottom' and it isn't always like that is it - I would liken it to a dawning realization and just well wanting to keep trying, which is where I am now - I hope . ODAAT!

Mouseface · 15/05/2011 15:50

Hello Babes.

Corrie - glad to see that you are back and posting. This is not an easy journey you are on, you will slip, you will fall, you will fuck up. BUT - all of that, all of your falls and fuck ups will make you stronger, more determind to go forward. Keep posting, keep talking to us and telling us what you feel. Smile

venus - you wise lady you. What an eye opening and inspriational post. I heart you.

luci - here, have a {{{{{hug}}}}}. Habit. A cyclical habit. A habit that only we can changes as individuals. I hate that habit too. Hang in their sweets xx

I managed a few hours sleep last night. I'm still so exhausted. DH got up with Nemo to feed him this morning so I managed some more restless sleep.

I am so fed up of saying I'm tired when people ask me what's wrong. I go to bed exhausted, I wake exhausted.

And the pain is bad again today, something I'm sick and tired of too.

Anyway, DH and I have been a couple for 6 years today. 6 years ago, he told me he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Something nice to share with you all. Smile

OP posts:
lucilastic · 15/05/2011 16:08

Thank you Mouse. I am so sorry you are so tired. Although I don't have a child with complex needs like Nemo, I do remember the relentless slog of a newborn and a 19 month old and I totally understand. Add pain on top of it and it is almost too much to bear.
It sounds like you have a lovely OH and you so deserve him.
Thinking of you.

Mouseface · 15/05/2011 16:22

Thanks luci. That's the great thing about this Bus, you've all been in my shoes re children or/and booze. I think that's what makes this the best support network, the very fact that we all have something in common. Smile xx

OP posts:
lovecorrie · 15/05/2011 16:38

So odd, my eldest dd just sent me a text asking me 'when did you know you had a problem with drink?' She went through an awful lot - a terrible time when she was little. I can never give her that back, I just have to carry on trying for her and the youngest ones Sad

lucilastic · 15/05/2011 17:56

How old was she when you think she noticed? My daughters are 4.5 and 2. I hope they are oblivious...

Mouseface · 15/05/2011 18:09

Corrie - My DD remembers my drunken nights Blush. She says she much preffers the way I am now. She can recall excruciating details of my drunken nights, falling over, puking, losing shoes, keys and money etc..... she was 5 FFS, and if only I knew how my behaviour was doing to her.

I was supposed to be taking care of her, not her me. How very stupid and dangerous my behaviour was. Again, like you, I can't give her that back but if you make amends, I think that will speak volumes to your children.

Start over, you have the chance to so take it. Be honest with them if they ask questions, tell them everything.

Off to bath Nemo soon. And then it's date night. Smile

OP posts:
GollyHolightly · 15/05/2011 18:11

I don't want to sound too harsh here, but even at 4.5 a child will know when something's different. If she's seen you drunk (ie you haven't waited until she's in bed) then she may not understand but she'll know that you're not yourself.

I had a chat with dd1 fairly recently (when I told her about going to AA) and she says she first became aware of it when my mum died, which is three years ago, so when she was 11. It was probably about then when she started going to bed later and I wouldn't/couldn't wait for her to be out of the way before opening a bottle. I was hiding it even back then and most worryingly she told me that at first she thought it was drugs because she didn't see me with a glass in my hand Confused

I do think I've largely 'got away with it' with dd2 (she's 12 now) but that's largely because she still goes to bed at a reasonable hour and is fast asleep within seconds of her head hitting the pillow.

A friend of mine's daughter told her at the age of 5 that she preferred it when mummy wasn't drunk, which is sad don't you think? She's still drinking, btw, and regularly leaving her now teenaged daughter to look after her 8yr old whilst she's in the pub. I hear fairly regular tales via her daughter (who is my dd's good friend) that she's kicked off when she's come home drunk and things aren't exactly as she wants them. She even kicked a bunch of teens (14/15) out into the night with no-where to go because they'd been smoking in the house. They were supposed to be staying for a sleepover and none of them lived in the same village Shock

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