Genuine question to those in bad relationships.

[upahill]

I have read over the years on this forum some terrible stories of how supposedly 'D'P's speak to and treat their wives and girlfriends

I hear how lazy some husbands are and of some right stinking sense of entitlement some of them have.
I have been genuinely shocked by some of the stories.

Out of curoristy those that are in bad relationships,were your partners always cruel. Did you see any bad traits in them before you moved in together or was it a gradual decline?

I have a couple of friends that have ended up in lousy relationships that more or less the rest of the population could see would end in tears - except them. There was no convincing them that their choice of bloke was the fella from the depths of hell. They had to discover that for themselves.

oh yeah bananasinpyjamas. I hear you. the easy life shag. tune out. feel crap. they 'payment' is that he is slightly less cranky with you though.

don't miss that !

I was not refering to any one person in particular. And never mind me insulting the intelligence of a lot of women....they wouldn't be putting up with this nonsense otherwise. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the signs are ALWAYS there. Just open your eyes and listen to your head. Don't be fannyblinded by mirroring or any other "technique" used to draw you in.
I've no need to go on the NPD thread - I simply wouldn't be putting up with one moment of nonsense from a partner. They are shown the door the first time the red flag appears.

Is that cos you've been through it and learnt or just think it's what you'd do if you were?

That last comment was for gay40 by the way, the easy life shag is just a way of trying to avoid being told how shit you are as a person if you don't succumb.

No, I've not had a bad relationship - fuckwits have been weeded out very very early on. My long term relationships (not loads) have all been good, but ended on a no-fault no-blame note. I guess I just know my own mind and I'm not willing to accept bad behaviour in a partner.

And I would, genuinely, rather be single than lower my standards.

I thought I was like that, not putting up with any shit until the shit was on my doorstep and I before long I was so dependent - not in my mind but in my situation - that it seemed impossible to get out. But that's where I am now and coming to terms with a big hole of no shit which in its own way is very hard to deal with.
Good for you for not putting up with it but those of us who do its not because we don't see it sometimes you can be manipulated into a situation which is very hard to break free from.

Aspects of living with someone such as their attitude to childcare or learning something new from a partner or their patience levels when they have very little sleep sometimes only come out when you're right there in the thick of it with a baby who won't sleep or a difficult toddler. I found out a lot about my exH that I would never have guessed when children came into the picture -- the jealousy of the children, his complete lack of patience and lack of interest in anyone else's thoughts on how to deal with babies and small children in a way that could be a win-win situation (his idea was spare the rod and spoil the child).

Most of what I thought was compatibility before we married was mirroring as Valium mentioned. The red flags are hard to incorporate into the general picture you have formed, because the mirroring really looks like the genuine article. They are so desperate for a relationship that they really can maintain a facade 24/7 and only let it slip for a minute or two -- and they can then earn brownie points by the apparently sincere apology.

The MO is to gradually pile on the stress to keep you constantly off balance, questioning your own sanity.

Gay40 you probably don't attract the kind of man who would cause you the sort of trouble described here.

Because Gay40 attracts women!

I have had a bad relationship - yes looking back there were big warning signs, but that's easy to see with hindsight. I was only 18 and away from home for the first time, didn't have a clue about men and relationships, had very low self-esteem, and was also very isolated (not close to my parents, no real friends) so felt I would be all alone in the world without him.

Now of course I'd much rather be single and alone than in such a demeaning and unhappy situation, but then now I'm older and more confident and happy in myself, and feel better able to manage on my own. I don't think I'd get into or put up with anything like that now (I too am horrified at many of the things I read on here). But I don't judge, because I know how it can happen given a manipulative man and the right (wrong?) set of circumstances.

Oh yes of course .. DUH [cblush]

To be honest I stand what I say regardless of sexuality. There's just as many fuckwitted women out there. I just don't have the male dynamic going on.
THANK HOLY GOD.

gay 40 there are not always warning signs at the beginning, if there were not as many would end up in the situations

good for you but this self righteous drivel i have heard from others who have themselves ended up in bad relationships and beign treated in a way they never thought they would but i do not ever say well i told you so or i would never do this or that because i have not walked in every other womens shoes

I think the signs are there from the start but with Hindsight you can now see those signs clearly.Whereas when you are first involved with someone they aren't as clear,so are easily overlooked.especially if you've never been in a relationship with an abusive person.

Also so many victims fall into the thoughts of'well he doesn't hit me,so its not abuse' and aren't so aware of the emotional waring down that comes first,eroding your self esteem.Plus the manipulation that comes with it,so you believe your the one causing the problems not them.

Its all a gradual process.If it wasn't you'd spot these men a mile off.

You'll also hear that everyone else see the abuser as such a wondeful guy and how lucky you are.I know thats how my H is seen.

I'm trying to get out now but its a struggle.If it was just H and me with no kids it would be so much easier.I feel I've failed them and wish I had walked away before I ever married the man.

i agree with what valium and wombling are saying; My few previous relationships had been good and all the men in my family and friends are good people. I had no idea/ did not believe that people could be so rubbish/ relationships could get so bad

wombin--i'm just leaving too and also feeling like I am failing the kids..but dont you think we will fail them more by staying?

Gay40, well done you for not being a fuckwitted stupid woman.

I hope that not being a fuckwit will give you the sensitivity and the judgment to know to stay quiet.

There are going to be threads you should stay well away from.

I was watching an old episode of Four Weddings last night and one of the brides said it was really sweet that the groom cried during his vows (he was marrying one of the other contestants). I thought 'maybe, but my exH cried at our wedding and at the birth of our children'. A few years later it was all too clear what I had let myself in for. He wanted a wife and family but we were like items on his tick list of 'How to have the perfect life'. He didn't want to BE a family. He always put work first, paid little attention to the children, and gradually displayed a greater sense of entitlement to my attention. He wanted to be the centre of the family, without any emotional investment himself.

After nine years, he was criticising me daily, would lose his temper and swear at the children, demanded sex most nights and made it very difficult for me to refuse, did nothing around the house (we both worked full time) and I dreaded him coming home.

I didn't see the signs at first. He'd been married previously, but so had I. He had a good job, a nice house, plenty of friends. He saw his widowed mum regularly and I adored her. On the surface, he still looks like a 'catch'. He's now on his second relationship since we split - I am not surprised the first didn't last as she had a daughter around DD2's age and I bet she could see that he was not good stepdad material. I wonder if the latest girlfriend realises what she has got herself into.

About two weeks ago I checked both my DDs' mobiles to find out whether they had as little contact with him as I suspected, or whether I was doing him a disservice. Unfortunately, I wasn't...often a week goes by with no contact at all, so no text or phone call. We only live 2.5 miles away. I know that he went four weeks without seeing DD1 because her PGL weekend was one of his contact weekends and he didn't bother to arrange to see her at another time. He may have cried tears of joy at their birth, but he has shown them little love since then.

I shouldn't be surprised at that - he showed me almost no love at all, once we were married.

I will agree the signs are always there from the very start so when your friends point them out to you LISTEN! They arent going to change, you cant justify what they are doing to you and its only going to get worse.

Its always better to leave than be with a man who doesnt respect you and treat you right.

by saying that the signs are always there its saying that all these men are the same and its a lot more complex than that. now there are men who are always or always try to control but at times other factors come in. some men start bullying because they feel lose of control in other areas of their lives, some are aware and try to behave differently but when the pressures start such as having children the bullying side comes out, sometimes its because they are cheating the guilt and the anger they feel at being trapped makes them behave this way and not every man that has cheated is a bully or a bad person

this is by no way excusing their behaviour but not every man who bullies has always done so and not all women go from abusive relationship to abusive relationship its not about loving too much or being desperate to be in a relationship. also by putting the blame on the women for putting up is once again judging women and not looking at the real problem and not placing the blame where it should really be and that is 100% with the abuser

Valiumbandwitch, because I refuse to collude in the victimisation of women? Maybe I should keep quiet and just allow people to wallow in their gradual slide into subjugation.

This is really hard for me to be object (to myself) over as my Ex as he had an affair for most of our marriage and is now very happily married to his ex-OW. But his behaviour to me was emotionally abusive, and on occasions, physically. When I was preganant with our first, I would get up and walk to the bus to get to work (about half a mile so not far but it was during the winter), whilst he stayed in bed and drove to the same city an hour later. I had to wait for him after work even at 7 months.

When I tried to leave he broke my arm (it was an accident - he grabbed me very hard and pulled me), and he forced me to have sex with him for over a year (he told me he'd take the kids away if I didn't - I was far too naive not to fall for the whole conjugal rights thing). In the end I agreed to be the party to be divorced, and got away. He's done well as I left with the kids and nothing else (so he lives the high life whilst I struggle financially).

Looking at his life now, I appear to have been the problem and brought out the worst in him. I don't think this is common to other women though - I really was not the woman he wanted to be with.

Gay40, you say 'maybe I should keep quiet'. Yes, you should, because telling a woman she is stupid is not going to make her find the confidence to organise a new life and leave. Plenty of women know that their partners are bullies but they have nowhere to go, no money when they get their, and they haven't got the confidence to believe that they can pull a new life together. Telling women that they are stupid is useless, utterly useless and if what you're aiming to do is make some sort of stand for women who need to believe in themselves then you're failing miserably. What is coming accross is a smug belief in yourself and your own superiority. You'd never have been fooled! That's what we all thought. You think we are all stupid? Evidently you do.

None of the women on this thread are colluding with the "victimisation of women."

It is possible to pierce a woman's denial without telling her she is stupid or to smugly announce that you would have spotted the signs. How can you possibly know that? Have you gone out with the exes and husbands of all the women who have found themselves in this situation?

If a woman has been told she's stupid for years then one more voice chiming in to agree will just grind her down further.

Mathanxiety has one of the most incredibly astute understanding of human nature I've come accross on this board. If there's one thing that regularly amazes me actually it's the intelligence of the other mn-ers who have found themselves in this situation.

So don't cast us in the role of victim by calling us stupid. We're not and we know we're not and we know we weren't stupid. We know what we were up against". And, just to remind you, this thread was a question for those who have* experience of being in a bad relationship, so if you're happily ignorant then that's dandy. You go back to watering your petunias behind your white picket fence.

There are enough of us around who can offer real advice and support without throwing another "stupid" on to the heap of abuse.

ps

and my internal badge of honour is that unlike you Gay40 I know with absolute certainty that when I was ground down, verbally abused, emotionally abused and financially abused, I was strong enough to leave.

You can only ever guess at what you'd have spotted, where your line in the sand would have been, what you've have been strong enough to stand up to, how you'd have reacted....

so seriously, put 'stupid' in your crackpipe and smoke it