DH arrested for drink driving again

[caesar04]

Happened on Sunday after work.
1st conviction 6.5 years ago just before we got married. Was touch and go whether I would go through with wedding. He has a history of alcohol issues prior to 1st conviction, lost a job through drinking, offended friends and family, arrested for drunk and disorderly.
But since that 1st conviction things have been so much better, almost non existent until fairly recently when a few incidents have crept in, drunk at work 3 weeks ago (he works in catering so v long and unsociable hours with drink readily available, also big culture of drinking), one night with family where he was supposed to be looking after DCs so I could have a drink (1st time since dd born) but he got drunk instead.

However those are only instances I know about, I feel sure there are more. After the incident at work (formal warning given) he went to GP and made appointment at alcohol service but had to work so cancelled it.

He rarely drinks at home or in social situations where I am there (watching him like a hawk usually) but it appears to be linked to stress and working, 1st conviction exactly same situation.

I feel I have no choice but to ask him to leave and for us to temporarily separate, we now have 2DCs, DS 2.10 ans DD 5 months.

this isn't what I want really but think this will shock him into getting help and stopping altogether, I have asked him to do this several times but he seems unable to do this.

He is a fantastic father and we generally have a good relationship, together for 12 years, married for 6.5. Have had a very tough 18 months, business went under and we were very nearly bankrupted, managed to settle debts but still owe friends a family thousands. It was hugely stressful but actually payment plans in place and we are, I thought, slowly returning back to normal.
Evidently not.

Has anyone experienced drinking issues like this?
Any advice would be appreciated.

The above two posts may seem rather harsh but I for one agree with them. It is a lethal weapon in someones hands and in the instance of the OP I have a feeling that there is a lot more going to come out.

And without sounding hard I wouldnt put a period of time on when he can/may (whatever word you want to use) return to the marital home. I know some wives would not let their OH's back with a minimum time limit of one year and in some cases it just didnt work so dont limit yourself or give him false hope that he may get back home after this short space of time. Some people with drink problems think that if they stop for x time then all will be ok but it is a lot harder than that and a year is not that long in our life time really and it is a realistic time for them. And when I say a year I mean a year from their last drink ... take a drink after 3 months and the years wait starts again ..........

What was his reading on the breat test. DH's car got hit by a drunk driver last year and the driver blew nearly 4x the limit. However she'd managed to drive 10 miles without incident at that point and the police said for the reading to be so high she had a serious alcohol problem - anyone else would have been unable to move. So knowing his reading could maybe give an idea of how much of a regular drinker he is? Not an expert though, just going on what the police said to me.

I think you've had some good advice from others. What does he say about whats happened?

You are doing the right thing OP.

Anothermum is wise - don't say he's moving out for three months - that will sound to him like his 'punishment'.

He is moving out because you don't want to stay married to man who would drink and drive - unless he decides to not be that man, you won't want him to come back. You will move on without him.

Make him understand this.

Drink drivers are scum - reckless, selfish, life-endangering scum.

I have never posted in Relationships before but felt I had to say something after reading your post Caesar. My DH had a drink problem which peaked about 5 years ago.
After every incident he would be remorseful and ashamed, but then it would happen again. I was at my wit's end every time and didn't know what to do for the best. He is/was a lovely man, caring, considerate, a good Dad, hard working, etc but it seemed that his problem with alcohol was going to ruin everything.
One particular incident was a turning point for me and I called his parents, sister and brother and told them what had been happening. I told him I was disgusted and ashamed and what he stood to lose if his behaviour continued - ie his family, his home, business, driving licence, self respect, etc. I told him in no uncertain terms if anything like that was to ever happen again then I would make him leave, and I meant it. I pointed out that the DC and I would be ok - but he would lose the lot. I said if that is what he wanted then to carry on, but if he wanted to turn things around then I would support him all the way. He was very shocked and upset as I think it was the first time he had realised the severity of the problem.
In the end he went to his GP and went to counselling for a long time, and to AA meetings and now, touch wood, he is ok. They say that drink problems like this can never be totally cured, I don't know. I can share a bottle of wine now with DH without him wanting to carry on into oblivion, his drinking is now within normal healthy levels, he has learnt to understand when he has had enough. I'm not ruling out a relapse in the future but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
I think the main point is that that your DH needs to accept his problem and seek help himself, which you have recognised. Make him see the path he's going down and everything he will lose if he doesn't step up to the mark and sort himself out. If he can't see it there's not much more you can do apart from take care of yourself and your DCs.

I would also like to point out OP that Alcoholics Anonymous is not just for alcoholics ....... it is for people who think they may have a drink problem and want to do something about it ............... so that leaves the door open for lots of people and let me tell you that the people that go to AA are the salt of the earth.

Best Wishes xx

QP Thank you for supportive words, made me teary all over again but not in a bad way! Have been looking at site Bunnyjo linked and it has slightly differing info to the one I saw but it seems that he might get community service but I think that would not be a bad thing.

Hopefully in some way related to drink driving/alcohol.

I am desperately worried about the fine and realise it will be large, it is related to pay however and as I'm on SMP I am hoping judge isn't too harsh, not sure if its household income or just dh's?

Our incomes are joint, ironically we moved to a joint account late last year after 12 years of separate ones.
But that was to do with all financial probs we had and expat it was a business related bankruptcy not our personal debt although we owe to family and friends so are paying that back its not like we have creditors breathing down our necks anymore. But we can ill afford a huge fine. and no he doesn't need to drive for his job, he works in catering which makes drink easily accessible, both arrests were after work in early hours of morning.

But think I am getting ahead of myself there, no point in worrying about it, I cannot influence what judge will decide. Will have to deal with that when it comes.

Darth your post sent shivers through me, cannot imagine how awful that was and the thought of him potentially driving with our dcs in the car makes me feel ill. And strengthens my resolve.

Anothermum I haven't said 3 months to him, just thought that would be long enough to get counselling going and things more settled and could re-assess the situation. Have just said move out temporarily.
Not sure what you mean when you say there more to come out? In terms of his drinking then yes I agree, have already said I think he has been hiding the depth of the problem from me.

ShaggyHA What kind of a drinker was your ex H?

Opps crazy bold there!

Mrs Levison
Sounds so familiar to our situation. After the first arrest I had that same convo with him but we had no dcs then, was about 3 weeks before our wedding, 6.5 years ago. And there were no real big incidents (that I know of) till a few weeks ago when he was drunk at work.
The big difference is that he did not get the right help then and so it has now come up again.

I'm starting to think that the drinking had been steadily on the increase fro months without me realising it, he has hidden it well but also DD born in Dec after awful pg with HG, I've not been exactly with it over the last year.

The guy sounds like a drinker. The fact he couldn't hold off drinking for 1 night says a lot. He's a danger with children coz of it. He needs to find himself some help. Seems to me he must be lying about how often/much he's drinking too. If you wana stay with him whatever, thats your choice but I don't think he'll quit if you say nothing. Personally, I'd want to have it out with him.

Yes OP the degree of his drinking is only one thing that will come out. If a patient goes to a doc and says he drinks 'x' amount a day, doctors actually multiply that by 4 and if im honest they are usually nearer the mark.

Trust me OP I WAS THAT ALCOHOLIC too, so im not talking without experience and that is how I know a year is a short length of time to be away from family while trying to get help re stopping drinking AND STAYING STOPPED ......... trust me that is the hardest bit.

I could sit and tell you a million horror stories that I heard whilst I attended AA meetings but that is not what this thread is about.

All I'm trying to say is dont expect a quick (3 months minimum) recovery, it takes most people at least two years to start getting better and the time they are away from family they get to themselves to 'get better' and so do the partners and the family members.

If you found out the amount of alcohol that your DH actually did drink per day/week/month and i dont think i'd be wrong in thinking that he would be over the safe limit of units for a man in a week but for him is would be for a day. Its sad but people on here will help you but best of all (sorry MNers) in my eyes is Alanon but mners are always around so that may make it easier for you, I'm not aware if anyone on here knows about the Twelve Step Recovery Programme for partners of alcoholics/problem drinkers. I only know it from the other side.

Hope someone else can help you more.

ShoutyHamster - "Drink drivers are scum - reckless, selfish, life-endangering scum".
What a stupid, over the top, childish post, a stupid generalisation from somebody too stupid to know any better.

bbird
I don't know why you would defend drink-drivers. Yes, we have all been in the situation where we have had a drink or two and feel perfectly capable of driving but know that logically there is a good chance that we would be over the limit.

A responsible adult then puts his car keys down and gets a taxi.

Last week we went out for a drink with friends. I almost drove home, I felt fine. But I knew I was over the limit. So we walked. By the time we walked home, I was feeling rather more worse for the wear and was so glad that I had not driven.

If I had driven, I could have caused an accident - because my reactions would have been slower - and yes, I could have endangered a life.

There are reasons for having a limit on how much alcohol you can have in your bloodstream before you are deemed unfit to drive. It was not a number plucked out of a hat. When you are over the limit you are a danger to yourself and others.

Every single word absolutely 100% true, bbird1... unfortunately.

I don't even need to BEGIN to explain why.

Thankfully the OP knows it, which is why she's taking the decisive action that anyone with a drink driver in the family knows they should. I take it you think differently.

Hey, a quick one for the road never hurt anyone, RIGHT? - you absolute PRICK.

Maybe read around a bit, hey? Start with DarthNiqabi's post, for example.

I'll say it again, which is not like me - you absolute PRICK.

Two incidents in six years is not a pattern. Two incidents in six years does not make him an alcoholic.

This is probably born of his job being stressful.

However just because he has been caught twice does not mean he has not done it before.

If he works six nights a week and drinks six nights or cannot work without drinking the job is a problem, specifically if he does not drink at home.

Maybe you need to look at his job and decide whether or not it is worth it.

I think asking him to move out is extreme to be honest, he isn't a serial drink driver.

The fine is not based on your income but on his.

Two incidents in 6 yrs is twice he's actually been caught.

Drink driving, quite rightly is one of the most seriously considered offences under the ROA.

I hope they throw the book at him.

Two incidents in six years mean that he is a person who thinks that it is acceptable to drink and drive.

That's surely a dealbreaker for any decent person - the actual pattern of his drinking notwithstanding.

It's a completely different ballgame... because ultimately, he is prepared to take the risk of killing an innocent person. Going to jail. Destroying both his family and that of his victim. It's not 'over the top' (!) to say that... it happens every day.

Fabby, you say he isn't a serial drink driver... surely the point is that if he's been caught twice, it's quite likely that he IS? It's pretty improbable that both times he's done it, he's been caught. I should think that OP knows in her heart that he possibly drives over the limit on a regular basis.

And for me, it wouldn't be about getting caught. It would be that the person I spend my life with thinks it's ok to behave like that. To love and care for your own children yet get in the car drunk and not think that you could easily end up killing one. It's a despicable thing to do.

If he drinks six nights a week at such a level that: a) he's getting in trouble at work and his job is in jeopardy b) he's been caught drink driving again c) he has a past pattern of troublesome drinking, then he has a problem.

A big one.

A possible 3-year-ban, community service, big whopping fine one.

lots of people have very stressful jobs. It is not an excuse to get drunk every night.

Wouldn't one arrest put most people off drink driving for life? Having lost a job due to drunkenness before, wouldn't you be awfully careful about staying sober in the next one? Wouldn't somebody with a normal attitude, both to alcohol and to being arrested/sacked, learn from their experiences?

Agree with ShoutyHamster that he'd have to have been extraordinarily unlucky to be pulled over by a spot check on the only two occasions in 6 years that he'd had a few before driving home, however hot on random checks his area may be. Far more likely he was driving in a fashion likely to attract the attention of the police. That means badly affected and that means DANGEROUS.

Threads about problem drinking often start to get bogged down in whether it is accurate to call the drinker an alcoholic. The definition is irrelevant though, really, when you get down to it. The person's and their family's life (and potentially the person they knock down) are all affected by their inability not to imbibe too much of a consciousness-altering substance. It's worse in a way when the drinker is a lovely person most of the time, because in addition to the stupid risks they are taking with someone else's life they are also shortening their own.

I'm not anti-alcohol, by the way. I like a slug of Baileys or the odd half-bottle of sparkling rosé (tasteless ain't I!) as much as the next hedonist, and what is an Occasion without champagne? I just don't do it when I know I'm going to be driving any time soon. When someone loses (or deliberately gives up) their ability to make a choice - when the drink comes before what they need to be sober for - then they've got a problem, whatever you choose to call it.

The OP has stated that this man has a history of alcohol abuse and that she feels the need to constantly police his drinking. The fact that he has been done for drink-driving TWICE is a massive deal. This probably indicates that he driven drunk other times and just not been caught. OP, you can choose to continue to prop this man up or you can walk away and let him decide what he is going to do. The tension that his drinking causes WILL impact on your dcs, no matter that you both think they are too young to notice. Also, how will you ever trust him to remain sober when looking after the dcs when you are not there? Only you can make the decision, but I suspect that you will not realise the true extent of his problem until you leave him. Been there, done that and will live with the consequences of my exh's drinking mess-ups forever. And trust me, it's no fun when you have to explain to your dcs that daddy's going to prison. I'm just thankful that his idiocy never caused anyone's death - but that was purely due to luck.

OP, Quint is absolutely right - you are being incredibly brave and strong.

It must have come as the most awful shock, after 6 years when you thought the man you loved had beaten his demons.

I echo AnotherMumOnHere - it will take considerably more than 3 months before anyone can consider your DH to be in control of his drinking. My stepdad made his first attempt to stop about 4 years before he actually managed to.

And MrsLevinson's DH is unusual in being able to drink in moderation now. Most people with a drink problem are entirely unable to do so. My stepdad was dry for well over 2 years when he was Christmas shopping one year and the local shopping centre was giving away free mulled wine. He thought there would be no harm in just one, but ended up back on 2 bottles of vodka a day within a week. He can't even kiss my Mum if she's had a drink, because he can taste it on her lips, and innocuous puddings like sherry trifle are completely out in their house.

Every morning, when he wakes, my stepdad turns to my Mum and promises her that he won't drink today. It's the best he can do. Even after 20 years dry, he can't promise the woman he loves that he won't ever drink again.

My stepdad was a coach driver when he stopped drinking. That sends chills down his spine now, when he thinks about it.

I'm not telling you these things to hurt you, or to shock you. Other posters have done well enough at that. But you do need to understand that your life won't ever be quite the same again, even if your DH does stop drinking (and I pray that he does).

I called my parents last night and told them of your situation. My stepdad runs part of AA's national helpline (the one that either alcoholics or their families/friends can call when they're desperate for help). He said that he would be honoured if either you or your DH want to call him - anytime - to talk about the situation you're in. He won't put any pressure on either of you, he's just really good at letting people talk and find their own solutions. It helps that he's been there. My Mum would be happy to talk to you - as one person who loves an alcoholic to another - but doesn't feel able to talk to your DH because she isn't "qualified" (in the loosest sense of the word).

If you'd like my parents' contact details then PM me.

On a practical note, please think about telling your family and friends about the recent turn of events. It makes things real in a way that they aren't if kept within the family (and they'll find out anyway when he's banned from driving). It may be that some or all would be willing to waive your debt repayments until you've cleared the fine.

Very best wishes, xxx

BTW, my parents' offer is to speak to anyone who wants to talk - it's not restricted to just the OP.

He is a "serial" drunk driver if he's been arrested twice, and the law recognises that.

2 drink driving convictions within 10 years is a pattern, a pattern the law recognises as one that makes him dangerous.

The ways people try to minimise and justify drinking that is not only clearly problematic, but criminal, are amazing. Like if they can define alcoholism just right they won't have to consider that they (or someone they know) is not able to control their drinking.

Namechanged
My dh had similar problem to the OP.
Two drink driving convictions, no prison sentence, but on one of those occasions wasn't actually driving the vehicle, just in charge of it (i.e. stationary) if that makes sense. Repercussions were large fines, long term on record, extortionate insurance, expensive car written off.
I reported him myself too, I knew it was likely he'd be driving home. I couldn't do otherwise.

He drank in similar pattern to your dh, AA said it was a form of alcoholism, and like your dh he blamed it on drinking and entertaining culture for his clients.

He always got better for a while, but would always eventually revert back to old ways. He gave up with AA.

I'd recommend contacting Al anon, for yourself at least. I made him leave too.