Genuine question to those in bad relationships.

[upahill]

I have read over the years on this forum some terrible stories of how supposedly 'D'P's speak to and treat their wives and girlfriends

I hear how lazy some husbands are and of some right stinking sense of entitlement some of them have.
I have been genuinely shocked by some of the stories.

Out of curoristy those that are in bad relationships,were your partners always cruel. Did you see any bad traits in them before you moved in together or was it a gradual decline?

I have a couple of friends that have ended up in lousy relationships that more or less the rest of the population could see would end in tears - except them. There was no convincing them that their choice of bloke was the fella from the depths of hell. They had to discover that for themselves.

for me it was a gradual decline.

Yes the signs are always there, but you don't always see them.

Also, abusive men are usually quite nice till they get you trapped (by this I mean pregant or married) and then it usually starts.

There's some nasty bastards out there!!

I'm comforting a work colleague at the moment whose DH has changed beyond recognition because he has 'got in with the wrong crowd!!

He is a 36 year old father of 3 not a daft 14 year old!

A relationship is never abusive at the start or women would run a mile, the abuse starts to happen over a period of time probably with small signs to start with, general nit picking etc, then over time the abuse gets gradually worse.
However, by the time a relationship becomes verbally, emotionally or physically abusive an abusive man has managed to chip away at his partners self-esteem and she believes him when he tells her she's fat, ugly, etc.

Abusive men are lower than low.

I understand about the control and abusive relationships and how it eats away at confidence.
Sometimes though when I read about the women whose husbands/partners won't help with the childcare/housework because 'it is not their job' I wonder if clues were there before hand.

I can think of a relationship I had where there was a red flag flying in front of my face warning me that I would have had a life of hell if I stayed with him and for a while I was soooo tempted thinking things would be ok but I broke away.

I think the realtionship board on here is hearbreaking at times because you only have one life and some people are going through hell.

I do think it comes from what they have seen growing up or their own low self esteem. I agree every person I have ever known to be in a relationship that is controlling or with the man having a sense of entitlement most of us could see it was going to end badly from the first hour of meeting the man. It has happened with a couple of my friends and I think some people just havent got the radars for whatever reasion to tell whether a man is good to be decent or not.

I think women in those situations are so blinded sometimes that even when loads of people tell them its a bad idea they dont want to believe it.

I think that there is a point at which the man in question will "tell you who he is" and (rather than listen) what many women do is reason away the behaviour e.g. "He only does this because/ This isn't who he really is...." and they mistakenly believe that their love, care, etc will transform man and enable him to behave differently.

After a while they have invested too much time (into the relationship) to abandon it , their confidence has been eroded, or they believe themselves to be too old to start over.

IMO, the environment you grow up in is crucial especially in early relationships

I had so many red flags - I met my inlaws, FFS! - did I pay any attention?
No.
Sometimes we are own own's worst enemy.

Yes the red flags and alarm bells were there in full force but I was only 19 and too young to know how it would turn out.

Possesive and abusive behaviour from the outset and I stupidly ignored a previous incident of stalking his ex. By the time I knew I should run, child number one was on the way.

Important not to blame ourselves. The position of women in relationships has probably improved over generations, we are much more sure of what is and is not acceptable, and thank god we have resources and support to help us keep our head above water if it does all implode.

If men who feel entitled to treat women this way were like it from the outset, and if we weren't so hopelessly romantic at times, the human species would have died out altogether!

I also think the double standards about sex/partners comes into play somewhat. If a man shags 2 dozen women before he settles down and marries, it's one thing, if a woman does the same it's another.

For a woman to admit that a relationship is not working, even if it's only boyfriend and girlfriend, she feels like she's failed, and not managed to pick THE one she is supposed to be with. The more relationships she has, the more the loss of face and then the determination to make THIS one work. Doesn't matter that he's vile to her, she can't be seen to have picked another wrongun.

I think abusive men often gravitate towards women who are vulnerable - I know if my parents had still been alive, my Ex would never have come within a mile of me, but having no family of my own it was easy for him to isolate me (and then also over time tell me none of my friends actually liked me, that they all laughed at me behind my back etc!).

I was also in a situation where everyone around me thought he was wonderful, and although I tried to allude to how bad it was, no-one seemed to believe me, or want to believe me. They saw us argue, scream and shout at each other, and thought nothing of it. Even now very few people in RL know the full story of what went on.

Hatesponge - same here. Over time my ex told me the same, that none of my friends liked me and actually laughed at me behind my back. He always told me it was always just me and him.

Same well liked charismatic guy and a lot of people still don't know the full story.

I've been mulling this over as I look back at the past and think WTF?! about some of the things I have put up with.

In my case the common thread was that somehow or other I felt responsible for these men's mental states and feelings. I was drawn to men who seemed exciting but who were actually fairly dysfunctional emotionally. Compassion for the lonely, hurt, lost bits of them quickly turned into feeling that I had failed if I couldn't help them and then that I could not add to the pain by making them feel bad and then that I couldn't leave as that would destroy them and I couldn't justify putting another human being through such pain.

Unfortunately the kind of men I picked (sounds as if there have been loads but actually only a few due to difficulty getting out of relationships ) were only too happy to go along with this view of things and I was quickly under their large hairy self-pitying thumbs.

I don't think we should blame ourselves too much though, these men are usually very persuasive and at first, charismatic and exciting. They also usually become nice just as you are deciding you have had enough, thus winning themselves a number of 11th hour reprieves.

It really does represent a colossal waste of women's time, talent, and emotional energy. If I had put half the effort into my career - and shown half the perseverance in the face of being kicked in the teeth...!

Upahill, the man I left (after 8 years) was if I'm honest never inclined to think well of other women, his colleagues seemed to be judged harshly for reasons I didn't understand (but I thought, I don't have to work with them). He seemed to judge his mother harshly too, and was unsympathetic and critical of all her decisions (but again, I thought, who am i to judge their parent/child relationship). At that point he was very courteous to me but of course that didn't last long.

It was like the pp says, everytime I decided 'right this is not right' he'd sense it and be nice for a while (a lot of effort for him I think) and so the cycle was prolonged. Really wish I'd left him sooner, but what can I do now but look forward not back.

Hatesponge, so true. The vulnerability is what attracts these guys. I had just been dumped in the run up the millenium hype and was a bit 'raw'. Most sane guys would have steered clear, or just been my friend.

Ficklefreckle, yes I had that too re friends; "people like you to begin with but they soon get to know your true colours". huh? have been friends with people since school. He had hardly any friends in comparison. He told me I'd been sacked by every boss I'd ever had (not true, had been re-located, made redundant, sacked ONCE I think!) my parents apparently despaired of me. My brothers pitied me, my friends thought I was a chaotic loser.

I'm in a bad relationship at the moment. I should have seen the clues, but I'd recently split up from a long term relationship & was very vulnerable.

I've been with 'D'H for 10 years. I thought it was brilliant to start with, he said all the right things, was kind and generous. I thought I was a strong woman - the one my friends turned to for advice. Not so.

I am begining to realise that he has very slowly chipped away my sense of who I am, to the point that I accept his behaviour as the norm, all problems in our relationship are down to me.

I gave up my career, we have 2 DCs now, the youngest is 8 weeks old. I can't leave. He says he won't divorce me, he married for life. he controls everything that I do & there is no way out.

Oh Vivee, it's all so text book. I met my x just after being dumped by somebody I really loved, in the run up to the millenium! i can laugh now, but ...... it wasn't funny. He started out being generous too.

But there is a way out. You have to believe that you deserve the chance to escape. Would you please ring women's aid.

How dare he tell you that he married for life and that's the end of it? He may say he will never divorce you will divorce him when you have got back a bit of strength. Having a baby exhausting. I left my x when dc2 was 14months old. I'd gone round and round it all in my head, made lists of pros and cons of staying (no pros !).

There is a way out Vivee. You can get out.

He's taken away my voice & silenced me. If I leave he says he will take the childern away from me. he laughs at me when i tell him how I feel.

I'm trying to keep it all normal for the DCs. Contacting WA means that I have failed.

I know you are taliking sense, valium, but I haven't reached that piont where I can walk away yet.

This is classic Vivee, you should really start your own thread because you will get some excellent practical advice and some words of wisdom to help you emotionally, to get through this. You WILL get through it because you can't just shrug and accept this life. I understand that you have two young children, but just see it as preparing your mind. Accept that the relationship is over, and that the rosy 2 parent family you thought you were going to have is gone. Once you've mourned that loss, it's easier to walk away I think. If you're still coming to terms with the fact that your husband is a bully, I think no matter how horrible he is, you stay because you haven't fully grieved for the marriage you thought you were going to have, and accepted the life you are going to have (as a single person)

I know what you mean about not having reached the point to leave yet though. SO don't think that I'm telling you to 'leave him tonight' and I'm going to think tut you can't help some people if you don't leave him! seriously, I'm so not. I get it.

I spent years working up to being ready to leave him. Some people told me I was 'brave' to leave him, but actually I left it so late to leave him that sleeping under a bridge with my kids taken from me would have been preferable at that point. He had become so relentlessly nasty.

It's classic text book bully boy controlling techniques he's using on you. Telling you that he can take the children. My x tried that stunt too.

You say that ringing WA would mean that you have failed. But you haven't failed. The marriage has failed YES, but that is something that you can recover from eventually. You probably feel so exhausted anyway that ringing WA couldn't possibly make you feel any worse could it?? Ringing WA will not make you feel more of a failure I promise you. They won't pressurise you to DO anything you're not ready to do either.

vsx

thanks, vs. Sorry you have also been through shit. 'H' used to do that thing of trying to be nice, when I saw through him & questioned things, but its now full on unpleasantness.

I have a lot of thinking to do.

You have not failed ViVee.

Ring WA even if its just to chat.

Knowledge is power

Yes, it helps make you feel less crazy when you understand all the little manipulation techniques these guys use.

Eg by shouting at a partner if she asks him to help with the children, he may deliberately and successfully creating a situation where the woman can never complain because the cost of speaking out is simply too high. Easier to do all the childcare and sacrifice your entire life to his convenience than listen to hours and hours of abuse and criticism.

There is a book that a lot of the women on mn have read called 'why does he do that?' by Lundy Bancroft. I haven't read it myself but it is supposed to be really helpful at seeing these behaviours for the devious manipulation techniques that they are.

you have not failed at all please contact womens aid

how does the relationship get to that point, well they are usually the most loving men to begin with, make you feel like you are the only thing that is important to them and put you on a pedestal, their jealousy is because they love you so much they can not help but be scared that they may loose you. the little digs start, they get more frequent but it was all so good i must be doing something wrong and before you know it your confidence is gone you are kicked firmly off that pedestal and scramble to get back on it by pressing them and its a vicious circle they jsut bring you down emotionally and for some physical abuse starts too

thats how it often happens, looking back you can see the warning signs and you can see it in other relationships too but you can only learn from them, some sadly do no the first or second time, but you always always can move on and they will never change, you have to make the changes for yourself and its always possible no matter how hard or impossible it may seem

by pleasing them

not pressing them sorry typo

I think it's because it's so gradual.

They say if you put a frog into hop water it'll jump out instantly to save itself, but if you put it in to water and then heat it, it won't notice. And it is a bit like that.