25 years together but can't take any more?

[BarbieGrows]

Erm, we met at a party, love at first sight, me 21, he 28. moved in together at 25, had first baby at 34, second at 36. Time passes as you keep busy!
So there's all this history, we are 'part of each other'. But there has always been conflict, starting with him going to the pub before coming to see me at 22, then me having to go to the pub to get his company as he didn't want to go out anywhere and do anything else (not as much as I had liked). There was hurt when arguments happened, of the emotional gut-wrenching kind. It's all a bit blurry to be honest - no physical violence, nothing technically abusive, just negativity. He drinks very rarely now and hardly ever goes out with anyone at all. He's happy that way though, not socially outcast, just prefers his own company.

And so things plodded on, up and down, in (mostly in) and out. So now we have beautiful children, home, a comfortable life but the misery is still there, occasionally lifted by a good conversation, a laugh, a constructive moment. But now the hurt lasts longer than it should, for days I don't want him to touch me. I have explained this pattern (for years now) but still it doesn't change, he nor me.

Splitting up is so complicated, I wonder whether we should move apart but stay together for a few nights a week? It would mean a move to the country but I think it could work as it will calm the arguing. We do appreciate each other a lot more when we've been away.

I tell him that the only reason I'm still with him is that I'm strong and can put up with it. He turns that into - 'yeah that says it all...', not 'oh sorry I didn't mean it. An example.

Anyway, all views appreciated, but please understand that after all this time it's not something I will be able to just walk away from.

Hi barbiegrows I hope your name is ironic and you don't feel you are a barbie!

I have been on these boards for two years now under various names. I was with my husband 28 years and am just approaching my silver wedding anniversary. In my case I was the one being verbally abusive and my husband was the sad one with depression. I had lost respect for him and was parenting him along with our DC for several years.

It took a series of cataclysmic events including me falling in love with someone and having a short affair and turning fifty before I woke up to reality. I was numb, emotionally dead and in denial about what was happening.

Long story short I found a BACP counsellor and got to the bottom of all the issues. We did 8 months of joint counselling then I decided to move out to a house down the road.

Seven months on he is happier, has some one new adoring him, and is muddling along running our home. I am happier, have not lost my temper since the day I left and am cautiously getting to know a lovely new man.

Friends have been sad but supportive. Family have been stunned and upset but loving.

What I am saying by relating my sorry tale is that you need to take time to think these unthinkable things and move very slowly. There are always solutions. CDs are outdated now and MP3 players are the way forward!

If you think living alone in a country cottage would work for you then start researching. Could you afford it? Where would you choose? Do you have all the skills you would need? Would you get a job?

My friend is 73 and married 50 years and has done what you are describing. Her husband comes for a weekend every 6 weeks and makes her miserable but in between she is bubbly upbeat and happier every month.

Be gently on yourself but make a plan and start slowly implementing it. If it feels wrong you can always change it. Life is too short to be miserable!

There is so much I love about your post, LHBTR, but this: My friend is 73 and married 50 years and has done what you are describing. Her husband comes for a weekend every 6 weeks and makes her miserable but in between she is bubbly upbeat and happier every month. gave me my first laugh of the day!
Sounds as thought the visits could do with ratcheding down a notch

What is he doing that is making you unhappy barbie? I couldn't quite work that out from your OP.

SCGB I like your rant! It did make me laugh but there is an element of truth and possibly the nub of the whole problem - the way he sees me. Essentially the furthest thing from his mind is how I feel. If how I feel doesn't agree with him he will find a way to accuse me of having a problem. Eg - I don't want sex, he persists until I have to push him away, keeps persisting til I have to get out of bed. Then mutters and rants about me angrily, that there's something wrong with me. It is this that I need to escape from. I've tried to explain this many times to him. No, I HAVE explained it to him millions of times, in basic plain english but it still keeps happening. I can't have sex if my feelings are being ignored, and then end up with a double whammy if I refuse. I feel I am defending myself constantly and am just to old for it now. It's been too long. Separating for part of the week would give me peace for a few days, maybe give him more perspective. Remember there would be loss with a complete split, and there still are sparks, good conversations, laughs, shared interests (and CDs).

Oh I dunno.

I don't want sex, he persists until I have to push him away, keeps persisting til I have to get out of bed. Eeeuww

What SGB said. With bells, whistles & knobs - oh, you've already got the knob!

LHBTR - wow - you left your child and your DP? Honest of you to admit to being verbally abusive. I don't think I do that - I occasionally use that as a weapon in fact - find myself saying "I could be really nasty to you if I like, say really horrible things, but I choose not to". But I do think that's sometimes language and culture - it's a lot easier for me to say the right thing than the wrong thing but he's not been brought up like that. Having said that his brother's the picture of decorum, hmmm.

But I think you're right, a split is an option, a real one. I think that the loss will be easier if it's a part time split and may change our habits, of course I have some deplorable traits, but probably exacerbated by having to defend myself all the time.

Ormirian, the defending isn't extreme, the behaviour from him that I can't deal with is stuff like being ignored, not listened to (having to repeat myself, having to say 'I was talking about something completely different', him just going ahead and doing stuff to the house without talking to me about it first, undermining)

...undermining when it comes to parenting and children. There are times when these little niggly things that he does have had a big impact (like telling me not to go to antenatal classes because it was raining!!!!!). Like giving dd chocolate puddings when she was overweight as a baby (has SEN) - had to get the dietitian to phone him at work. Or not protected the PC when he's in charge of it, exposing DCs. But who hasn't got bad habits, a bad attitude sometimes, does stupid indulgent things from time to time?

I can't however say that he doesn't to many many good things that many fathers would never do.

So I have been weighing up the two for many years now, the good and the bad, as with any statistics, they show the results you want them to. And now I'm listening to my feelings instead. At the same time have to be aware of my childrens feelings about moving too.

That second sentence doesn't make sense - explanation - he does a lot of stuff for us that is good. He has always worked very hard and does a lot of work on the house, does stuff for my DM etc etc. Very good with playing and doing stuff with the kids (in his own time of course). They adore him.

mumonthenet -
the emotional abuse quiz is a bit weird, he doesn't make me feel 'anxious, nervous or worried', he just makes me pissed off. When he behaves badly, I just get angry. But now I'm too tired to cope with it any more.

OK so he's a rapist who thinks it's OK to do things that are contradictory to medical instructions to his DC just to prove to you that your opinion is worthless?
Fucking hell, leave him now and take him for everything he's got. Really, this man is a total shitbag.

Well, whatever he is doing, he is making you very unhappy and doesn't seem to care about that

It's your life and doesn't belong to him. Would the ultimate ultimatum do any good? IE listen to me, respond to me, try to understand me, or I'll leave. It sounds as if he can't or won't change for anything less.

OK SGB, I get the message loud and clear. Leaving is easier said than done. And it's not all bad. Yes he's done some stupid things but so have I and I'm smarter than he is.

Orm, I have done the ultimatums, he can't/won't change as long as he convinces himself that it's not his problem. I'm hoping that if we live apart we will change some habits. It is time to split, but where to start after 25 years...

I think I need to make a plan. Someone said make lists and organise. That sounds achievable, I guess I need to start with a solicitor in case it goes pearshaped. We're not married.

Getting butterflies now. Good ones.

Look either go and get a new life or stay and stop complaining. He sounds like an abusive shit. You want to stay with him clearly. I don't understand why you have bothered to post. What do you want us to say to you?
You tell us about really nasty nasty things he does to you on a daily basis and then you say he's not that bad. Well he is that bad and you can't see it.

btw, the reason why I say that you want to stay with him is because despite what you have written here, the undertone is very much that you don't want to leave. I think you have become far too dependent on this abusive man, sadly.

hmmm I thought some advice about solicitors would help.

flippintired I'm very glad you're not a counsellor and I'd rather you didn't pretend to be mine actually. This is very hard for me. You sound just like my partner. I was just beginning to contemplate leaving. I should have known not to open up on here.

Well done for coming back, Barbie :) There are lots of women here who've been resigned to - and shaped by - marriages like yours, and who understand your dilemma. It's not easy.

As I also think your husband sounds like more of a twunt the more I hear about him, I hope you will move forward and seek a way of life that's more healthy and constructive for you. I understand you may have to do it in stages - and am urging you to go see a solicitor! You'll need to know what kind of ownership you have on your house - there are different kinds of shared ownership - it'll be on your deeds, or you can phone the Land Registry for that info. You'll also need documents for any businesses and investments you own jointly. If you have a joint account, take some money out before making any decisive steps.

Look for a 'family law' solicitor, but clarify that you're not married and the split is unlikely to be amicable (plainly we all hope it will be, but it's best to find out your worst-case facts first!) You'd probably also benefit from a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau.

Keep going :)

barbie, sorry you feel that way, but this is an open forum and you asked for opinions. I'm not pretending to be your counsellor.
It's not easy to help you in anyway when you keep telling us dreadful things your dh is doing and then finding reasons why he's not that bad.
If he's bad than find ways to separate from him. I you think he's not that bad really then find ways to stay with him.

Barbie....

It most certainly is hard to contemplate leaving someone you've been with for 25 years. Whether a dp is just a bore, or an emotional bully, or a violent thug.....it is very, very, very difficult to get the mindset to leave. These things are not black and white.

I still think that you should learn a little about emotional abuse, because although your dp may not fall into any particular "category", I think you could learn a lot about your own role in the relationship....where your responsibilities lie - and where they don't lie. EA (or any behaviours within that "family" is extremely difficult to define or recognise.

Every post of yours contains comments of his along the lines of...."there must be something wrong with you". This is a red flag for EA.

As you have said, he never apologises for hurting you. You try to explain you feel hurt by his comments - he turns it round to make that your fault. Another EA red flag. He never validates your feelings does he?

The friend who says she won't go near him because of the way he speaks to you? This woman has witnessed you being emotionally abused. An obvious red flag.

People who are emotionally abused always try to normalise it....he's had a bad day, a difficult childhood, I'm not perfect either. I am not criticising you here....it is completely normal to try to normalise it. As you say yourself: you have normal good conversations, a laugh, things in common - it's easy to try to play down the parts where you feel like you've been punched in the stomach. In fact, being punched in the stomach by your partner is easier in a way....there's a label for that - domestic violence. Emotional abuse is far, far harder to recognise, explain, and deal with.

Thanks mumonthenet that is helpful, I think you understand, I think I understand but will it take 25 years to un-normalise this? This has been going on so long, we've also seen enough counsellors but it has never been picked up as EA. Thanks for taking the time. I value all your views but some of you have made me feel like a bit of an idiot and that just gets my back up. I still think this move may help in that it will give us a way of going in different directions. Confronting this head on will leave a lot of fallout.

No, it won't take 25 years. I'm not altogether sorted yet, but I wouldn't put up with any of that crap now - and I don't. It's 9 years since my divorce; I started therapy a year before that, when the split happened.

Whichever directions you choose, now or later, may I suggest your mental health will benefit from some good, sustained assertiveness work? Here's a link to my favourite assertiveness primer. I think you would also benefit from learning about Complex PTSD, the 'emotional' variety of shell shock. Pete Walker's site is geared mainly towards those recovering from parental abuse but substitute 'husband' for 'parent' and it will make sense!

You are worth it, you know :)

Thanks gb, the thing is I met him when I was 21, I was worlds away, also had issues at the time about affection / touch, also on meds for neurological condition so probably a bit doped up. And then as the years go on and the people around you seem to accept your relationship the way it is, you have kids, move in together all hell can become normal. He's gone a bit quiet about it all, (the move). We have to make plans, and as usual he's not listening until I pin him down at which point he decides to get up and go and make coffee. It's so hard to get his attention.

Anyway, I have realised that this 'move' idea is probably my way out. Technically I should just eject him from the premises and claim emotional abuse but that would create endless fallout. The seed of selling up has been planted in his brain now and he seems positive about it. He does work bloody hard and always has done and tbh I'm a bit of a reluctant housewife so he's getting a raw deal. But I'm NOT excusing his behaviour, I never have, I have always fought my ground and refused to accept it as normal.

I'm making my plans regardless anyway.

Just looked at your links GB.

The C-PTSD is interesting, there was definitely trauma in the early days, in the form of hurt, in some ways I'm past that but I'm probably just holding myself together for the kids sake.

In terms of counselling I've been through some complete wasters from Relate, and others seem to want to put me on antidepressants despite me repeating 'if there's any depression it's a symptom of something else and I'm here to deal with the cause and not the symptom'.

I'm fairly aware of how things have panned out in my life, why I am like I am, there's nothing dramatic in my past, but probably a bit of separation anxiety which was never dealt with and lack of maternal physical affection, something I'm getting over. I'm also aware that my mother had a similar relationship with my father - of course I never saw how it all started, but htey were togther for 60 years. But patterns you can learn from.

His life too has been affected by stuff, which I can see, and he's changed too. I can make of this all I want to, but I see my emotional history quite clearly. But OH has over the years very much complicated and confused things and essentially I have never been 'myself', always ending up fitting in with his plans. Ironically he accused me of holding him back recently! I would have followed him to the ends of the earth many years ago.

Through all this I have actually kept myself intact, I very much know who I am and what I want - possibly a change of meds helped this,10 years ago. But also, falling in with a good support network after having children. I can be grateful to my children as well, my need to ensure they didn't get smothered by him or watch me getting smothered meant I fought to get out.

They've seen a fair amount of conflict but they've never seen me accept abusive behaviour

I am assertive, I very much know who I am, I also know my faults (being a bit over-assertive when there is disagreement is one).

First counselling appointment coming up soon.
Not sure he wants to come, being evasive as usual. He has the option and the counsellor is a male solution-focussed one - what more can I do?