The Brave Babes Carry On Past The Easter Booze Offers.

[NotTheMessiahJustMouseface]

Hello,

I'm Mouse, well, I am usually!

Welcome to the Brave Babes Bus.

This is a journey of sobriety, started almost a year ago by the wonderful jesuswhatnext. So why not come aboard and find a seat. There's heaps of support on here whether you are sober, drinking or somewhere in the middle.

And, for those of you who want a bit of history, here are the Previous Threads

Morning
Isinde - today is day two for me.
Early days I know.
I hope everyone is feeling well today - today I won't be drinking.

Morning lovely ones,

Hello mrsrochester well done, the first few days are very hard, and at your usual time it actually feels quite weird, but it passes!

Isindie well done for getting back on track, although I have slipped up (many a time), I do feel that my basic mindset has changed quite quite considerably. How are the gorgeous DT's today?

Thank you for all your thoughts on DC's dinner. We have laid down some ground rules, and I have said that I'm giving my neighbour my number, and also giving DC neighbours number, just in case. It's a trust thing, I guess (I may be very, very wrong ).
We will be about 15 minutes away, DH has booked us into a hotel, a room with a four poster bed, and jacuzzi!, he thought it would be a nice break for us .

No pressure there then!!!!!!!

I'm off to college now.
Speak later
xxxx

A four poster bed and a jacuzzi? Oh thurso I feel your pain. Brace yourself girl, scud missile incoming

Thurso

At 18 I was probably at my most responsible sex- and drink-wise; certainly I was already active in both and had therefore started to learn a modicum of distance. i regularly had sex at home (mum went to bingo a lot ...) but always in my own bed, as that seemed the "proper" thing to do. Certainly wouldn't have done it in SOMEONE ELSE'S PARENTS' BED!

In other words, I'm afraid I can't give you any reassurance that sex and drinking will not take place; but I would imagine that both will happen in a responsible, grown-up way.

Don't know if that's what you want to hear exactly ...

"I dont mind heterosexuals as long as they are not so blatent"

I just really laughed out loud at that^ :D

Re: being told not to take prescribed medicines by an AA sponsor.
Miflaw is correct that there is an organisation in the UK that wants to highlight and stop such dangerous advice. Please contact them and tell them that this is going on locally. I know that Changeling had the strength to ignore her sponsor's 'advice' but aacultwatch want to be informed, to stop this. They are trying to keep track of such rogue elements

[email protected]

Hey All

Am still about, just keeping a low profile at the moment.
Real life keeps getting in the way

Glad that life is relatively normal at the moment, kids are back at school. I am back at work.

Am trying to keep on top of all the housework, gardening etc. I had forgotten how much work a single parent can be at times!! However - still better than being in a miserable relationship.

Glad to see some new babes on the bus, and hope that you are all getting on fine. Just remember ODAAT!!

Morning Babes.

thurso - maybe you should consider taking a flame-proof nightie and Women's Weekly?

I hope you have a good night, maybe, just maybe, you'll enjoy yourself. Go with an open mind, no expectations and tell DH the same. Night in a four poster bed does NOT automatically lead to him getting his wicked way with you!

MrsR - well done on getting through last night!

IsinDe -

Bafana, lovely to "see" you!!

I'm with you on the hard work/single parent thing - sometimes I get so fed up of doing EVERYTHING on my own. I don't have any practical or emotional support - it's very wearing at times. But I agree, so much better than being in a miserable realtionship. Glad to hear you're doing well xx

"AA people - last night I was sat just before a meeting started and young woman (mid twenties at a guess - not that it's particularly relevant) bounced into the room, plonked herself in the seat next to me and immediately got her phone out and wanted my number. Now, I understand that having lots of numbers to call if you need to is part of the ethos, but I really felt that me and this woman would have nothing in common (apart from the alcoholism ). She was soooo manic. I gave it to her because I couldn't think of a way out of it - she immediately called my phone so I had her number too. It felt like a bit of an invasion of privacy tbh, but I feel guilty that it's entirely likely that if she ever does call that I will reject the call."

golly

AA attempts to address alcoholism.

Sadly, it can't cure being a wee bit mental.

And a lot of us are so keen to make AA work that we initially become "AA nazis" before "mellowing" later.

and some people are just not our type - in which case, we can just thank God (or dog, or whatever) that at least we are meeting them when they are sober rather than pissed to the wide.

If you make a compromise, whereby you try not to think too badly of this woman, and promise yourself that, if ever she phones you actually in need (voice message, "please call me back or I know i'll drink" for example) rather than just to chat about the Steps, then I don't think it makes you a bad person at all.

Progress not perfection etc ...

"I tried AA for a couple of months but have decided it is not for me, I may just have chosen the wrong people to speak to but it began to feel a little 'cult-ish'. the last straw came when I was advised to stop taking my mental health medicine - of which i am on a fair bit (i'm mad me ) as I'm really not depressed just an alcoholic. Yes, i probably AM an alcoholic but I also need mood stabilising drugs...."

My advice on this - and it IS only advice - is, if you have been honest with your doctor, both about the fact you have a drink problem and the true nature and extent of whatever illness you have, and (s)he prescribes medication; then, if anyone later tells you not to take the medication, tell them to fuck off.

I say this is my opinion, but of course AA (as in, what is written in the official literature, not what some prick in a meeting says) fully agrees with me. somewhere in the Book it specifically says that we are notdoctors and should not presume to know better than them; and that following their advice is exactly the right thing to do. Feel absolutely at ease to point this out to someone who tells you not to take medication and suggest that, instead of going round meetings dishing out unwanted advice, they return to the Big Book and read it properly (not that you have to read or believe anything to be in AA - but types like this ALWAYS believe they are so much on "The Programme" they deserve a fucking medal and/or the status of an alcoholic Gandhi).

Chattex's advice about Cultwatch is basically sound, although it would depend whether the group as a whole was preaching this sort of bollocks or whether it was one or two lone imbeciles - in AA, just like outside it, no one can prevent nutters from talking shit whenever there is silence.

Just realised that, in the context, "nutters" was perhaps a poor choice of word ...

What I meant to say is that, in AA, I took a course of anti-depressants. I found them very helpful. If anyone was to challenge me on this I would say that (A) they have a poor understanding of the literature (B) as I did not drink during that time nor (to date) for over six years afterwards (one day at a time) the immediate danger to my sobriety would seem to have passed ...

Hello all,

just back from college, last assignment signed off, am 3/4 of the way there, Yaay .
So, I am going to give myself an afternoon off, after I've hung out the washing!, and finish my non worthy book, instead of starting the worthy ones I am supposed to be reading!

Ma and Inde I know you were joking, but you have hit the nail on the head, so to speak .
What is DH thinking of? "In your face" doesn't even reach it. I will be so nervous about what is going on at my house, I can't cope with the "it's all lovely" in the thurso relationship as well. I would quite like to take a sleeping bag 2 minutes away, on the beach!

Miflaw I don't think you were at your most responsible, drink and sex wise at 18, surely more together now, than you were then?
I wonder if I'm projecting too much, actually. When I was 18, in the (very ) late 70's, parties would involve lots of snogging, a room where those who wanted to, smoked unusual substances, and people throwing up in hedges!
My DC and his friends do seem so much more sober, sophisticated and serious (alliteration prize!) than I was. DC2 was incredibly offended last night, when I said that I would make the chocolate brownies that he has planned for pudding.
In the end I admitted that I thought they might add a secret ingredient, that I couldn't be responsible for.

DH has absolved himself from all of this, because he doesn't think it will happen. This from someone who told my DC1 at 10 years old that the machine in the gents, was for chewing gum . I do all the talking to the boys, and I don't think that's a great thing, really.

Off to do the washing, sorry for the rant!
xxxx

"Miflaw I don't think you were at your most responsible, drink and sex wise at 18, surely more together now, than you were then?"

Now, yes.

But from 18 to 28 was frankly downhill all the way.

It doesn't sound like a 'random prick'; Changeling was advised to stop taking medication by her 'sponsor'. Who's qualification will have been membership of AA.

And she was also told, by her sponsor, that she would drink if she left AA.

Exactly the sort of thing the good guys at cultwatch want to hear about.

Because UKAA is completely different from USAA. And Changeling's narrow escape should be made known to 'the guys'. No?

Miflaw you're a sweetheart .

Isinde Bravo, my girl !

folks?

well said isinde

(and thats from someone who is "non-aa")

isindie well, we heteros are just so in your face!
Have only just realised that Miflaws comments about having safe sex in someone else's bed were directed at Thurso's teens, not at Thurso and mr Thurso in their hotel!!! I was totally
Thurso take a couple of sleeping pills that will take the edge of the DCs possibly having sex, and DH almost certainly wanting to have sex. Either way you can sleep through it
I'm joking, but my stomach has sunk on your behalf........

Chattex

A sponsor is just another member that someone has asked for help. He or she has no rank or particular importance in AA except insofar as someone has endorsed them by asking for that help. So, yes, I stand by the claim that this person is a random prick. It just so happens that, unfortunately for Changeling, she had asked this particular random prick to give her advice, a remit which that random prick then abused.

If you look at the cultwatch website you will see that they are concerned with the case of a very few whole groups (mainly in the West Country and some areas of London) who have become what is sometimes called "Primary Purpose." In practice, they are saying that there is a right way of doing AA and putting various requirements on membership.

The vast majority of us in AA think this is wrong and want no part of it; Cultwatch is merely acting on those feelings.

They are unlikely to want to hear about individuals because their whole premise is that each individual practises AA as (s)he sees fit; there are no rules. if that means letting a few random pricks remain random pricks at large, so be it; the majority of AA members are on hand to counter the advice of such individuals.

There is also a vast practical problem in that AA members are anonymous (hence the name.) Suppose Cultwatch wanted to criticse me; what would they say? "Watch out for that Sean from London; you'll easily spot him, he's got dark hair and he normally wears trousers." Groups, on the other hand, obviously have a fixed meeting place and so can be identified/"named and shamed" to other AA members without breaking anyone's anonymity.

I have to say, Chattex, for someone who seems keen to highlight the flaws of AA (which do exist, as you would expect in an organisation with no rules, run by alcoholics and for alcoholics) you appear to know very little first-hand about AA. But I am happy to help in any way I can.

To put it another way ...

Imagine I am, for want of a better word, a nut job who nevertheless looks normal to the untrained eye.

And I join AA and I get sober.

Because I am a nut job I tend to talk a lot in meetings; and I impress a newcomer to the extent that (s)he thinks I can help.

(S)he asks me to sponsor them.

Because I am a nut job, of course I say yes.

I then dispense bollocks to that person for as long as (s)he will listen.

What do you expect to happen if you report me to AA, be it via Cultwatch, The General Service Office in York, or getting my name chiselled onto the Naughty List on the back of founder member Bill Wilson's gravestone?

They can't throw me out; I have "a desire to stop drinking" which is the only requirement for membership.

They can't stop me sponsoring anyone; remember, the newcomer sought me out, not vice versa.

They could ask me to change; but, as a nut job, I probably won't.

You certainly can't identify me, even if you wanted to, because you don't know my surname.

All you can do is what we all do, all the time; you trust the 99% of sane members of AA to take the newcomer aside and say, "be careful of listening too much to Sean; he looks normal but is, in fact, a nut job."

isindie - My views - I was terrified too when I started going to AA, and i went regularly from feb until now (not that long I know but long enough to get my own feel for it) and became a bit of a 'nazi' I guess at the start. it did seem amazing! I also met some lovely people, but I just didn't want to or feel able to do the steps, nor be subjected to the book and told that it is the only way to go etc, which everyone seemed to be advocating. I was totally honest with my doctor about my drinking about my other illness - have been 'mad' for years and on anti-d's for years too, and they do make me better - I'm positive the alcohol was making me worse and when I stopped drinking I did and still do, feel loads better mentally. Perhaps The problem was me I'm going through a really hard time and felt that AA wasn't the right place - probably I do need counselling about other things, I've had it in the past but will look into it again - obviously AA is all about not drinking so not the place to talk about other stuff really, as all I was told by various members, including my sponsor was that I was mentally unwell because of alcohol and nothing else (just my experience with the groups i went to). I'm looking into 'Rational Recovery' now, a different way - I'm also looking into getting out and about and not obsessing about not drinking and to me, being with ex drinkers who talk about their drinking pasts wasn't helpful! It's easy to be swayed either one way (AA is the only way) or another (The Orange Papers etc) I think alcoholics are very vulnerable and scared people a lot of the time and we must all be careful not to go to extremes either way. We all find our own path and i can only talk about my experiences as can we all. If anything, being told I'll not stay sober without their help has made me even more determined to do it!

Talking of extreme behaviour, I have applied for a job in Australia today - think I'd better take my pills {grin}!!