25 years together but can't take any more?

[BarbieGrows]

Erm, we met at a party, love at first sight, me 21, he 28. moved in together at 25, had first baby at 34, second at 36. Time passes as you keep busy!
So there's all this history, we are 'part of each other'. But there has always been conflict, starting with him going to the pub before coming to see me at 22, then me having to go to the pub to get his company as he didn't want to go out anywhere and do anything else (not as much as I had liked). There was hurt when arguments happened, of the emotional gut-wrenching kind. It's all a bit blurry to be honest - no physical violence, nothing technically abusive, just negativity. He drinks very rarely now and hardly ever goes out with anyone at all. He's happy that way though, not socially outcast, just prefers his own company.

And so things plodded on, up and down, in (mostly in) and out. So now we have beautiful children, home, a comfortable life but the misery is still there, occasionally lifted by a good conversation, a laugh, a constructive moment. But now the hurt lasts longer than it should, for days I don't want him to touch me. I have explained this pattern (for years now) but still it doesn't change, he nor me.

Splitting up is so complicated, I wonder whether we should move apart but stay together for a few nights a week? It would mean a move to the country but I think it could work as it will calm the arguing. We do appreciate each other a lot more when we've been away.

I tell him that the only reason I'm still with him is that I'm strong and can put up with it. He turns that into - 'yeah that says it all...', not 'oh sorry I didn't mean it. An example.

Anyway, all views appreciated, but please understand that after all this time it's not something I will be able to just walk away from.

Now why didn't I start this thread in the morning! Such bad timing.

You sound depressed.

Is counselling an option for you? It would clarify your thinking, and maybe end up with you happier (whether you can stay with him or not).

Been there done that, several times. He usually says they're quacks, last conversation was 'you find the next one then'.

I could class myself as depressed but I prefer to eliminate the cause from my enquiry before I take drugs. Also he says things like 'look there's something seriously wrong with you, are you sure you're alright in the head' (not when I'm being sad, after an argument).

It sounds like you have had many years of feeling sad. I'm not sure what to say. I think if you split up you should do it properly even if it is just for a trial period, can't see how staying together for a few days a week would help. Are you financially able to go it alone? Have you looked at places for you to stay? Reading these forums it seems it is always easier to advise someone to leave a relationship when they are suffering with domestic or emotional violence, your case is different. It could be that an end to your relationship could make you both much more happy, you do sound worn down.

"I tell him that the only reason I'm still with him is that I'm strong and can put up with it."

Your post is not very clear on most things, but that is a horrible thing to say to someone.

OK, he's right then, one of you has diagnosed me as depressed, the other has said I have said a horrible thing. Spidookly I say that to him because of the things I have to put up with, which you have to have to be tough for.

ebbandflow, yes that sums me up, worn down. I would be OK alone, but I think I am more afraid of loss than anything, losing someone that is so much a part of my life.

TBH OP I think the whole notion of staying with someone in a martyrish way, the way you are proposing is nuts.
The only reason you stay with him is because you're strong enough?

No The only reason you stay with him is that you don't have the strength to go and rebuild your life.
It takes far far more strength to leave a crap relationship and branch out on your own than to stay in one bemoaning your lot.
Sorry if that's harsh but you've got to stop lying to yourself.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/990129-After-many-years-together-who-has-still-got-that-39?pg=3
Thought this thread might be worth looking at for you.

Thanks e&f.

I say "Do what works". You most certainly should not go on to spend another 25 years slowly dying inside, and it doesn't sound as though he's too full of the joys of Spring either. There are no rules about how to do a relationship - norms, yes, but (as yet) no marriage police going round to make sure everyone does the same

I got the impression - perhaps wrongly? - that you have had some "what if ..." conversations and living half together could be a route to greater contentment for the pair of you. If so, go for it!

Hi just joined mumsnet and yours is the first thread that I read. I'm sorry to hear that this is so painful for you. Your list line "but please understand that after all this time it's not something I will be able to just walk away from" really moved me because I felt your deep love and perhaps disappointment for man that you feel very strongly for deep down but is unable to connect to you at a level that make you feel truly alive. Two things spring to mind that may help. first to use or find some good friends that you can talk to regularly about your situation who will not judge or try to fix you - just listen and allow you to work through what ever is happening for you at that moment. I hope that you have access to people like that and if you don't perhaps you could ask a friend or family member if they would be willing to engage with you on this basis. As for what your want specifically and you may be surprised and actually get it. Second, I watched for years as my partner became more and more not what I wanted. He was distant and isolated himself from both me and our children. I was very unhappy because there was no connection and I saw this as rejection so I reacted the way you describe. I knew I had to do something as I could see that we were both dying inside. So I managed to get him to agree to some coaching sessions and the transformation has saved our marriage. Turns out that he was deeply unhappy about his work etc - nothing to do with me or the kids and coaching really empowered him to see what could do to either accept or change things. Not sure if there is any chance your partner would be open to this but it is worth a try. Blessings

I meant counselling for you on your own. You sound very unhappy, and a counsellor might help you get to the bottom of why. The reason may be your partner - but for most people, the root cause of their unhappiness is in their childhood.

NQC is right: havesome counselling for yourself so you can decide whether your relationship is fixable or if it's run its course. IF the latter, the support of a counsellor will help you end the relationship as amicably as possible.

NQC, I have had counselling in the past a few times, essentially it points in the same direction each time, that the relationship and the way I am dealing with it is the problem. I know myself inside out really, big family, normal issues - but my relationship is now bigger than my history. I have been with my partner longer than I was with my family and I get on with my family well. My childhood has been analysed beyond belief as it's the first place you go to even in relationship counselling. It's as normal as anyone else's - it did however have an impact on my partner choices - not very choosy.

GB - thank you that sounds really positive, I have come to the conclusion that we are all under pressure from the marriage police or even the opposite, the single parent police. Both have fixed ideas. Do we have to be with someone 24/7 or not at all?

flippintired, you are right it takes a lot more strength to walk away. And that added 25 year element doesn't help. In many ways I don't want to feel cheated out of my life but I don't want him to feel that way either. We need to be able to look at the positives and take those away with us rather than look at the whole situation as a massive tragedy.

tcw - your idea about coaching is something I might consider. Basically I think getting any man into a room to bare his soul to a stranger is a bit like asking a woman to wee al fresco. It's a lot easier for one gender than another. Setting up something like coaching is probably going to be more attainable for him. This is a man who was born in the fifties and was clipped on the ear by his mum and belted at school - legally - so not going to take the soft and feminine option of talking therapy. Focusing on something like that is a good idea.

Sorry everyone I'm procrastinating so much on this. I have some close friends and am not isolated at all, I've bored most people with it at some stage and decided a while ago to stop whingeing and deal with this quietly. I do have a friend that has said that she won't come near him cos she thinks the way he speaks to me is disgusting... but she has only met him very few times and is a particularly feisty woman and hasn't done the 25 year thing. But she is right about the way he speaks, he doesn't notice it himself, but that is the root of all our problems, it hurts. I used to think I was just over-sensitive, depressed etc (as above) but actually I am just hurt. He's hurt as well, he honestly doesn't get it.

barbie, it's not a tragedy. I'm sure there are positives, many of them and you are what you are because of the time you have had. I hope my post didn't sound too harsh, it wasn't meant to be.
If you need to walk to away then that does not in any way nullify the 25 years you have both had together. But neither should you feel you have to carry on because you have already invested 25 of your life in this relationship.
What is best for both of you. Neither of you are happy.
I too am in a position where it is time to walk away.

Not quite 25 years, about 18 and 6 children later. The youngest has just turned 4, the oldest is 12. My relationship is about as rubbish as they come now but I don't regret having been in it, I don't regret one second of my life, good or bad, because the choices I have made have got me here to where I am now and I that's where I want to be.
I do not feel leaving is a waste of the last 18 years. It just is what it is. What would be a waste of my life would be to stay in a relationship that had, to all intents and purposes, finished

Please don't stay because you feel you should. Stay because you feel it would be the best thing or indeed leave because you feel it would be the best thing. Don't do anything if you can't do it for that reason.

flippintired I understand your name now, six children in eight years is quite some feat! Thank you for your wise words, you have been harsh but I can take it. I do think that it is not an all or nothing situation, there is adjustment that needs to be made both sides. Men love in a much stronger and blinder way than women (although it appears the opposite) so I don't want a sudden end as it could be very damaging. I am lucky because we could afford a home in the country and a flat where he works. We can take it from there I guess, see how things pan out. He will be fine without me, probably happier with the right person, same goes for me, but he needs to see that he will be fine, maybe then he will be able to let me go.
I'm sorry you are in the same boat - but I'm glad we understand each other, just looking at our shelf of CDs, jumbled together since the 80s, makes me think separating will be such hard hard work. I guess you have a similar situation.

You can love somebody because they have been in your life for so long.... but not be IN LOVE with them - which is why the all-or-nothing can seem such a big step because you don't want to cut them off completely, and of course the grass always looks greener! Counselling can be helpful - depends on the counsellor. Another approach might be to look at self-development because if you are happier in other things you can bring that to the relationship. When did you last do something that made your heart sing? I'm not being flippant - in similar situation myself (38 yrs together, 2 kids.... 3 if you count husband). There are often times in life when you think 'what if ' and that can relate to your history or future.

It sounds like you're grieving already barbie, grieving for your marriage. You also sound quite resigned about the way he speaks to you, that you accept it, but verbal abuse is like cancer to a relationship. You say you are very hurt - well, yes, after years of it. Do you give as good as you get? Verbal abuse is unbelievably painful - I have recently had it for 6 months from my adult son and it nearly destroyed me. Your OH sounds like an oaf from what you say, sort of spiteful (am I getting that right?), deliberately hurtful. Do you both hurt one another with your words?

I do wish people would understand the etiquette of long term relationships: that you are on your best behaviour and value and respect what you have. I'm not saying standing to attention like soldiers, but like you have a strad that is precious. Flinging hurtful words is not where it's at, fatally scars the fabric of a relationshp. Maybe do some research on verbal abuse? It is, as I said, tremendously painful and you die inside when you're on the end of it.

If you think a p/t marriage might be the answer then I'd say go for it, definitely. I have some friends - admittedly, no children in the marriage - who frequently live apart: they live in france, he comes to blighty for up to 3 months at a time, to give them both a break from the marriage. It is a very tempestuous marriage but they choose to keep it.

As for your CDs - you have to do all that shit when you move house - the prospect is worse than the reality imo. Ok, I understand that you're talking about the emotional cost and, yes, that's high - but the price you're paying, and have been paying for a long time, is also high. Too high?

You also talk about him tenderly, hoping he will land safely if you split. Up to a point you have to let him stand on his own two feet, he is not a child (and you are not his mother). I am not being harsh when I say that - of course you will feel tenderly towards someone you have loved for over 25 years and built a life with, will hope he is ok if you go your separate ways. I do wonder if you give yourself the same consideration tbh: you say you have stayed because you are 'strong enough' but you are as human as the next, and your marriage has taken its toll on you, that is clear, even from your short OP.

barbie - a few of the things you've said lead me to think you should take this quiz - it might be an eye opener - here

see what you think.

You've been with this dick for 25 years, which means that you spent quite a lot of time absorbing the message that marriages have to be worked at, that it is up to a woman to placate and please a man no matter how unreasonable he is,and that to be single is to be a failure. None of this is true. You are a valuable and worthwhile human being, and there is more to life than being some entitled, selfish dickhead's emotional punchbag.
He won't change, because he thinks, fundamentally, that you are not a human being, just a 'woman' which means you are somewhere between a domstic pet and a domestic appliance, and what you think and feel doesn;t really matter.